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Looking for feedback on floor plan

Posted by eldiba (My Page) on
Sat, Feb 9, 13 at 15:32

After lurking around for a while, I'm finally ready to jump in with my first post. We are looking at a complete remodel of our 1970s grandma kitchen (no more stylin' blue and pink flower basket wallpaper, warped plywood cabs, or faux brick lino -- I can't wait!).

Currently, it's just my partner, our dog, and I; but this is a long-term home so we are trying to plan for possible expansions of our human and furred family. Overall, our goal is to design a space in which both of us can cook at the same time. Other than that, our layout wants are pretty basic:
- space for small broom cupboard
- counter space beside both fridge and stove
- add DW
- maximize use of current water and stove hookups.
- counter space/storage for small appliances used often: coffee maker, espresso machine, toaster oven, toaster, and slow cooker

We do not have $ to move any walls and have 3 entryways and a chimney to work around (help!). We do not need any eat-in space in the kitchen.

This is what we have come up with so far. Feedback would be greatly appreciated. I've lived with a non-functional kitchen for so long, I hardly know what to look for in a good one.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Looking for feedback on floor plan

Can you post the rest of the layout of the house? I'm thinking if you can find a way to access the pantry from an adjacent space that it would be worthwhile to get the extra counter space in the kitchen. Right now, I'd prefer to err on the side of safety and split the cabinet next to the range so as to have landing space on both sides. Especially with plans for future small ones, a range next to any doorway is a bad idea.


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RE: Looking for feedback on floor plan

I like your idea for the stove. This is the way things are currently laid out, with a broader view of the rest of the house. Unfortunately, we can't move the door to the pantry as it has a bedroom on one side and an exterior wall on the other.

One thing I am concerned about in the proposed layout is the placement of the fridge in a corner. I don't know if that would be an issue in terms of opening the door.

This post was edited by eldiba on Sat, Feb 9, 13 at 21:49


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RE: Looking for feedback on floor plan

I take that back -- just found a bunch of posts on broom cupboards and corners and fridges. This place just keeps on amazing me


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RE: Looking for feedback on floor plan

Hi Eldiba,

I set your space up in the IKEA 3D planner. IKEA is a high-value option. If you don't like their door styles, you can buy their boxes, drawers and hardware and use a 3rd party for the doors, drawer fronts and cover panels. Several kitchens here that did:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0113171920861.html
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg1119141331605.html?53
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg1212153726876.html

I was concerned not only about your refrigerator not opening, but about crossing traffic between your sink and stove. Imagine a pot of pasta that just has to be drained when dogs, cats, toddlers among others are passing through. So I put the sink and stove on the same side of the room.

Lots of trade-offs in this small space. It would be nice not to have the dishwasher between sink and stove, but also good to have space to stand between it's open door and the sink. Nice to have landing space on both sides of the stove, but nice to have a nice-sized prep space and handy drawers between sink and stove. I put the sink in a blind corner cabinet - you can use any size sink you want.

The drawers next to the fridge would be a good spot for your appliances.

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Here is a link that might be useful: IKEA 3D Planner - link good for 5 days


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RE: Looking for feedback on floor plan

How big is the pantry? What's in there now? How do you use it?

What's in the foyer where the china cupboard is?

Pictures are good, but quick sketches are also fine.

I'm looking for ways to push your functional space out into the areas, by leaving the wall intact (if load bearing) but maybe creating pocket openings into which stuff can be recessed.

Diagonal sinks, IMO, use up much more space than they save. A good-sized,, but not ginormous single bowl may be the best option in a small kitchen

Do you need to have all the small appliances out on a daily basis? Perhaps some can live in the pantry.

Have you considered making your counters and cabs deeper than normal (30" instead of 24") to get more countertop and cab space. Both options are a bit more costly but in your case, which such a small kitchen (and few cabs and modest amount of countertop surface - which is priced per square foot) it might be a very cost-effective upgrade. Search for references here and google 30" deep counters for more info. It also allows regular depth fridges to be tucked in a bit more resulting in a more counter-depth look without the extra cost, or loss of space, for a true counter-depth model.

Fridges can't be installed slap against a wall as that will (if hinged on the wall side) interfere with the door opening fully and access to the hinge-side crisper drawer.

Have you considered a smaller range (24 or 27")? In small kitchens every inch counts and for the same number of burners you have less space "wasted" in the middle of the cooking top itself. Ovens are smaller, though that may not be an issue.

I was wondering if you had considered swapping the range and fridge locations. Put a narrow tall cab (could be the broom closet) beside the fridge against the currently proposed broom closet cupboard (which could be used for something else.) HAve a counter on the pantry entrance side of the fridge. Prevents having a cramped, slot of counter space between fridge side and chimney wall.

On the exterior (sink) wall have a narrow-ish cupboard against the living room wall (to keep the range from being against a wall and give pot handles a bit of elbow space, especially if you consider a 24" range), the range, counter/cab, then the sink under the window and an 18" DW against the foyer wall.

Moving the range to the exterior wall would make ventilation easier (and better and cheaper) and you could get rid of the OTR MW/fan.

I am really interested in the pantry space as I think therein lies some useful solutions to your pretty tight space. Maybe the wall and doorway into the pantry can be completely eliminated and that space incorporated into the kitchen proper.

A very useful tool is to sketch proposed options on graph paper, allows for easy sizing of potential items. Much easier to work with when doodling around than a computer drawing. It's the "what-ifs" stage, when all things are on the table that some of the best solutions appear. At the planning stage don't rule anything out (e.g.can't move electrical service for range, too expensive). While any one thing may be costly the expense in one are that solves another problem sometimes balances things out. Things can also be done in stages, as well, when there are budgetary restraints. And don't think that even the priciest/biggest of kitchens don't also have both space and budget issues, cause they do. Just different ones.

Also are the openings you have measured for the doorways actual openings, or the dimensions including trim on either side. Those are very wide openings and you might be able to harvest a few very-needed inches from each - assuming you don't have any need for universal design, or wheel chair access at the moment. (The actual openings in the doors in my house vary between 29-31", I even have a pantry door that was only 24" wide, but we had to change it to get a freezer in that room.) Just looking at all the options you may have.

HTH

L.


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RE: Looking for feedback on floor plan ...

Well, I see I was so long-winded that tbb made and posted a visual of what I was nattering on about. Except that for the reasons I mentioned above I would move the fridge towards the chimney and put the counter on the pantry entrance side. (You would need to sacrifice a few inches of counter to allow for doorswing issues, but overall it makes the whole counter more workable as you can access it from two sides, if necessary, instead of just from the font. It also provides a nice open look.

Otherwise, I'm proposing what tbb said (and even better, managed to draw up!), more or less.

L.


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RE: Looking for feedback on floor plan

My fridge is currently installed in a corner, opening towards the corner (top freezer). The door does not open completely and I can't pull the crisper drawer completely forward. In normal everyday use, this isn't a problem. However, I recently dropped a glass bottle that shattered and I had to remove two shelves and both crisper drawers. It was Not Very Much Fun. (I did manage to get everything out and back in; it was just a struggle.) I'd like to build a 6" pantry pullout and install it between the wall and fridge; it would provide storage space that I could access easilyand allow the fridge door to open completely.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cabinet DIY completed and tutorial


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RE: Looking for feedback on floor plan

Wow, Artichokey! A lesson in the utility of a pullout.

Your house might be better off if the pantry became a bedroom closet and that space in your kitchen outfitted with an efficient pantry.

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RE: Looking for feedback on floor plan

Thanks tbb; looks like a great app. Partner and I both use the stove at the same time so we'd need to make space for cabs b/w stove and wall. Wouldn't leave space for drawers b/w stove and DW but maybe that's okay? I've also been looking at creating a narrow broom cupboard next to the fridge just like Artichokey posted.

Lirio, thanks for all the questions -- I've been going in circles so fresh eyes are much appreciated.

Door openings in the drawings include the width of the trim.

I don't have the measurements of the pantry here with me, but in the long run we are actually looking to absorb that space for the bedroom so we don't really want to predicate our kitchen on anything involving that space. The foyer though is something that we've thought about trying to use more efficiently. It accesses the back door and basement stairs and is currently home to a china/recycling/shopping bag cupboard, coat rack, shoe rack, and an oversized chair belonging to our furry friend. When I get back I'll take measurements and see what you all think.

We use toaster, toaster oven, and coffee maker regularly and would like counter top storage for them in the kitchen proper. Perhaps the espresso maker and slow cooker could eventually find a home in the foyer but I'd rather find cabinet storage for them inside the kitchen if possible -- they're used a lot too. Deep counters sounds like it might be worth the investment. We definitely consider our small space a benefit when it comes to paying a little bit more for upgrades we wouldn't be able to afford if our footprint were bigger.


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RE: Looking for feedback on floor plan

Oh wow tbb you are fast. So maybe we do extra deep counters on the fridge wall l in that last layout. Lots to mull over tonight.


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RE: Looking for feedback on floor plan

Here's what I've come up with since getting back home. Still not sure if I like the diagonal corner sink or a blind corner sink cab.

On the diagonal, we would have 21" of counter space to right of sink (+ triangle), and ~40" to left of sink (+ triangle). Drawers would be 21" to right of sink and <17" to left of sink.

With a blind corner, we'd have 36" counter to right of sink (+ corner) and 24" to left of sink. In this set-up, what is the minimum amount of space I would need to leave to access the blind corner through the adjoining cabinet? Also, this seems to leave a pretty tight space between the range and the sink.


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