Still working on this...I'm also studying for an exam, so it's taking longer than I had planned...but I haven't forgotten you!

Others are welcome to chime in as well!

Buehl- No problem. What kind of exam are you taking?

Project Management Professional (PMP).

That sounds impressive! Good luck with your exam :)

Lavender_Lass,

This is tangential to the kitchen question, but I was wondering about the access to the screened deck.

How do you forsee the screened deck being used, and by whom?

If it is mostly for private use then it would seem more convenient and cozy to have direct access from the master suite.

If it is more for entertaining, then do you really want the arrival/transition path to the deck to be through the service areas of the pantry and mudroom?

I think the study of the gradations of public to private areas is one of the most important, and least considered, things in desgining a house. Having a well-thought through transition is key to having a house seem organically right.

There's a really good book that teaches about this (and many other crucial areas to consider when planning a house)called A Pattern Language by Christopher Alexander, et al. It's fiendshly expensive ($60-75), so get it from your library. The book takes a bit of effort to understand how to use it, but it contains such a richness of ideas it's worth the effort. I highly recommend it. I have my own much-read copy, but finally bought an old battered one to loan to friends because it was so hard to get it back from borrowers when I needed it.

Also you have now got a greenhouse on what I infer is the west side of the building (You noted kithcen table goes "north to south"). Is your building sited on perfect compass points, or slightly cocked one way on another. Slight differences will make a huge difference in the greenhouse conditions. I believe you are in the PNW, right? If you're building's n/s axis is actually, say more nne/ssw, that would put your greenhouse on a very cold, dark side. If, conversely, the axis is more nnw/sse, then you may find that the greenhouse is unpleasantly hot during the summer months, adding tremendously to your cooling needs. (I ask this as someone who has worked many years in, and owned, grennhouses from residential ones to commerical ranges. Many people don't realize how critical greenhouse siting is and just think of how nice it might be to have one stuck on the house.)

Also I would consider swapping the powder room toilet and sink positions, both for aesthetic reasons (males stand facing a toilet to pee and you have a window over the toilet) and practicallity of making sure you don't have water service and drains on an exterior wall. Sinks are easier to have crooked (angled) connections than toilets which are best drained vertically, for obvious reasons. Combining the PR drains and master bath drains on back to back walls will be more economical and mean fewer drain vent stacks.

Also, could you provide exact dimensions? I know you have noted room dimensions, but those are almost entirely in whole feet, which are so rarely exactly an actual whole foot that they seem to be more guess-timates. Most of us have to juggle the odd 4 or 7 inches, not to mention fractions of inches. These not-whole-feet dimensions can make or break a plan when confronted with real life. I've tried blowing up your plan and counting the faint lines on the woodfloor design, but those are obviously not to scale.

It will really help us to help you!

Also, how are you planning to vent your cooktop in its present position? What's above where it is for the vent path to go through?

Do you plan to have a door from the front hallway to kitchen; which way would it swing and where would it rest when open? (Having a closeable door is a good emergency/safety precaution with your woodstove in case of backdraft or other malfunction. It might keep smoke damage to a minimum in the rest of house.)

These details may seem tedious when you're still in the kitchen or reno fantasy stage. But if you want to create a plan that really works, then you must take the trouble over them, right from the start.

L

L-L,

I was studying your plan more closely and some other suggestions came to mind:

You may be in the enviable position (pending exact measurements for confirmation) to have your counters be 30" deep, rather the regular 24", because of the "absent" wall on the DR side of your island. This is a huge gain in work and storage space, and has the added value that regular-sized fridges fit along the counter edge with less bump out, meaning less need to purchase built-in cab depth fridges. Regular ones (which are generally cheaper) will do the trick. I think the 30" counter thing costs not all that much more than a 24" - certainly not as much as the improved space and functionality gained. You have the option of going ahead and getting 30" deep cabs -which will increase the costs - or just going with furred-out regular cabs with the deeper counter on top.

Another good reason to extend your counters out to 30" is that you could use the side wall of the ovens as the resting space for an open door to the hallway. Side oven cabs are a bit boring to look at anyway, so a pretty paneled door would not only stack there handily, but be decorative as well, without the expense of an expensive tall cab decorative side panel.

Re DW at corner of counter L: don't forget to plan to have the DW set a few inches to the left of the intersection so the door can drop down without banging into the handles of the cabs on the other leg. Also think about what you might be storing in the corner space (super susan?) You will not be able to unload the DW directly into there, so stuff in the corner should not be anything DW-washable (and also above in the wall cabs, which would be unreachable when the DW was open). Otherwise you'd have to unload to the counter, shut the DW door and carry on with putting stuff away. Little considerations like that can make a good plan succeed spectacularly or fail.

Have you thought about where you'd store your dishes and flatware that might be DW'ed? Perhaps in end-opening cabs in the island that open towards the sink. Then you could stand at the DW and pull out those drawers and stow stuff without moving. And they'd be accessible for setting the table in the DR, too.

I've found that carefully thinking through all the uses and processes going on in a kitchen yields great dividends - and avoids designer-created bottlenecks. This is something only you can do, for yourself, since only you know exactly how you use the stuff in your kitchen.

Re the little stub wall sticking out behind the uppermost chair in w/s area. It looks like the sight line from the doorway from the hall will just about bisect the uppermost end of the wall; in other words the centerline of the doorway will face directly at the end of the wall. It will look better if the wall could be carried up (towards top of drawing) enough (looks like 12-18" inches - need to make those exact measurements ...!) so the what you see as you enter is the wall, not the edge of the wall. It will also make sitting in that chair more relaxed to have a wall behind the whole back of the chair. It will look and feel less precariously parked.

Also how are you venting your dryer? Down through the floor and out by the hot tub position? (not ideal)
Do you have to have a window for the PR? Or could you move than to right angles and put it against the sink wall? I see you have some kind of an internal window there - not sure why a view of the laundry room area and PR door merits a window. If the PR was moved to back up sink wall (co-loating drain and water services), I believe you could get a washer and dryer (with dryer in where the PR is now, or even along the existing desk counter run under the window. That way the dryer could vent directly, the washer could share a drain vent with the toilet in the masterbath. And you'd have a lovely window and counter run for folding. And avoid having the awkward little window that's presently over the PR toilet.

Re door to LR from hallway: is it to be an open space, or have doors? If doors, where would they be when open? I'd consider have the opening be narrower, and perhaps closed by a pair of glazed french doors folded back into the LR when open. I'd run the little wall on the bottom left corner of the LR upwards some because it will feel better if the entrance from the vestible doesn't catapult you directly into the LR. It's OK if it doesn't match the opening to the Kitch; you could center the door opening (of a pair of french doors) on the newel post for a pretty view from the LR. Having the wall be longer would give you a nice space for a picture, or a little corner chair, or a long case clock. As it is, it's too small to gracefully frame something like that without having it stick out into opening and having something in the corner directly at the bottom of the stairs may make it feel crowded.

Re coat closet: Can you change it and have it open from the hallway rather from the corrider that leads into the MB? I make my suggestion for two reasons: If this is partly guest coat closet, it's more of a public thing than a strictly private thing, so should be accessible from the more pubic part of the house (front hallway). Also turning the access would leave you with a flat wall position to stack the open door to your bedroom and prevent it covering the door to the left-most closet in the BR). Swinging the access to the coat closet into the hallway would make it marginally smaller, but probably more than adequate for coat hanging. And doing so might give a bit of added space in the lefthand BR closet for stowage of larger things like suitcases, or a second rack of out-of-season stuff, behind the main things.

And finally, for my most radical suggestion: Think about moving things around so that you have direct access to the big bathroom from the MB; with passageway from there to the laundry room for convenience of processing laundry to and from the wash. (And to make access to the deck from the MB more direct. For instance, if you wanted to shower before going into the hottub, right now, you'd have to walk clear around past the front door to get there.) I vastly prefer having a very private bathroom connected to my bedroom, and having an additional one(s) as need for guests, and my own daytime convenience. I live on a farm so I feel the need to have two PR room fonctions: one for guests and one more convenient to work spaces (both kitchen and outdoor work). I've observed that it makes outdoor workers uneasy if they seem to get routed to the "guest bathroom" - the one that seems to them to be intended for more formal guests, parties. etc. They are happy to use a less formal one that doubles as my regular downstairs half-bath. Neither guest nor workaday PR uses belong in my private bathroom, however. Could you figure out a way to have a guest PR (say at end of hall) that also had entrance from the mud room, laundry deck area - that way it could do double duty for all visitors, and for your own convenience from the kitchen/deck/outdoor area? That would be ideal to me, esp. if it also allowed the idea that the main, MB bath was directly accessible to the MB and with connection to the laundry space. I think your plan would be greatly improved if you could work something like that out.

I know you started with a kitchen reno, but in a project of this size, it pays to think about the other aspects you might change and make sure that one project doesn't make another situation worse.

There's another book I'd recomend to you: Get Your House Right by Maryann Cusato. It's primarily about exterior design, and how to make the individual elements (windows, doors, trim, rooflines, etc.) work harmoniously with each other rather than look assembled wily-nily. But it teaches you to have a better eye for the whole, not just the sum (or worse, just the aggregation) of the parts.

An observant friend of mine remarked (apropos of the difference between current versions of farm houses and authentic ones) "In those days people lived and worked on their farms so they were affected much more strongly by
the need for a pleasing design coherence (or conversely by lack there of). As a consequence they made buildings that still look attractive, a long time afterward. Nowadays, people leave their houses for work and only reurn at night and spend most of their time at home inside, so they never actually see how the elements work together, as a whole."

I often think of this observation when I see windows and door openings of various sizes and shapes just sort of planted where ever an opening seemed possible from the inside. Even in buildings intended to look cottage-y, or whimsical, there is no less need for all the elements to have some relationship to each other in position, size, and scale.

Hope all this helps you along in your thinking.
L

PS, When making the scale drawings,first make one that shows exactly what you're starting with, and then another version that shows what the current plan is. That way you(and we) can be on alert for any instance where using infrastructure (plumbing, electrc, windows, etc.) that's already there can be incorporated into the plan, saving you $$$. Reno-ing is always at least as expensive (on a big project like this) as building new - every instance where you can leave something unchanged helps lessen the bite.

Liriodendron- Well, to answer a few of your questions, though not in order, I do not live in the Pacific Northwest...at least not what most people picture as the PNW. That would be Seattle/Portland and all the areas to the west of the Cascades, in Oregon and Washington. They have the (normally) mild winters, cool summers and lots of rain.

We live in the Inland Northwest, which is eastern Washington and Oregon, northern Idaho and a bit of western Montana. In fact, we live five miles from Idaho and have long, cold winters...usually with lots of snow...and short, hot summers, often in the 90s and above in July and August.

When I said 'north to south' I was referring to the orientation of the plan. That seems to be the popular way to refer to things on the forum...rather than wall to the right, it's now called 'east' wall. It is easier to keep track of the plan, but it can be confusing. Acutally, the front of the house faces southeast, or maybe east southeast.

The greenhouse faces south and a little west, but we're pretty far north, so we have very long days in June and very short days in December. Mainly, I want an area, where I can have some plants and some sunshine, in the winter. I've included a small table and chairs, but it's mainly a work area, especially in the spring, where I can start some small plants for the garden. It's also off the mudroom, so the kitties will not be munching on my plants! :)

I did have the master bedroom and bath connected, in fact the bath was off the back of the bedroom, with the hot tub off that area...but the rooflines didn't work and our snow load is so heavy, I want to make sure we have adequate, at least 4/12 pitch.

So, I moved the bathroom to the hall and put in french doors, to divide the space off, when more privacy is needed. Otherwise, it can serve as a main bath during the day. Why have a bathroom that is only used at night and first thing in the morning? Why go through the bedroom, when someone else wants to soak in the tub? Also, if we ever decide to finish the upstairs into a master suite, this area will make an excellent office or den.

The window in the powder room is small (maybe oval) and frosted, so no worries about the boys being 'exposed' while using the facilities. Also, the door will screen the toilet, if it's left open. The window over the sink is mostly to balance the light in the kitchen and lines up with the window over the desk (which is actually a work counter with a curtain screening the desk area...and will serve as the kitty box facilities). You've got to put them somewhere!

The dryer vent was going under the floor and out where the greenhouse has been added on...so that's a good question to ask my contractor. It will probably be over by the hot tub, but we might leave it 'as is' and keep the little table there. I only have the laundry on the inside wall (like all the sinks, you'll notice) because we get such cold weather, I don't want the pipes to freeze. The toilets can be plumbed to the side, but when it gets -27 F. it's nice to not have plumbing right up against an exterior wall.

The screened porch is to keep the barn kitties, racoons, skunks, porcupines, neighbors dog, and deer...off my porch and out of the hot tub. The barn kitties are the worst! They love to sit on the edge of the horse trough...I can only imagine them circling me on the hot tub! LOL

I don't think most people realize how much storage is needed for food and paper products, when you live out of town...especially when the roads occasionally close, due to snow. It's important to be able to have enough stored to tide you over for a few weeks, worse case scenario.

My husband wants to put a covered patio area, off the screened porch, where we can really see the best view (off to the right) and have the BBQ and larger table and chairs there. His friend has a similar setup and he loves it...so that's going to be a wonderful entertaining space.

Since moving out here, I've realized that larger, multi-fuctional living areas...and lots of storage...are what's most important to us. Also, having back up heat sources and the ability to at least boil water and heat up something on the wood stove.

As for placement, the bathrooms are in the same area, the kitchen is in the same area and we don't have gas, so it's electric range/ovens. Also, all the plumbing is in the same area, to make it easier to access the current systems and keep everything in one area...hopefully keeping costs down.

Hope I didn't miss anything...and thank you for the thoughtful responses and book recommendations! :)

"An observant friend of mine remarked (apropos of the difference between current versions of farm houses and authentic ones)..."

Liriodendron, I was interested to read this because this has been a frequent subject of conversation recently with my husband. We farm and my husband is also a builder, and we'll be building a new house (my first ever) in a few months, if winter ever leaves. And it's not just farm houses either, but most single family houses, and the differences between older houses and newer ones is striking.

We noticed a lot of this on our recent "house tour" in Jan and Feb, since we had to drive from Alberta to NYC to clear out my late mother's apartment; we drove through Canada on the way east, and then through the US on the way west. The older houses were almost always more balanced and aesthetically pleasing.

Becky

Becky- I think one reason older houses are more balanced and aesthetically pleasing...is that they were built to look good from the outside. Usually, the inside looks good, too, but a lot more thought went into how the house looked from the exterior.

When you look at modern homes, how many times is the upstairs two feet deeper (usually in the back) than the downstairs...and sticks out over the first floor, with no attempt to integrate it into the style? This is for the larger master bath or closets, but for some reason, they don't make the first floor the same depth.

Another example, beautiful facade on the front...sides and back are left to be covered with vinyl siding or some other material...no shutters, brick/stone accents, nothing to tie all sides of the exterior, together.

Windows....now we want huge expanses of windows, but that's hard to 'reconcile' with small windows in the front (for privacy) and a big garage, often tacked on for convenience, but no thought given to how the size overwhelms the scale of the house, itself.

Inside, big rooms are connected, one to the next, with very little thought given to the size, scale and details of the room. When was the last time you saw little, square windows on either side of a fireplace, over built-in bookcases...unless it was an older home? A window seat, for dreaming? A quirky ironing board cabinet or broom closet for storage? A vestibule to keep the cold out of the front room?

Older homes had many of these features, because the builders/architects took the time to make every room special. There were often fewer rooms and each one had gracious details, to recommend it. Rooms weren't big and boxy, with soaring ceilings, they were smaller and more human, in scale.

Anyway, those are some of the points, made by Sarah Susanka, in the Not So Big House. Take part of the budget and sacrifice some square footage, to incorporate the charm and details of older homes...into your new build. I think she makes a good case for building a smaller home, with more character :)

"is that they were built to look good from the outside"

Yes, LL, that's what Liriodendron's friend had said, and I was agreeing : ).

And don't get me started on houses with attached garages where the garage is the first thing you see and overshadows the front door...

An observant friend of mine remarked (apropos of the difference between current versions of farm houses and authentic ones) "In those days people lived and worked on their farms so they were affected much more strongly by
the need for a pleasing design coherence (or conversely by lack there of). As a consequence they made buildings that still look attractive, a long time afterward. Nowadays, people leave their houses for work and only reurn at night and spend most of their time at home inside, so they never actually see how the elements work together, as a whole."

Amen.
-And I LOVE Get Your House Right by Maryann Cusato. Excellent resource.

Good advice, all the way through from Liriodendron. I would definitely want the option to access the hot tub from the master bedroom, and that's quite a trek allll the way through the house from one to the other. Also, I may have missed it, but do you have a pass-through situation to the deck? If you ever use an outdoor grill or something out there, I'd want a more direct access from/to the kitchen.

I wish I'd had your advice, Liriodendron, when placing my greenhouse... It's rudimentary (covered in clear plastic) and a stand-alone, but last summer (a particularly cool one here in the Puget Sound area) it got the nice southern light (probably too warm for it), while blocking some crucial light to my raised garden boxes. Dumb. Live and learn.

LavenderLass - I know from your many posts how much thought is going into your home plans, and the plans reflect your thoroughness and lifestyle and joie de vivre so well!

I wanted to toss one tidbit out, about access to the hot tub from the master, which I agree would be more convenient if you can swing it. You could swap the tub and the shower, and in the shower include a door to the screened porch. We once rented a vacation house with this feature, and it was so practical. I don't recall the specifics of that door, except that it was of course water-proof. I do remember the shower itself was a bit over-sized (but not huge) and tiled all the way around. I THINK the door frame may have been a few inches off the floor (ie shower pan height), but just don't remember exactly.

Isle

PS - your pantry is what I'm most excited to see come to fruition. Wow!

Thanks for the responses! As for the hot tub, I did have it off the master area...then I moved it. I've been looking into some hot tubs that people often use for cabins, summer homes, etc. My BIL has one, but apparently they're not as 'permanent' and can be moved around and easily emptied. We don't use a hot tub in the winter (too cold out there and too much snow) so for summer, it would be nice to have the hot tub, with the view out the back. My husband would love to have something for his back...and it would be fun to use it, but my mom and some of our friends might want access, too.

Apparently, you change the water more often and it's supposed to be environmentally friendly. My ideal would be to have it filled, when we want to use it, then dumped, like a big tub...but have the water piped off as gray water into the lawn and garden. That would be cool! We have well water...and have to water these things anyway. It would just be a question of how much energy it takes to heat up a smaller hot tub :)

Isle- That shower door sounds very cool, but I think we have too cold a climate for it to work, here. Neat idea, though!

I'm excited about the pantry, too. It's a multi-purpose space and I'm hoping it will work out, the way I've envisioned it. Our old farm sink (with drainboards on each side) will be under the window, and it will be great for washing veggies out of the garden, or using it as a laundry sink. Bulk items, small appliances, etc. will be stored on slide out shelves on the bottom. We might have a few drawers, but the mice seem to leave the slide out shelves alone, for the most part. Can you believe with all these barn kitties, we still ocassionally, get a mouse in the house?

The greenhouse may or may not have skylights. Even if it's just windows, it would work well for the plants I want to use...and starting some veggies in the spring. A bright place, with lots of room for pots, potting soil, vases, etc...and no kitties eating my plants! LOL

I've been more or less following the development of your plan over on the Building a Home forum. I've not read all of the posts there or here so don't know if this has been addressed, but want to mention a few things.

Have you had a wood stove before? Will you use it mostly as supplemental heat? If not, I would think it would get VERY warm while working in the kitchen. We have a thermometer that sits on our lower level woodstove (Hearthstone with soap stone--really radiates heat nicely) that indicates the optimal temperature range is ~300 to Also, we have our woodstove sitting on a 5' x 5' tile pad, and I wish we'd made it larger. Our woodstove can be front or side loaded. Both parts of the tile can get really messy. We've taped down a 2' layer of heavy duty plastic (a cut up office chair pad) around the perimeter of the tile over the carpet, and it can get messy, too. Not the most attractive thing to have! I would think your wood flooring might start to look sort of tacky after a while when ashes get into the cracks over time and where the tile meets the wood floor.

Also, with so much snow, why would you only have a 4/12 roof pitch? We have less snow than you do, but I insisted on a 10/12 pitch (designer wanted 6/12) and at times wish we had 12/12 when we have snow, partial thaw, ice, then more snow on top of that. Let gravity do its work!

Anne

L- Thanks for recommending the book! I will check the next time I get into town and see if our library has a copy :)

Anne- Yes I have had a wood stove and it is for supplemental heat. I believe I said, at least, a 4/12 pitch...but steeper is always better.

For Becky and others interested in the importance of making structures pleasing from the outside as well as in:

A book I picked up on a whim and found really interesting on this topic is "The Old Way of Seeing; How Architecture Lost Its Magic (and How to Get It Back)" by Jonathan Hale. He writes about the need for pattern and harmony in a facade, and how, say, an old eastern colonial home achieves its magnetism through balance and pattern, while many a 1920's neo-colonial home looks off because it tries for the same effect through an incoherent assemblage of symbolic elements (shutters, fanlights, columned porticoes, etc.) meant to suggest the original, but lacking an underlying pattern.

It's not a great book (light in style but heavy-handed in message) but worth looking at especially for the photos of buildings that "work," shown with the systems of regulating lines superimposed.

Mnerg- Thanks for the book recommendation.

Buehl- I know you've been very busy, but can you give me a hint? Do you think I need a prep sink, on the island? I'm going to be looking at countertops this weekend and I would appeciate any suggestions :)

mnerg, thank you for the title, will see if the library has it. Sounds right up our alley!

Becky

Buehl- One more question...if I do put a prep sink on the island, would you recommend all one level, or two level island? I'm concerned about splashing...and like the idea of one material for the work area and another for the stools...but I don't want it to look too broken up.

Thanks for any input :)

I have this great old farm sink, with drainboards on either side, that I was planning to use in the pantry. Now, I'm thinking of maybe using it in the kitchen (it's a single bowl) if I have a prep sink in the island. I'm not sure how long it is, but I'll measure it, when I get the chance...but it's probably about five feet.

Thanks to another post, I'm thinking that butcher block might be a good fit for my perimeter counters, with this sink. I'd love to use marble on the island, with a prep sink, but I'm not sure if I want all one level with marble, or butcher block on a raised area, for the seating. Any ideas?

Here's a picture I found for the prep sink. It shows the marble and butcher block on the same level...but it looks like a great place for crumbs to end up in that crack. Otherwise, it's very pretty :)

{{gwi:1672950}}

I like the look of the butcher block, too.

{{gwi:597862}}

Buehl- I measured and the sink is 54" wide and about 24" deep, with the sink itself, about 7" deep. It needs a little touch up reglazing, but under all the dust, it's in pretty good shape. I found it thrown out behind the farmhouse, when we inherited it. Why someone would throw it out is beyond me.

Here's a similar sink I found on Ebay...and they want $900 for it, although I don't know if that's realistic.

{{gwi:1672951}}

And here's my little dusty sink, with a lot of potential, I hope :)

{{gwi:1672952}}

Lavender Lass,

I had a sink like yours in a college apartment, I loved the drainboards, but found the basin not deep enough for serious dishwashing. I found I had to use dishpans. I think for a pantry sink, though, it would be great.

L

~~~ Lavender_Lass...my exam is Monday afternoon....maybe Tuesday??? (If you still need help) ~~~

lavender, love that sink.

L- I measured everything carefully, last night, and came up with the same conclusion. I think it would be great in the pantry for washing veggies right out of the garden and arranging flowers. It's also the closest sink I have to the laundry area and I think it would be perfect for hanging a few clothes above, to let them dry. Any drips go right back into the sink :)

Grennhouses- Thank you! It's going to look great (I hope) in the pantry with butcher block counters.

Buehl- Tuesday would be fine...thank you. Good luck on your test!

I'm back...and I passed the exam! I'm now a certified Project Management Professional (PMP)!!!

+++ back to your kitchen +++

Could you please give me a synopsis of what you've decided, what you still have to decide, and thoughts, etc. I know it's probably all above, but so much has been discussed/gone on while I was "away" that I think it would be a big help for me! Oh, and a pic of the layout you've decided on or pretty much decided on (it sounds like you've come close to finalizing your design...)

Thanks!

Buehl- Congratulations on passing your exam!!! :)

What is a Project Management Professional? It sounds impressive!

As for the kitchen, I'm still thinking about different options. All I've really decided on (I think LOL) is that the big farm sink would work really well, in the pantry. While I like the idea of a prep sink, still not sure. Also, while I like butcher block counters, with a bit of marble...still thinking about that, too.

Why don't you just draw what YOU think would work in the space? That would be wonderful! Then, I can see if there's something you've come up with, that I never would have even thought about doing. The only 'fixed' thing I can think of, is that the fridge shouldn't be on the end, by the wood stove.

Also, can you take a quick look at Noelle's kitchen, first? (Noebee1313) She's trying to get her plan finalized and I think she's closer to building, than I am. I sketched a quick idea this morning for her, but I know she'd really appreciate your input :)

From the Project Management Institute's (PMI) website:

"...the PMP demonstrates that you have the experience, education and competency to successfully lead and direct projects."

Basically, it's a certification saying that I've been trained and have experience managing projects. In my case IT projects; but it applies to all industries from construction to IT. I had to take one of those 4-hour, grueling tests to achieve the certification. (That was after proving I had enough experience in the past to qualify as well.)

I wonder how many GCs and KDs that lead Projects have been PMP certified? :-)

Good question! :)

While I don't have a lot of input as to floor plan (I'm looking forward to seeing your ideas) I do have some colors I like. I don't know if this will help or not (and maybe I'm just sick of the snow) but here's some of my favorites :)

Here are some vintage cottage kitchens. I like the turquoise/aqua colors with the jadite green

{{gwi:1642679}}

{{gwi:1642678}}

{{gwi:597862}}

Here's a close up of the turquoise bowl...

{{gwi:1672954}}

And this is Corian Mint Ice...I like the idea of a bright countertop...not so neutral, maybe with some marble or wood on the island?

{{gwi:1672956}}

Here's a color swirl I like...

{{gwi:1672958}}

And here's a light yellow I like, to warm up the turquoise and green.

{{gwi:1672960}}

I'm planning to use the turquoise, soft greens and yellows, throughout the house, with some purple and pink accents (very garden style) so I hope this will look nice for a country home! :)

Oh, and when I say pink and lavender, I'm thinking something like this...

{{gwi:1672961}}

{{gwi:1672963}}

Buehl- If you want to move things around a bit more, the fridge can go on the other end. I just talked to some wood stove 'experts', who said the clearance should be more than enough...but if I'm worried, just add a narrow pantry or broom closet, or an end panel of cabinetry, with a heat shield. This would keep the hot air away from the fridge.

Oh, and the window (if you decide to keep it) can move around over what is now the sink area...just so it's not too close to the bathroom wall. I don't care if I can see the washer and dryer :)

I'd still like a raised oven somewhere...it's too bad they don't make modern day ranges, like the old stoves from the 1920s and 1930s. I'd love to find something with all the built in raised ovens, warming drawers, burners, etc. on one unit!

{{gwi:1672964}}

Oooh, these are really nice, too! I like the bright countertop, but not the metal trim. Something more of an aqua would be very pretty. The glass uppers and plate rack/display with beadboard are great accents :)

{{gwi:1672965}}

{{gwi:1672966}}

So, I think I'm getting close to a plan I love, but I was hoping to see what you've come up with, too. If you're too busy, that's fine, but I would like to see what you think. I'm having a lot of fun looking at color and finishes, so I'll keep doing that today...and maybe show you my plan tomorrow, if you don't have time to post one :)

Buehl- I read that you've been really busy, on Noelle's post...and you still have another plan to do for her. So, I thought I'd show you my plan and you can tell me what you think and make any changes, you might suggest :)

Here's the plan, I know there are aspects that were recommended to me months ago! All I can say, is that I have learned much from the forum...and can now see why people were suggesting these ideas. Better late, than never! LOL

I have the wall oven/microwave, then the dishwasher on the left of the main sink (farm sink) and drawers to the right. Corner lazy susan, more drawers, the range, then pull out shelves (maybe narrow drawers?) and the fridge. The island has a prep sink, drawer with pull out shelves, and pull out trash, on the other end.

While drawers are nice, we do live on a farm...with mice (even with all the barn kitties) so pull out shelves behind cabinet doors are sometimes less attractive to the mice.

For the upper cabinets, I'd like to have some open storage (plate rack and display) maybe some glass uppers, but still have some closed storage, for baking supplies, etc.

I'm leaning towards white cabinets and appliances with aqua/turquoise solid surface or butcher block countertops. The island would be turquoise with a marble/granite that looks like marble, countertop (or maybe butcher block, depending on perimeter countertops).

Vinyl floors that look like wood, maybe pale yellow walls, with lots of aqua, green and blue fabrics and accessories...and vintage dishes. I have some cute Jadite (salt, pepper, flour, sugar shakers) that I'd like to use on one of the display shelves, near the range :)

Sorry, this is so big, but I have no idea how to make it smaller. Thanks, again, for your help!

{{gwi:1672967}}

That south wall (the little one, between the seating area and the dining area) should be one foot longer. I forgot to add a foot, when I took a foot off the island. This will make the walls the same length (3'), on either side of the kitchen entrance, when viewing from the dining table. I'd love to find some old brackets to put on either side, like Sarah Richardson did, in her farmhouse.

{{gwi:1672968}}

{{gwi:1672969}}

Buehl- If the island is 5' x 3'6", do you think there is enough room for a prep sink? It would be great if the sink fit, but if not, I might switch back the fridge and oven/microwave.

Any ideas? :)

How much room do you need for aisles? I like the four feet, between the range and island (plus the fridge sticks out)...but what about between the main sink and island?

Would 42" be enough? This would let me make the island 6' wide...and still be centered with the banquette :)

Hi Lavender!
Your post above from Sarah's house - they also call those 'Corbels' and you can find them on eBay and in flea markets. Also VanDyke Restorers sells new ones which you could stain and weather. I know this because I've been looking for the perfect ones for a year now :-) Here are some on eBay (see link below). As for the aisle, I may be wrong but I think 42" is standard width. But Buehl can probably better answer that.

Here is a link that might be useful: eBay Corbels

Chris- Thank you! I could not think of the word...corbels :)

Have you found ones you like yet, or are you still looking? I'm not sure if I want to stain or paint mine, but they look so neat, in that farmhouse!

42" should be okay...as long as there's enough room to open the dishwasher. I like a little more room with the range, but there's 4' on that side.

Thanks for the link! :)

Buehl- I know you've been busy, for the past few weeks, but I'm going to be back at work, full time, starting Monday. We slowed down our advertising, with my tooth infection, but I had the root canal (part one) a week and a half ago and the root canal (part two) today. If all goes well, we'll be back at work, next week...with not nearly as much time to visit GW.

So, I was hoping to play around with the plan while I was on 'slow time' but that's coming to a close. I'm so glad you passed your test and if you have a chance to look at my plan, that would be great! Otherwise, I'll just check back when I can. Hope you get option 3 out for Noelle, too. I know we ask a lot of you...but that's what happens when you have so much talent and great software! :)

I found the most beautiful work table with marble top, on the Internet. It really made me rethink my whole island/table situation...and I think I'm back to table. This is the good thing about still being in the planning stages! :)

Anyway, I switched the fridge and ovens back, because no room for a sink, in a table like this. Now that I've found something I really love, I know what to look for and I'll start visiting antique/second hand stores this spring. Now that I have a clear picture in my head, I hope I have a much better chance of finding it. It's a little french, will go with my vintage style and it's very functional. I can be flexible on the base...whether it's beautiful wood like the picture or something I need to paint, I do love that marble top, future etches and all!

{{gwi:1435527}}

Oh, and thanks to everyone, who recommended a farm sink. I think it will work great, in the space :)

{{gwi:1672970}}

I'd move the DW to the opposite side of the sink if you can. It isn't pleasant to prep over a DW.

Marcolo- Thanks for the response! I was thinking about that, but I moved the window over a little, and I don't think it will fit. We usually don't do the dishes and prep at the same time, so I think it will be okay, plus people can toss trash in, without getting into my prep area :)

Hey Lavender-- not at all a kitchen thought, but next to the woodstove you should definately plan a space to store wood. Not a lot of course, but we have a woodstove, and after my husband gets it going in the morning, he usually brings in 3-5 pieces so I can feed the fire during the day, without having to trek outside. We have a gavanized bucket that we use and a small part of our hearth that sticks out to set it down on, but I would love room for a small wood box on the actual stone hearth, and its not quite big enough. I am constantly cleaning up wood chips, fallen bark, spilled ashes, etc. So make sure there is a little space around your stove for those "function" things! Woodstoves are messy :) My wood floor however is not gunky at all near the stove, but I do vaccuum up debris almost every day so little feet, and doggie feet don't grind it into the floor and ruin the finish, stratch it, etc. Of course we use our stove from October through April most years (this look like an early spring this year though!!) So 7 months out of the year, my floor near the woodstove and hearth aren't ever clean for longer than a few hours :)

In other kitchen news... I like your floorplan/layout. It is simple and functional, especially if you never clean-up during prep, because I do see the DW placement as a little bit tricky if you ever plan on having it open while you cook, which you say won't be often, but I only wonder if the door to the DW would open into the path of the oven door. I guess you'd have to measure the DW door height. And maybe its not a real issue...
How wide is your trash?? It looks like its 18". Swapping the trash and dishwasher may only require that window to move a few (6) inches. Are you tring to center the window over the washer and dryer or align it with an exterior window?? Because I'd say function in the kitchen should trump beauty in the laundry room/pantry :) Good luck!!!

Lavender, it's not about interference from DW users while you're prepping. Unless you get something high end, your DW is going to emit steam and heat right in your nether regions. Highly unpleasant, and also very bad for pastry dough.

Noelle- Hi! Much like your situation, my husband is nice enough to help with the dishes, but usually after the meal. When I'm doing them, I'm not prepping...so I think it will be okay. Other people have pointed out the idea that the fridge and dishwasher, right next to each other, might not look that great...and I think I'd rather have the trash close to the fridge and dining table. I could move the window (in fact, I just moved it to the left) but I like it centered on the work table and the window, on the other side of the laundry room. That kind of thing (being off centered) would really bother me! LOL

The other concern is between our throwing everything into the dishwasher and the hard water, we're tough on dishwashers...so the standard white is our best bet. No panel or fancy stuff...just white. It would be cool to find a retro-looking fridge (maybe on e-bay or CL) that someone got tired of using. They look so cool, but I've read on the forum, that truly old fridges don't hold up well...but the ranges can be wonderful!

Great ideas for the wood stove area! I did have wood storage on my 'nice software' from Summerfiled, but not on the hearth. Good point about keeping it easy to clean. I'm planning to have vinyl floors that look like wood (too much debris on the farm) but I'll still be sweeping, constantly.

How's your kitchen plan coming along? Does your DH like your ideas? I'm looking forward to seeing your next plan :)

Marcolo- LOL!!!

You have such a great way of saying things and I've enjoyed so many of your posts! I appreciate your concern, but I think it will be okay...and the dough will be on the marble work table :)

Congrats Buehl on passing your exam!!