30" dishwasher? Or the cab is thirty and what is in the other 6" left over by the 24" DW? Or, have I missed something in the world of dishwashers? lol...

I see the banquette as taking up more room than the current kitchen table, plus being a lot less flexible.

But turn the table 90 degrees and there's no longer such a pinch point between the table and the current refrigerator. Whereas the round table with banquette, as shown, has the same size pinch point as does the current orientation of the rectangular table.

I'd like to add another vote for revolving shelves in the corners. Also for the stacked washer/dryer. Also for shallow cupboards, perhaps with a counter, in the lower left corner of the kitchen (bookshelves over deeper cabinets are another option).

Up too late but I played around with tweaking your plan while leaving it basically unchanged. Cut off the right blind cab for a straight 4' run of counter top. Stuck a between the studs pantry in the wall where the old cab was. Moved your stove left enough for drawer opening clearance which shrunk the cab b/w stove and fridge to 15" so made it a pull-out for trays or ?

A thought: is it worth considering opening the doorway b/w the kitchen and LR? That might add a nice bit of relief functionally and visually to get that doorway a bit wider. Probably an oval (or round with leaves that could be added when needed) table is a better fit that square or rectangle, as pointed out above.

Just throwing around some ideas. :)

Ha! Just noticed right this second that this is basically my exact layout, if the fridge was moved across the room, which wouldn't work for you, but funny I didn't see it before...

Agree with deedles about an oval table.You can consider a bench with storage, in front of the small window, I guess it can be about 20" deep. If the table is about 36x44 I think it can be comfortable for your everyday use, and if extended about a foot maybe even 6 can dine.

If you keep the fridge and have a pantry on the other side of the LR entry, having some type of glass doors may help with the tunnel effect they might create.

It really is a tunnel, and it forces you to drop stuff on the kitchen table before you squeeze through it. If you move the refrigerator to the trap door wall, you could have it just far enough away from the laundry room wall to open the door, and use the space in between for the broom. Or you could give enough room for a skinny elfa cart on wheels (30% off till March 2).

Both would be moveable to access the trap door.

I'd probably leave the sink and dishwasher where they are on the bathroom wall, just scoot them over to make room for the refrigerator.

Center the range on its wall, so you can access that corner more easily.

Shallow cabinets are perfect over by the living room door, but I would do uppers and lowers with a bit of counter space to encourage putting stuff there instead of on the table.

The drawings above seem all very tight in that eat-in corner, if everything is really 6" per square. You will be moving that table back and forth (perhaps on casters) to get enough room to sit behind it. Are you currently just seating two in the corner? A banquette or bench also can double as extra storage plus usually gains you a bit in depth. But you like need to plan for a minimum of 45x45 (preferably 51x51 -- plus side access!) to get just two seats in a corner.

Having a 1937 plaster & lathe two-story house, we've replaced the plumbing and wiring on a more piecemeal basis. I don't know if this is ideal or not. I do know that things are very disruptive and pretty destructive to finishes (especially with plaster and lathe), thus it made sense to do this when we were replacing the finishes. With a single story and good access points (and attic/crawlspace), you should be able to minimize this.

bpathome perfectly described my thoughts.

Can you access the corner between sink and range from the other side? Is that a linen closet outside the bathroom?

If you move the range to the left (since the fridge is gone), you can either put a super susan in the corner.

I love the idea of cabinets between the table and wall, either with or without a counter. I have such a wall in my kitchen, and it's fabulous. I built in two file cabinet drawers, which make it easy to deal with the "to file" stuff. Mine doesn't have a counter, but does have a cabinet designed as command central. Inside the doors are a calendar and a magnetic white board; outlets for a charging station; shelves containing envelopes, dog treats and supplies, and baskets for paperwork.

I'll warn you, though, if you are in the habit of dumping stuff on the table, you might continue to do so, even if you build a new spot. It's been 6 months in my house, and I still haven't trained myself to deal with things right away. But at least if I want to clear off the table in a hurry, I have a place to put things!

Good luck with your project.

Boy, when you look at the space from the top down view, it really does seem like the fridge needs to move in front of the access plumbing spot, doesn't it? Guess if you did move it there you could still access it by rolling the fridge forward. And really, how often does that have to happen anyway? AND, you can keep the fridge you have for now, too. Shallow pull-out on the side is a great idea.

Still like the idea of widening the doorway to the LR... if you had a glass front cab there, it could be shallower and still provide some nice storage. Also drew a rounded corner on the end cab.

Moving that fridge seems to open up some nice counter space and way better corner storage, too. Kind of a good trade for everyday function vs. (hopefully) once in 10 years access to the plumbing.

LOVE the fridge in the bottom corner...maybe with magic sliders? Gee, wouldn't it be nice to have complete access to that trap door when needed without having to pretzel into a cabinet?

Here is a link that might be useful: Magic Sliders

those magic sliders work great, btw.

When you wrote that you didn't want to do major structural changes, did you mean building an addition or changing doors and windows?

In case, it's the former and you'd consider changing doors and windows, here's what could be possible:

You'll notice that the traffic is no longer routed through your kitchen but past it. That requires relocating the laundry room/kitchen entry (pocket door or barn door slider) and kitchen/living room entry. This plan also requires replacing the windows to raise the sills up to counter height.

If you opt for a counter height banquette like this:

[

[Contemporary Dining Room[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/contemporary-dining-room-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_722~s_2103) by Excelsior Design-Build Firms Lake Country Builders
the table will double as an island.

You can bring in 2 chairs when needed. The aisle between table and fridge will be a bit snug but not as snug as it is in your current plans. Add drawers to each end of the bench for more storage space.

btw, I'm assuming the 30" fridge is a CD, hence the 29" depth for it (not including handles). I drew in a 33" wide fridge cab for it. You could also do a 39" sink cab. It does mean a slightly smaller sink but no smaller than a 24" sink you're accustomed to.

The W/D is a stackable unit, 2.0 cu ft, 23.5" wide x 24" deep (check Whirlpool, GE, Miele, and Bosch). Your home is small; IMO, you don't need full size appliances as if there were a family of 4 living there. It's a good bet that there will never be a family of 4 living in this home. I would design it with appliances geared to apartment living.

For instance, if you were willing to go with a 18" wide DW (Bosch, Miele) and a 30" sink, the fridge run would be:
43" wide aisle at top
33" wide fridge cab
1" counter support
18" DW
30" sink cab
33" x 36" corner Susan

The range wall could be (starting from Susan)
38" cab run
30" range
20" cab to wall.

This is a more expensive project but, IMO, it would help your small home and small kitchen function better than it currently does.

btw, I haven't forgotten the trap door in the top corner. Cover it with an area rug and pull out of the way when you need to access the crawlspace.

Wow! Thanks everyone, so many ideas!

I wanted to make a note that I am here and reading and appreciating all the replies, but my mind is blown and I think I have to take this all in for a little bit before formulating coherent responses.

Wow!

(There are magic sliders for a fridge?)

Really like lisa_a's plan, but if you don't want to change walls and such, you could really have a wonderful kitchen if you'd be willing to entertain a different refrigerator. You could also make the counters along the sink wall 27" deep and it would allow a non-counter depth refrigerator to blend in better. A 36" wide 12"-15" deep floor to ceiling pantry along wall to LR would hold a lot!

You guys are right, that is a 24" dishwasher. Please forgive my lunacy. However the sink base is also really 24".

missingtheobvious, we've had the table both ways before. It seems to either make it harder to go from the laundry room to the kitchen or harder to go from the kitchen to the living room. Six of one, half dozen of the other, I think it is just the wrong table.

deedles, I am liking your late night plan. That is indeed a linen closet off the hall and it should be fairly straightforward to bust through the back of it and access a dead corner at the top left corner of the kitchen.

sena01, thanks again. The table dimensions are helpful, as well as being able to see what happens if I don't change much other than quit trying to have a U where there should be an L, which I'm seeing the merits of more and more.

bpathhome, I think you are right. Now that I found out about magic sliders (!) maybe I can put the fridge in the upper right corner. We really have only needed access to the trap door on about two occasions in 14 years, but when we do need it it's really nice to have. Thank you for your other tips too.

gooster, unfortunately, no one is being seated at the table now. It seems to be one big storage area no matter what I do. I guess my goal is to make it into enough of a space that even just a couple of people would or could enjoy sitting and living at. It might inspire my spouse to stop placing car batteries and etc. there. Thanks for your plumbing and electrical experiences as well. I thought it might be most efficient and economical to do as you have done. The kitchen seems to have taken the brunt of Nisqually, and I don't know what I'll find when the cabinets come down. I'm all for keeping the plaster and lath if it's in good shape but there's every chance I will demo it in the kitchen.

annkh, yep, linen closet! Your cabinets sound great. Thanks for the tips and well wishes!

deedles again: yes I think you are right! I have seen the way. I think I really like this L with the fridge moved. Where would you all put coffee/micro/toast in this scenario? It's currently in (what I have drawn as) the top of the right edge, so where the fridge would be going. Thanks again!

robotropolis and deedles: magic sliders! I'm all over it.

lisa_a, thanks for the drawing! It's really, really food for thought. Not only does it line up the laundry and kitchen-to-LR doors which is great, it also lines them up with the front door in the living room, which opens up more possibilities there. Like, I could finally get a corner in the living room for my small wood stove. I'm just not sure the scope for this is going to include moving doors and windows. It's more expensive and would include a bunch of tedium like trying to piece together original wood floors from the living room from where we put stuff to go in where we removed stuff, etc. I have nothing against apartment sized appliances, except that they are often more expensive (and get harder to find replacements over time) than standard sizes. I appreciate what you are saying and agree with you, and thank you for helping me to see what is possible.

cluelessincolorado, it's like deedles' plan but thanks for the 3D! Seems pretty clear now that the coffee/micro/toast is going to the left of the stove. Or maybe between the sink and the fridge, but that seems like prime clean up territory. On the other hand, it does get pretty dirty there so it would be nice next to the sink, and there usually isn't much in my cleanup zone. Anyone think an appliance garage would look weird either of those places? Maybe better between the sink and the fridge.

Thanks again everyone, I really appreciate everyone's thoughts and replies!

I wouldn't do an appliance garage in that kitchen, counter space being at a premium and all...

When are you going to start your new kitchen?

I would consider an opening in the panty cab for the coffee and MW, if you can fit them there. Toaster can be next to range I guess.

If you can't have the MW in the pantry cab, consider a shelf under an upper cab. But,I don't see a good place for it, really. I wouldn't have it b/w the sink and the range as that area seems to be your main prep zone. If its over the DW, I think it'll be too close to the sink for you to comfortably work there. Having it on the left of range can work, but I'm not sure how it'd feel when entering from the LR. A few drawings to show how it might look, might be better to do a mock up and see how it would feel,

I think you have 22" between the wall and door frame next to LR no? I wouldn't allow a pantry to go past frame in any case. We have our MW in a 16" deep cabinet with room to spare on sides/back. It's not a full size, but fits 11" plates with room to spare. Electrical panel behind cab, so not full cabinet depth.

No input, other than to say - You guys are great!

You could always get rid of the MW entirely... I did several years ago and didn't miss it for a second, surprisingly.

I may be a blasphemer, but if you don't eat in the kitchen, do you need a table there? Sounds like you use it for storage and work, so perhaps a work table or rolling island type piece, both with drawers beneath, would work for you? If you need a table for eating at, you could do a narrow one in the he living room, perhaps with fold-down leaves if you have company. I have a table from my Grandma with a rectangular top that swivels and unfolds to become a card table, perfect for four.

deedles, not for a while yet. It's kind of stuck in the pipe behind some other plans, which I may be able to finesse and combine as I get farther along in the research stage. I just like to have a plan in mind as early as I can, if I can.

sena01, thanks again. It would be nice to have a place for those things to go. It's basically already mocked up since now when entering the kitchen from the living room the only thing on our left is the solid side of a fridge. Might be nice to have a coffee pot there instead.

cluelessincolorado, I like your microwave cubby!

Mags438 yes everyone is!

deedles again, that is certainly an idea. I'm not sure it's one we are ready for immediately, but continuing to have the microwave in an awkward place on the counter can't hurt with the adoption of it.

bpathome, this is hard. I guess my dream is to not eat at the TV or computer all the time. We used to use the table sometimes when we first moved in, but over time I suppose the lack of it being the right table combined with inertia made it into a storage zone, which was never what I wanted. I guess I am hoping that a change in surroundings will help along a change in behavior. I could be wrong.

You have a nice corner window in the living room, perhaps a bistro table that is too small to plunk stuff on, but just the right size for dinner-for-two. Also gets you out of view of the prep dishes waiting to be washed :) . It's not really in front of the tv, but you could move things around to watch the game if needed.

Sorry I missed your reply bpathhome! I had been travelling for work and got a little disorganized there.

Truthfully, the living room windows and a good part of the floor space in the tiny laundry room are taken up by cat accessories. Not to become too grim, but my husband's allergies have gotten worse as he gets older and although I love these cats, when they are done with their long and happy lives we won't be getting more. At that point some things in those areas could be shifted around. But I do want to have a small table and chairs of some kind in the kitchen, even if it's just so someone can hang out with me while I'm cooking and then we go watch something while eating. As it is no one pretty much ever sits at the table, but everyone stands around in there! I also just have fond nostalgia issues about being able to sit around a small kitchen table. And I kind of feel like having the right table (and the fact that it's new) will be helpful with setting up ground rules and new habits.

So, I'm pretty sure I'm going with IKEA cabinets and I've been fooling with the planner for a couple of weeks. After all that, I come to realize what I have is almost identical to what cluelessincolorado had. What do you all think about this?

I was at IKEA a week or two ago and sat at this FUSION table which I expected to hate but I actually felt happy sitting in it.

I have the table shoved way in the corner here, but most of the time it's for two people anyway.

I don't think the doorway to the living room is too super crowded?

I think main prep has a little more room than before, since there is around 6" before the sink starts around the corner. On the upper cabinet that appears trapped, I would put a 24" door there and have a blind corner.

A farm sink is not something I always wanted, and I had envisioned undermount stainless steel. But the price is right for the DOMSJO, and since it is full counter depth using it saves 4 square feet of counter material. Freestanding range instead of cooktop cutout saves another 5 square feet of counter material. Plus whatever upcharges there are for the cutouts.

I'm hoping to do some kind of stealthy storage in the 6" filler next to the refrigerator. Maybe in the studs in that area as well, but it's going to take some thought since I don't really want it to be open shelves and handles would interfere with pulling out a storage solution in the filler area. It might not be worth it since there's probably a lot of plumbing in there for the washing machine and hot water heater.

What do you think, am I getting closer?

Below I'm attaching the planner link for those with the IKEA planner addon installed.

Here is a link that might be useful: IKEA planner, should be good for five days

Looks good, smallhouse. Here is an idea for a skinny pull out pantry for next to the fridge.

What about leaving off the door to the blind upper and having some open shelves, instead of a 24' door?

Here is a link that might be useful: pull out pantry

Looks good.
I would probably put the microwave over the dishwasher. When we do have 2 cooks in the kitchen one of us seems to always be trying to use the microwave when the other is using the stove top. I also just like having it closer to the fridge.

You mentioned storage in the wall between the studs. Are you going with pretty or functional? I attached a pic of a very functional idea. There are so many really pretty ones using glass shelving and tile on the back also.

Here is a link that might be useful: [kitchen niche[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/saddle-butte-contemporary-kitchen-phvw-vp~6340202)

Thanks deedles, I have seen a couple of hacks like this but that link is new to me. That would be perfect, make one of the shelves tall enough for cereal boxes and I'm a happy camper.

How is your project going? I didn't notice it get bumped up for a while.

I'm a little put off open shelves for now. This is embarrassing but might help explain why.

mellyc123, it's a good idea putting the microwave over the dishwasher. I know I just got done saying I don't want open shelves, but I've been thinking about taking upper space to make exactly one open shelf for the microwave.

The only other appliances I usually have out all the time are the coffee maker, coffee grinder and toaster. I might have those on the counter over between the stove and the living room door. While it's handy to have the coffee maker closer to the sink, it's not that big of a deal, and I'd rather have open space above the dishwasher for loading and unloading landing space. That's also my refrigerator loading and unloading landing space. I don't like the toaster being very close to the sink, so that all works out.

I like the fusion table.... but....with the chairs on the corners, it looks like only one chair will be able to be pulled out easily?

What about that ps one, the bamboo one? Or s little round one?

Also, I'm wondering if there's any way to enforce dumping stuff in the laundry area instead of the kitchen? A bookshelf or something?

I don't think it's tough to get 2-3 of the chairs out. In typical IKEA furniture (but not kitchen cabinet) fashion, the whole thing is super light too. I will put a few felt pads on the feet and it can easily be put wherever.

I alluded to this earlier but the most prime laundry room real estate is currently consumed by cat boxes. I don't even want to mount coat hooks above them such as it is. Dropped your scarf while hanging it up? Whoops!

You can kind of see what I mean here...only one chair can really be used when it's in a corner.

Whereas with a more conventional table you could still use two chairs even when it was tight in the corner.

Oh IKEA. Why couldn't they just design it round? LOL.

Thanks for pointing it out. It seems somewhat trivial to me to pull it a foot or two in whichever direction when it's in use I think.

I would really work on the entry space.

"I alluded to this earlier but the most prime laundry room real estate is currently consumed by cat boxes. I don't even want to mount coat hooks above them such as it is. Dropped your scarf while hanging it up? Whoops!"

This seems like something that would be easy to remedy. There are many IKEA hacks that would make it possible use your space more efficiently, like this one:

Here is a link that might be useful: Hol Cat Litter box with Sliding Top Read more at http://www.ikeahackers.net/2011/05/hol-cat-litter-box-with-sliding-top.html#GH516OOpwIolIJ1h.99

I have a finicky kitty guy. :( He had been acting out in that area until we added another cat box. I can't imagine trying to make them crawl inside some form of tunnel or cave to use the bathroom, it would be asking for problems. I took on the responsibility and as long as they are here their Feng Shui is going to be more important than mine. I will fix the laundry room after they have gone.

"While it's handy to have the coffee maker closer to the sink, it's not that big of a deal,"

Our coffee maker is nowhere near the sink, you need the sink and trash for only a moment to dump the grounds and fill the carafe. But we need milk every time we pour a cup, so it's next to the fridge.

A pullout would be handy! Between the studs, you could store coffee mugs, travel mugs, coffee, and ooh, good place for the paper towel roll?

I like your plan! So fun to go to ikea for ideas, then figure out what works for you. Sounds like it's just the table you need to work out, and that's just icing you can work on while the rest of the kitchen labor goes on. And ikea furniture is inexpensive enough that you can change your mind. Me, I like a rectangle with rounded ends (but not oval). Easy to push into the corner without looking crammed.

A few questions:
How deep are the cabinets to the left of LR door?

Would your cats object to an open "bench" above litter boxes? I have lost all my mud room floor area to a new puppy and couldn't imagine losing the walls!

Would you be open to having 18-21" to the left of the range? Still have decent landing space, and those inches would help other side.

I really see a banquette in your kitchen:

Incorporate IKEA cabinetry under the seat for a storage bonus. People use banquettes because they are comfortable! They add some soft texture and create a focal point out of windows too. In your case I would just do a linear banquette, and supplement with chair/stools as desired.

This post was edited by feisty68 on Tue, Mar 25, 14 at 12:46

Also, I think a designated landing strip/dumping zone is critical for your home. I have the same problem - tiny entrance and kitchen at entrance.

I had the same thought as cluelessincolorado - perhaps I'm not understanding the cat litter issue, but couldn't you do something like this in the laundry room?

Or something like this but without the dividers under the bench:

This post was edited by feisty68 on Tue, Mar 25, 14 at 12:53

Feisty68, that's exactly what i meant, but with a taller shelf.
Mid-thigh maybe. Some cats can be very finicky when it comes to how their boxes are presented. Definitely need easy access!

cluelessincolorado, they are 12 7/8" deep base cabinets to the left of the living room door.

Open bench in the laundry room is a thought. The one cat might still stage a protest. He is a big hulking part Maine Coon and he's the sweetest thing ever but he is choosy about his "throne." If the bench was closer to stool height it might be okay.

Here's the 15" and 24" drawer stacks switched for more room between the range and sink. Is it violating any principles having the range too close to the walkway now?

feisty68, here's a one sided banquette.

It kind of does take up a lot of the room if I use the two foot deep cabinets.

Thanks again for everyone's input, it's very helpful.

I would def. consider swapping those cabs for more prep room. In my old kitchen I had 12" of wall space before the doorway and NO cabinet there at all! Everyone lived to tell about it although it did make me nervous at times. A 15" cab is plenty fine IMO.

Smallhouse, another option would be the 15" deep IKEA Besta cabinets (designed for living room use) as seating for the one-sided banquette. Bonus is that the tops are finished, though I'd recommend making a custom foam top with a sturdy fabric washable/removable cover. Such a cute corner to curl up with a laptop and a cup of something warm.

Hmm, I threw a bench on there to closer approximate the depth.

I have a very similar ktichen (11x13), pics below of what I did . A petite bistro table and chairs worked best for me as the space is so small and right near through traffic. It is surprisingly functional yet does not take up space. I love sitting in the nook chatting with a friend over tea...

Two suggestions - wait to do wiring until you do remodel. Finalize design and do all at once, will be more efficient and cost effective. I did do some plumbing first, as I had to move water heater due to kitchen design. I swapped out all the galvanized for copper and cut over to a new tankless water heater in phase 1. then phase 2 was gutting and full construction of the kitchen, including rewire in other parts of house.

My second suggestion - go with custom cabinetry using local cabinet maker. I did this and was able to really maximize the space and storage capabilities. The cost was slightly more but not by much and the additional functionality squeezed in more than justified the slight increase. I also loved that I could select the exact color of cabinetry by going custom.

Breakfast Nook: Table purchased on Craigs List, custom chairs ordered on line

The Before

The After

Sink Wall (sorry bad photo taken during tiling)

The Layout

I love your kitchen babushka_cat! It goes so well with the cat. What is the size of your table? If I could ask, what is the general style and age of your house? Mine is 1943 ranch and I think in the before I can kind of see some slight similarities, though mine has never had ducted heating.

Thanks for the advice! I will talk to a local cabinet maker. I'm not sure if I hold high hopes for them being in the same ballpark as IKEA, but I will try. Thanks for the electrical/plumbing info too. I haven't started trying to get bids yet, but I will ask the contractors about it too. I am hoping not to have to open much plaster. But given some of the issues the current sink has had, I can't say I'm overly optimistic there. Great ideas, thanks again!

Do you have the space for a wall mounted/ drop leaf sort of counter? Years ago my daughter's had one in her very smallish 1930's rental. It was ideal and even served well for parties, as well as sitting and eating. It was sort of a half round, and about 3' long, but could be made to any specifications. Formica was on the top, but I could see wood with a heavy duty varnish, possibly what's used on boat decking(Boat Coat)? The hinges were small, but suitable, but for something larger, piano hinges would work. It's definitely a DIY possibility w/o too much cost.

Here is a link that might be useful: [from houzz/similar concept[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/alterman-eclectic-kitchen-new-york-phvw-vp~2948642)

Your kitchen makes me so happy babushka_cat, it's always been one of my favorites! I second the custom route, esp in a small space. I don't have an inch of filler in my 9x10 kitchen and the cabs were maybe $750 more, if that. I like the idea of a rectangular table with a couple of "nice" extra folding chairs thats could be stored on hooks in the mud room over your new landing shelf ;-)

It could be a wall mounted drop leaf table, but there is nowhere to really put it now except maybe right inside the laundry room door which would be more pleasant to sit a few feet away at least.

I have no idea how much this will cost or if it makes any financial sense whatsoever, but I fooled around with changing the windows.

Views are less nice than they appear, but it does face south so could let in some more light even with filtering shades.

hi there
my table is 29" wide and 30" deep. surprisingly functional! my house is a 1942 cottage. good luck with the remodel.

I have this table in my kitchen. It takes up little space with the leaves down, but is large enough to seat 6 if needed when opened up. The shelves add some hidden storage. Mine isn't from the site, and painted it to match the kitchen.

Here is a link that might be useful: round fold down table

I have the exact same table as technicolor... bought on Overstock for a decent price a couple of years ago. It's held up well and if you want to come to my moving sale in May, you can get it way cheaper yet! I usually leave on leaf down and push it against the window, plenty of room for three that way and not too intrusive on the floor space.