Thanks everyone! I did not sign anything...as I mentioned this cabinet maker is pretty old school, no computer programs or anything. I showed him my house plan and how the kitchen was to be layed out and he only asked me about the door style. I should also say that he came highly recommended to us, so we just assumed that he was the best. We live in a VERY small town(2 red lights), so I guess there isn't much competition with the custom guys. I take full responsibility for not knowing any better and just allowing him to build them the way he always has. That is the reason I feel so bad asking him to change anything, I guess. It is my fault for not asking for bigger drawers in the beginning. I just assumed that they would be. This is the first ever house we have built and we really didn't know to ask questions about the hardware, or whether the drawers are dovetail(they are not, I have since learned)I really wouldn't have known what that even meant, had I not found this forum. I just found it too late :(
I did tell him that I wanted some of the wider stacks of drawers and showed him the picture. I guess I showed him too late, because he did add some, in the laundry room!!! I guess I will have to put the silverware in there ;)LOL So, I then had him change one of the cabinet bases to wider drawers in the kitchen, but he left the top drawers small, if that makes sense and just added 2 wider ones below? I hated to ask him to change them but I was determined to have at least a couple wider drawers on bottom, which I also learned on GW. I never gave it a thought before finding this forum. I have paid for the materials used but not his labor yet.
Jalsy6, I love your partial overlay cabinets too. I have to say that the ovelay isn't bothering me as much as the drawers now. There are many beautiful UPDATED kitchens that are partial overlay, so you all have eased my mind on that question with all of your beautiful kitchens.
Christine, you made me laugh. I know you are right, though. Now, where did I put those gonads....he he
I am going to try to get over there today to take some pictures. He doesn't have the doors up yet, just some of the base cabinets, not all. Maybe there is one that is done right, and I just have not seen it yet...wishful thinking here:) Maybe I can put the husband up to having this talk, although he really doesn't see what the big deal is himself. He wants me to stay off the computer before I make us both crazy...

Ok ....so maybe I was wrong in my previous post. The cabinet base doesn't appear to be that small, so why would he have made the drawers so small? I know almost nothing about cabinetry construction but that seems so odd. I did not have measuring tape with me when I went over there, but the drawers can not be even a foot. I took a couple pics with my phone but have no clue how to put them on here from a phone, so i will try later from home.. My new question... How hard will it be to get those drawers doubled in size? Can it be done relatively easy? I just am not liking the quality of the drawers. The cabinets themselves seem to be good quality. Wish i really had known what to look for. Thanks for all your help! It is really appreciated.

If he put double drawers in a single cabinet, then it's a simple matter of sawing out the stile in between the two and remaking the drawer itself to be larger. Not a big deal. Even if he gripes and grouses about it. Tell him to do it, and then plug your ears with your fingers and hum if he's grouchy. Who cares if HE's grouchy? You'll be the permanently grouchy one if you have to live with this mess! You gotta fix it NOW!

This

Thanks holly springs. The Base cabinet is maybe 3 ft. With 3 drawers in it. I have not seen the rest of the bottom cabinets because he had not brought them over yet. I really am hoping they are bigger. I will have to get it fixed but am so tempted to get someone else to do it.

The overlay will not affect the drawer size, only the size of the drawer head.
Your cabinet maker needs some vitamins or something. Almost EVERY kitchen today has some large drawers, just because they can!

I totally understand how you feel and have learned the hard way to treat these professionals like babies and explain,ask, and don't assume anything. (I know there are professionals that stay abreast of the trends, pay attn to detail, and make sure they understand what you want-some of us unfortunately have not found them). You showed him those pics, you should expect it to look like those pics.

I was obsessed with the full overlay bc I thought it was more updated. I saw Bee's gorgeous kitchen and decided to keep my partial overlay to save money.

I have 2 10in drawers, my silverware is in one of them, there are silverware drawers made that size. I have 1 6in drawer, I can't even fit a trivet in it-that is something you definitely don't want to live with.

With the support of my GW friends, I have found my voice-and it feels good! (This doesn't take away the frustration I have with my husband for not being supportive.) Another thing I've realized is I don't have to be friends with them, I will never see them again, and if asked abt their work-I would never make a recommendation. Don't pay someone else to do it!!

I prefer fingers in my ears, screaming "WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP" like I do in the movies.
Does it surprise you I always have a lot of room to stretch out?

If he gives you trouble, make a concerned face and ask, "Have we discussed the toe kick drawers I wanted? I can't find that in my notes."

Perhaps he'll RUN home and fix your drawers. BTW, a 3' base is a good sized. There isn't any reason the drawers should be so small. My 36" cab drawers are 33" on the inside. Of course I think the top drawer heights are STUPID, because they're so shallow. It does sound like you need to be extremely specific. Do not assume anything! Obviously you two are on different pages. :) Eras, maybe.

I have 2, 12" drawer bases. Now those are really stupid cabinets.
Top drawer: Pot holder. Not holderS, holder.
Second drawer: Large cooking utensils like ladles
3rd drawer: lunch sized paper bags. I don't make lunch.

I'm glad you're going with your overlay cabs. I think worrying about updated or fashionable or "in" is kind of a waste of time. After all. What do we tell kids about that tattoo? And looky now! They're all the rage. Again.

And one final note. If I keep my master bathroom sinks on the front porch, you can surely get away with your silverware in the laundry room. [vigorous head nod] so there.

Just wanted to give you an idea what I am dealing with. Sorry about the quality of the photos, they were taken with a phone. I don't know why I did not move that ladder, oops. Anyhow, have you ever seen such small drawers. Does it look like an easy change? By the way, the island is not in the exact spot it will be, it is just sitting there for now. Thanks everyone!!

Goodness, that is some gorgeous wood. It is going to be beautiful and I think the partial overlay suits it just fine.

So, are those 12" drawers in a 36" base as I think you wrote? I see what looks like a fourth section to the right so maybe I am not understanding correctly. If they are 12" then I do think they are small, since the inside measurement will be even smaller. We have a 15" drawer base for utensils and it's OK but I sure wouldn't want to go smaller (and ours is frameless). I know nothing about cabinet construction but I would think that rebuilding it with one center stile for two 18" drawers would work, if it is not possible for him to remove all the stiles and make big drawers that span the whole space. Also, if those are to be 12" doors down below, I think that space could be difficult to access. But then I see he has given you the same stile spacing in the upper cabinet too, so perhaps I am understanding your measurements wrong.

Thank you nothcarolina! I love the walnut wood. It really is a beautiful wood. Some people think it has too much grain or is too busy, but I find it to be very warm. I think I may have been wrong on the base size. The 4th picture to the right shows the whole base with 4 of those small drawers, but one of them has 2 more underneath(a stack). I have been so confused, I don't even know what I am saying ;)I think you are right about the door size, I hadn't even considered that they may be difficult to access, but you may be right. I know nothing about cabinets really. It just seems odd the way he constructed them when there were so many other options. I hate to be dissapointed, but it just wasn't what I expected.
Whenever we finally move into that house, I will probably be so glad to be done with all this, that I want care about how small they seem...but for now, it is all I can think about. Pitiful, huh?

Just so you guys can see what my initial photo I took to him looked like and notice the drawer stacks. Am I just
crazy?

I hate to be a pest, again. But I will. You pondered about whether you'll even care how small those drawers are once you move in. YOU WILL!! You won't be able to store anything in there. Where are you going to store your pots, pans, cookie sheets, casserole dishes, salad spinner, pitchers, mixing bowls, silverware, glass measuring cups, box grater, etc? That would bug the living daylights put of me after paying so much money! Those small cabs will also be the bain of your existence as you won't be able to fit anything between those stiles. Too small.

You'll pay much, much more in the end both financially and sanity-wise if you don't fix the issues now. Find those gonads yet? :)

Breezygirl, you are not being a pest at all. I know you are so right, now if I could just convince my husband that it really DOES matter. He really thinks I have lost it. I guess I know where he is coming from, because he just wants me to love it and be satisfied but he doesn't want to offend the cabinet man OR spend any more money(if I had to bet)
It really has been one thing after another with this house AND those cabinets. Remember, that I already had the cabinet man to add two of the wider drawers to make a stack(I just don't have a picture of it because that cabinet isn't in the house yet, It will be beside the fridge) I have not even seen it yet, so who knows how it will turn out. The man acted like I was crazy when we asked him to change the base cabinet to drawers. I think he said something like.."I have never seen so many drawers in all my life", I wanted to say...if you had not made so many small ones, then there would not have been soooo many. I mean it seems like it would have been less work to make bigger drawers than ALL those tiny ones. LOL But I kept my mouth shut, as I always have. Then, I let it fester and make me mad. Not healthy, I know.
Sorry to ramble on. I guess you guys are the only ones who care about my kitchen troubles ;)

That is a good idea:)

If you are in an elevator and someone stands on your foot, do you just stand there in silence? What about if you order something at a restaurant but receive something totally different that you don't like? Do you say anything? Have you ever gotten a haircut that you didn't like? Did you like living with it every day in the mirror?

If you don't speak up for yourself in those situations, then there is very little any of us can do to give you the gumption to speak up here. However, there is always a first time for everything! Getting a backbone can be an incredibly liberating experience.

Tradesmen do NOT have to like you. They are in business to make money, not be your friend, or your husband's friend. You are paying them to do a job. There is NOTHING wrong with telling them that the job you are receiving isn't right.

You don't have to be nasty about it, or raise your voice or anything that would make you uncomfortable. You just state, "I really love the cabinets. They are going to be a showpiece in this house. However, I wanted larger drawers than you have given me. I wanted a single drawer in each cabinet, not 3 top drawers in one cabinet. How long will it take you to fix that?" ANd then just be quiet for the answer. If the answer is a bunch of whiny baby crap, then you just repeat the problem and the question, "How long will it take you to fix that?"

A professional would have had you sign off on an actual design and never have assumed anything, and if there was some miscommunication, he would suck it up and make it right. "Old school" may be a bit more of the big baby, but how he feels and how much he whines IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM! Just keep repeating the question until you get an actual answer.

WOW that is some delicious walnut, misty! I can understand how it's completely distracted you from anything silly like drawer sizes. ("What? I'm late for my wedding? Oh, OK. Just let me open and close this walnut cupboard again.")

In terms of extra charges for remaking the drawers, the carpenter will be able to reuse much of what he's already built (all the side pieces) so it won't be like making completely new drawers. If your stock of gorgeous lumber holds out, I'd definitely push for longer drawers, not just for the obvious utility but because that grain is SO BEAUTIFUL and SO HARD TO FIND IN BIGGER LENGTHS that you'll want to admire as much of it in one piece as possible. :-)

People pay zillions just to get walnut veneer in those lengths, not to mention actual lumber. It sounds dumb, but that is likely a real investment that will pay off when you sell the house -- walnut is only getting more rare and expensive all the time. It will be like those priceless huge mahogany wainscoting panels in old Victorians.

Get the bigger drawers! Please don't worry about offending him: he's obviously a good craftsman and wants you to love his work, and he can't be sure of that unless you tell him he's doing exactly what you want. It's not fair to either of you to lie about loving something you don't. Courage!

So, after 74 posts.
What are you going to do?
DH's not going to grow a pair any time soon if he's actually admitting he "doesn't want to make the cabinet maker mad."
So far, there hasn't been a single person here who has said, "you're crazy" or "you're too demanding" or anything similar. Are you afraid your DH is going to be mad if you demand what you dreamed of having?

You can ask us all you want, but poop or get off the pot. It's your gorgeous lumber, your money, your kitchen, and your ball and chain. You can wave the picture in his face again.

What are you going to do? You broke the ice with the wider drawers that ended up in the laundry.... You just need to work on being specific with what you convey. BUT DO IT.

Christine

I know you all think I am crazy...I think I am crazy too. This is a SMALL town where everyone knows everyone and we are relatively new here. I asked the cabinet maker over the phone today, if the other base cabinets (that I haven't seen yet) had any wider drawers than those, for atleast a silverware divider. Do you want to know what he said? "How wide is that"? His whole tone of voice changed and I could tell he was aggravated. He really intimidates me, (I think he does it on purpose)and I promise you all that I have learned me lesson. Mark my words that I will know what questions to ask next time and will make sure they are professional. I spoke with another custom cabinet maker today. He has a website with really high end cabinetry and he is pretty close to us. Way closer in style to what I expected in the beginning. He is coming to look at the cabinets and give me an estimate on what he can do. Honestly, I don't trust the other man to do it the way I want anyhow, so I feel better just to let him finish and move on.
It seems so senseless really, but I have to live in this town where everone knows or is kin to everyone and really don't want to make enemies. I feel like I am going to eventually blow up on this man for making me feel like I am being too picky if I don't just move on. Don't even get me started on the finish. It just isn't the quality I expected and it breaks my heart that I will have to settle for just so-so but I feel I won't have to pay this other cabinet maker any more than I would have to pay the current one for his additional time. I will probably be happier in the long run.
I may be making a mistake, but a little extra money now for my peace of mind and sanity, is worth it to not have to deal with this man anymore. Thanks to all of you for your advice and wisdom. You have made me feel so much better that it isn't just me being too picky. I told him my concern that all the drawers were to small and he never once offered to fix it or make me happy, this other man was soooo nice and told me he was willing to do WHATEVER I wanted and no job was too small. I am impressed already.

Green designs... Now that you mention it I have had quite a few bad haicuts in my day and always went to someone else to fix them. LOL What is wrong with me?? I guess it speaks to my wimpiness;)This man knows what I want and hasn't offered to make it right. I guesss that speaks to his character too:(
Circuspeanut, thanks! I think that is what my husband is thinking.They are JUST cabinets but They are walnut cabinets for goodness sakes, just be happy:)He thinks they are beautiful and can't understand why I am not happy. BLess his heart, he works hard so that I can stay home and I know it bothers him that they are not what I wanted. He said he would say something to the man, but I know he REALLY doesn't want to have to.
I don't doubt for one second that you ALL are so right. I hate confrontation, always have. I really wish I could be more assertive and maybe this will make me be that way in the future. Who knows?
Christine, you remind me of my best friend. She would tell that man where to stick it in a heartbeat ;) Our personalities have always balanced each other out. Thanks for your help in all this. Now why are your sinks on the porch again? ha ha

I'm sorry but they need to be ripped out and redone to the design that you ordered. Besides, those small drawers do nothing for you.

I'm sorry - but your uppers... there is one dividing shelf... appearing to be fixed in the middle.... leaving you two shelves for each cupboard.

please tell me there are other shelves that you can install at varying heights.

as far as drawer width is concerned, the absolute SMALLEST I'd want to have is a 15" drawer in a frameless cab or an 18" drawer in a framed cab. I would much, much, much prefer larger drawers, but I think those are the smallest drawers that fall in the "usable" category. My (older) kitchen cabs which need to be replaced are framed... the 18" drawer has just UNDER 13" usable space inside it.

Then call your cabinet guy and tell him to FREEZE.
No longer wasting that gorgeous wood you have. No more "fixing".

Just stop.

Have you learned to be specific? Write things down? Offer measurements? GET What you're asking for and PAYING for?

Do what feels good, but don't set yourself up to be screwed again by vague instructions and perceived, self-imposed pressure. Gawd, I hate to see you guys try to buy a car. But that's another nightmare.

Have you called, in between that post and my rant?
I hope so.

My sinks are on the porch because my vanities are in the MBR, after spending 2 years in the driveway.
All my "issues" stem from $$, or lack thereof.

Dearheart, if you're anywhere close to MD, I'll drive to be your backbone. Of course, you'll have to deal with DH's resentment of some stranger wearing the gonads.

I am not even going to ask if you've learned anything from this (other than to be VERY SPECIFIC), because it's evidently your nature. And your DH's, which is probably why you're together. I predict building resentment. But that's another psychological study.

I'm actually serious. I'd be more than happy to road trip to not only fire this guy (being another outsider from another, 2-stop light town) and interview/interrogate the new guy. Girlie, there's something to be said for being the b!tch that won't settle for being intimidated, and getting what SHE wants with HER material. Take my word for it. Someone who knows her stuff. Get real. Who's going to settle for what you're being pressured to do when push comes to shove?

In the meanwhile, there could be (another) sheriff-ette in town. [brushing off knuckles] and that would be ME.

Ok. I'm stalking this thread, girl. When the town quits being the reason (since they are not living in you're kitchen,) you're ready to quite acquiescing to being screwed, you LMK. I'm here for 'ya.

oceangirl67 ...that is not an option, unfortunatley. We can not afford to start over. Time wise or money wise. Starting over would cost US more walnut, and I am not willing to do that. I don't hate those cabinets. They are not what I asked for, but I do think they will be pretty when they are done.Maybe not as functional as I had hoped, but I am hoping the new cabinet maker can help to make them that way.

Thanks Christine! That road trip sounds so fun!! I can just see you now. It makes me giggle. It really warms my heart that a complete stranger cares enough to even reply to these threads, let alone, try to help me:) Unfortunatley I am a long way from MD...lol. I am in TN. I can soooo relate to the $$$ or lack thereof, TRUST me. You have NO idea...

A little background... if anyone cares...I am a stay-at-home Mom to three kids. We moved up here from AL 4 years ago( from a pretty new house, 1800 sq ft in a neighborhood, in the city) to a 50 yr old house that is 900 sq ft at the most, in the "sticks" with..I kid you not...2 cabinets and 2 drawers. We wanted the kids to experience the country life on the family farm. We really do love it.

It has been quite the adjustment though, so I promise you that whatever this kitchen turns out to be, it will be better than we have now.

This house we are building is FAR from a dream house and that kitchen is no "dream kitchen". We are building what we can comfortably afford. We will never sale this house. This land has been in my husband's family for a very long time. We are here to stay.

This forum has been both a blessing and a curse to me. I see sooo much of what I like with all of your beautiful kitchens, but I know that most everything I like is out of my price range. Can you say ENVY? LOL BUT I accept the fact that unless we inherit some big money (not happening, our families are not rich), OR win the lottery (that we do not play), this is it for us. I am completely satisified with that though. I don't need fancy. This house will still be nicer than anything I had growing up, and I will be thankful.

DH and I have been together for 22 years now. What is funny, is that neither of us are really passive to one another. Passive may be the wrong word to use for the DH, anyway. He used to be quite the bad a%%, for lack of a better word. ALways in a fight. lol This particular situation, with everything that has went wrong already, with the construction and everything...he is just burned out. Over it, if you will.

I really have learned SO SO SO much from all of you. I know what to ask for and that I need to be specific with the new cabinet man. I am confident that things are going to be satisfactory when all is said and done.

I have got to stop letting this kitchen consume my thoughts. It really is JUST a kitchen. I have to remind myself daily. I have 3 precious children to take care of and life will go on, tiny drawers or not:)

I'm still stalking this thread.
It's only 10 hours away.

Lol Christine! Come on down ;)

You say you don't have much money, but you're WASTING your money letting this guy make completely UNfunctional cabs and WASTE your gorgeous wood! I agree, as per usual, with Christine. Make the guy STOP now. If you can't tell him to make what you want, just have him put the tools down and back slowly away from your dwindling wood supply.

Breezy, he has completely finished building everything, doors and all. He just hasn't brought them all over to the house and installed them. I have not seen the rest yet, since asking him to add that stack of wider drawers, but they are complete. Thankfully we had 1000 ft of walnut boards, so we still have a good bit left. I am going to let him finish installing them and get the house complete, and the new man will build new drawers or change anything we decide after the install.

OK, I'm late to the party here, as usual, but I'm going to chime in anyhow.

I ripped out a 1959 kitchen where every drawer was 10 inches wide or less. It was USELESS and absolutely frustrating. Awful. Really Awful. In my new kitchen, I did drawers on the lowers everywhere and the cabinet maker said, "Wow, that's a lot of drawers". Yes, it is. All of my drawers are HUGE, 18-40", yes, 40" and they are WONDERFUL. I love them. DO NOT let this guy continue with the little drawers, every time you open one it'll irk you. Every time you want to put something away and it doesn't fit, it'll irk you. How many times a day do you do something in your kitchen? Is that how many times a day you want to be irked? He isn't going to like it and tell yourself that it's OK. It IS OK. Better him unhappy than you unhappy. His unhappy goes away when he's done with your kitchen. Your unhappy continues as long as you live in that house. You know The Voice you use with your toddler when you want him to understand that you *really mean business*? The Voice that you use when you're talking to him about running across the parking lot without holding your hand, or talking about whether he can unbuckle the harness on his car seat while you are driving down the road? The Voice that scares him just a little teensy bit, and says "There will be no discussion about this. In this matter, you will do exactly as I say"? That's the voice you need to use with your guy. No matter what he says, no matter what his objection may be, point to your picture and say, "I understand. However, in looking at the example I gave you, clearly the drawers you've made are much smaller. I must insist that the drawers may be no narrower than "X". I really can't negotiate on this point". Thank him politely for taking care of this matter, and keep repeating it until he capitulates. If you are polite and persistent, you will win the day and what can he say? You were nice about it after all. But, do not let him push you around-after all, he does work for you. And, a reputation for being kind but firm is not a bad one to have in a small town. A reputation as someone who can be bullied IS a bad one to have, and will haunt you forever. Buck up, girl. This is not a nitpicky detail, this is something that affects the way your kitchen functions. Make him fix it.

Good luck!
Cj

Seriously, I would not trust someone who built only one shelf, a fixed shelf at that, in the upper cabinets to 'fix' anything. You can't even get another shelf in those cabinets without completely removing the face frame. And all those stiles between narrow doors! Oh my, oh my.

IMO, the sooner she has all the remaining materials in her possession and this dude on his way out the door, the better off she is. At this point, having him 'fix' anything is throwing good money after bad.

Ci lantro, I hadn't even thought about the fixed shelves...I have lived in several houses and I can't recall ever having adjustable shelves in any of them. Is that really the norm? Do you all have adjustable shelves in your kitchens? Oh, goodness, something else to worry about. I may very well lose my mind ;) I do appreciate you bringing it to my attention, though. It would appear that would NOT be an easy fix though at this point. Am I wrong? Anyone?
CJ, I am kicking myself EVERY single day, for not researching the whole drawer thing before we started this whole thing. I think that would be the coolest thing to have nothing but drawers in the bases. You are very fortunate. I have owned 4 houses now, and only had 1 stack of drawers in each house, not even 1 in the current house. I really thought that me asking for 3, (in that inspiration picture), would be plenty. Then I found this forum and how everyone raved about their drawers and I sooo wished I had asked for nothing but drawers. Now, I really wish I had the money to start over from scratch and make all these changes everyone has recommended, BUT there really is NO way that can happen. We have already went over budget on several things regarding this build and I refuse to be house poor over it. I will have to settle for some things I don't like. Unfortunately :(
As you can tell from the photos, this is not going to be any gourmet kitchen. I am no gourmet cook. If I could have done it my way from the beginning...It'd have been way bigger, double ovens, drop in range, hood above that, microwave drawer, pot filler, etc. LOL A girl can dream, right? This is just a modest house, though. It would look silly in this little house. If I could have built my dream home, on the other hand....let's not even go there:)

Thanks everyone for all of the encouragement! I am starting to feel like the little engine that could. I think I can...I think I can...

It'd...did I really just type that? "IT WOULD", or It would've. I must be really tired goodnight;)

I think you are doing the right thing, consulting the new carpenter. He might have some great ideas.
And no, my shelves in my 5300 square foot home are NOT adjustable and I think most people's upper shelves are fixed. So don't worry about that.
Your walnut is beautiful and will look great. Keep an eye on the remaining wood, it is precious and I'd be afraid some might "disappear"!
Organization will be the key. We all have so much JUNK in our kitchen cabinets and drawers that we never use. You said you are getting many more drawers and cupboards than you ever had before and so you will be happy! If there is an area where you can (later) buy a buffet or freestanding pot rack from Pottery Barn or Ballard Designs, that will really help and look great.
As for your husband, I understand completely how he is "over it all", it doesn't mean he is passive. It was just a misunderstanding and lack of planning. That is why hiring a designer to look over the plans for a flat fee of a couple of hundred dollars might be a good idea for those reading these posts. I am sure your home will be lovely.
May I say you are VERY lucky to be living away from the busy city and on the family farm, especially since those 3 kids will have a wonderful childhood there, rather than being in a home with a 100,000.00 kitchen with a pot filler and refrigerator drawers and wine fridge! Your priorities are right.

Hey Misty -- I can understand your reluctance to face down a strong personality in a small town.

Course I also think everyone else, Christine in particular, is right about hefting some gonads (maybe you could store them in those skinny drawers when you're done with them).

But the guiding light -- which you seem to have beaming nicely from within you too -- is the steady stream of comments about how beautiful your wood is. You're in a horrible quandry, it seems you've found a reasonable out given the constraints, and at the end of the day you'll still have that gorgeous wood to come back to. Good luck in straightening out the details.

I wonder if it will help to take a deep breath and approach dh with some more calm, reasoned conversation about your concerns. There's nothing like winning over your nearest and dearest to help strengthen your resolve in tricky situations. Maybe if he were more aligned with your feelings about this it would be easier to take on the strangers? Because you are dead-on right of course. Those drawers are just silly; it's that sort of cabinetry that you were trying to escape.

Line up your support-ducks first. You might have to live with dh as long as the faulty drawers ;)

Misty, there's nothing wrong with fixed shelves. What's wrong with your cabinets is that you have only one fixed shelf when you should have two, judging by the height of your cabinets. In order for you to have two shelves, the face frame (and all the mouldings, too) will have to be removed and that shelf and the ledgers need to be un-fixed and repositioned either higher or lower in the cabinet and another shelf added.

Think back to other kitchens that you've used. How many shelves were in the upper cabs?

Of course, you can do nothing & live with what is going to be a pretty kitchen. The cabinets won't be optimally functional but, if you're not into cooking much, then it won't really matter a whole lot. You'll adapt. I've been living with kitchen drawers that are only 10.5'' wide for the last 15 years and have been glad to have any drawers. We're in the process of building new cabinets and I'm doing wide drawers & quite a few of them. Coming from skinny drawers, they look almost wrong!

In my collection of many, many cabinets, I have 3 installed with fixed shelves.

I. Hate. Them.

In all, my more modern cabinets the shelves are adjustable and I can do anything I want.

If I actually buy a new cabinet someday, I will NOT have fixed shelves. I'm not even sure they make them that way anymore! Even the 2, gorgeous cherry W2142 cabs my DH brought home from a job, have adjustable shelves.

I also can't wrap my noggin around "no money" and paying someone to rebuild your entire kitchen. But having the reputation as a push-over because someone talks more firmly than you? Oh, that's a good start.

It does sound like he's used to using "the voice" on his clients and lo! It works again.

Crazy.

Thank you everyone for your replies and kind words!
Update!! We went over to a friend's house this afternoon. One of the many people who recommended this cabinet guy to us. Boy did I want to let him have it ;) lol JK
Anyhow, so I asked to take a good look at his cabinets. Wouldn't you know, they looked nothing like mine. He had several wide drawers, not stacks, but plenty big enough for a silverware divider with room to spare on both sides. UGH!! His cabinets, themselves looked wider, too. I did not have a measuring tape and thought it might be rude to ask to borrow his...but much different than mine.

The good news in this...the DH sees my point a little more clearly now and realizes the man just skimped on our cabinets. We thought this might just be his "way" of doing cabinets, but clearly he knows HOW to make wider drawers, so why in the heck did I get miniature ones!!
Anyhow, DH is meeting with the man tomorrow to discuss my concerns.

I will say that they DID have fixed shelves...but I think I can live with fixed shelves much better than those darn drawers. Atleast better than wasting a bunch more wood and making him start over, anyway.

I did not mention earlier that we do have a pretty good sized panrty built in the new house that does not show in those pics. So, if I lay it out efficiently, I can store the things that won't fit in those cabinets in the pantry. I shouldn't have to, I know. BUT I can.

Also, we have more cabinets in our laundry/mudroom than a lot of people have in their kitchen. So storage, really shouldn't be that big a deal. Those drawers, on the other hand, they will bug the stew out of me, I know you are all right about that!
] Thanks again everyone!! I will let you know how that meeting goes:)

Entrenous, thank you very much for your kind words. You are so very right about hiring a kitchen designer. If only I could go back and start over. Even just consulting on here, would have been so valuable. You all have so many great ideas and advice:) If anyone is just starting this process...I HIGHLY recommend another set of eyes to make you see things that you would not have thought of otherwise.

I forgot to say above that the friends kitchen was much larger than mine. Maybe that is why his cabinets and drawers were much bigger. Maybe "old school" builds them based on kitchen size. Wacky...but possible. Who knows? I am a nervous wreck about DH meeting with this man today. I am afraid the man will get smart with DH and it's will get ugly...hopefully not. We shall see.

I would suggest you quit trying to reason why this Jackass decided how your kitchen should be -- other than the fact you gave him free run and as far as we can see, very few specifics.

Just hope DH keeps his gonads on and doesn't wimp out if the guy talks mean. If anything, I hope for you guys that such a tone of voice would royally p!ss him off. It should have YOU, all this time, but that's another rant.

I wait with bated breath to hear DH's success story.

Well...the meeting went.... ok. He addressed most of my concerns. He is removing that base cabinet and making 2 of the tiny drawers into one on that base. He is also removing the stile on the bottom of that base(under the 2 drawers that will be replaced)to allow for more storage underneath. Short of tearing out the whole kitchen and starting over...there are not many options to fix the width of those top cabinets or make them adjustable, so I will have to live with that or fork out more money and have less to spend elsewere.

By the way, he said he made them that way (narrow) because using that space for two really wide doors would not have looked right in that small kitchen. Excuses, Excuses ;)

DH practically told the poor guy I hated everything about those stinkin' cabinets, so it should be very awkward to be face to face with this man from now on. I feel a little guilty, I must admit.

DH was very specific that he could change those drawers or we could get someone else to change them, and the man said he would change them but that we have to understand that nobody likes to redo something they have already finished. The nerve of this man astounds me. Anyhow, DH got a little smart and said HE needed to understand that we have to live in that nonfunctional kitchen and he could fix it or we'd get someone else to. Sooo, we shall see how the finished product turns out.

I am still a little dissapointed that they are nothing like what I asked for, but I will get over it, I always do. To have to start over and possibly have to purchase more wood, is really not an option for us. Deciding whether it would bother me more to spend more money on cabinets and have less to spend on the finishes...or let it go and make the best of what I will have, was hard. In the end, I think the drawers were my biggest concern and they will be better. Not exactly what I envisioned but atleast they won't ALL be totally useless anymore. I know it isn't quite the success story you were hoping for (Christine, ;)) but if I have learned anything in this life...it is that you do have to make compromises sometimes, especially if money is tight. So I will chalk it up to another lesson learned and move on. I will know better next time I deal with anyone I pay to do a job for me, that is for certain.

Thanks again for the advice. I am sure I will need you all again soon, for countertops and backsplash help and all that jazz ;)

"compromises if the money is tight."

Huh?

I'm glad your DH didn't let the guy railroad him.
I'd be more worried about the subsequent quality of the redo, based upon the guy's "no one likes..." comment.

And most of all, I'm glad you're getting some of those dumb drawers changed! You won't be swearing at them every time you have to go to the laundry for silverware.

C.

I just meant by that...that when you are on a strict budget, you don't always get exactly what you want... Or I don't anyway. Maybe everyone else does? I have had to settle on many things in this process that aren't exactly my first choice but are within my budget. If I had plenty of money, sooo many different things about that kitchen would be different. So many things about the whole house would be different, for that matter.

I was concerned about the quality too, and worse case, I still have to get the other cabinet guy I spoke with to come and make improvements. Atleast, i tried to give this guy the chance to make it right. I guess I will have to cross that bridge if or when I come to it.

I appreciate your responses. Goodluck with all of your projects. I wish we had a Forklift place around here. That sounds like my kind of place:)

I have been following this thread for several days.

I think some posters are coming down too hard on the cabinet maker. It is easy to say well "all he has to do is" when you are not knowledgeable about the process of building or manufacture. Every change order requires a new setup. When he quoted the job he took into consideration his time, his labor,things he would have to supply to finish the job and his overhead.

Yes he built the cabinets more to form over function but he's a cabinet maker. He's not a kitchen designer or a chef!
When I saw the pictures it was obvious he was going for symmetry and scale. According to the OP he wasn't given a plan or told what the functions of the cabinets should be. He was merely given a picture to show an "idea" of what was wanted.

He's probably lost money on this job. The op hasn't said anything about change order charges so he's eating the difference. He was merely being honest by his comment that tradesmen don't like to rebuild. It COSTS them money. This is his livelihood.

I credit the op with her honesty. She knows she didn't have her ducks in a row. She is lucky he is willing to work with her to make things somewhat better.

Mistydatn - It is very easy to get caught up in all the things that are brought up on this forum. People end up wanting things they would never want or need but get sucked in by all the "dream kitchens". In reality a lot of people who come here buy things they don't need or want. I am always amused when I see questions here and on the appliance forum like which is the best, what do I do with it now that I have it, I didn't think it would be that big, that small and on and on. There are a lot of folks that put in expensive ranges and end up doing all their cooking in their micro and wall oven. Some buy infrared broilers but never use them. The add grills instead. Prep sinks are never used. Work islands become cluttered with mail and homework. People think that buying high end will make them good cooks. A good cook can cook over a campfire. The most expensive kitchen and all the bells and whistles will not make a bad cook into a good one. This doesn't apply to everyone but there are enough to make one shake one's head.
Look at Julia Child's kitchen. It was ALL about function. Recently there was a post about pot racks. pretty easy to see who the real cooks are on that thread. LOL My brother was a cook by trade for years. he now cooks for himself in a little manufactured home kitchen. My son is a bit of a gourmand. He regularly cooks for 30 or more friends in a kitchen the size of closet. The only counter space he has is the spot over the dishwasher. He built his own sous vidi. He makes most everything from scratch, cooks most of the meals and his GF does all the baking.

You are going to end up loving your new kitchen because it is better than what you had. Don't let kitchen envy get in the way of how you want your life to be. Make your kitchen about the meals you prepare for that family of your. Make family memories in that kitchen. Good parents have t done that in postage stamp kitchens for generations. You sound like a good parent. The kitchen is just things. It's the people in it and the food that comes out of it that makes it real. yes there will be things you wish you had but that is human nature. Enjoy your home, your family and your new kitchen. Perspective.

Breezy, he has completely finished building everything, doors and all. He just hasn't brought them all over to the house and installed them. I have not seen the rest yet, since asking him to add that stack of wider drawers, but they are complete. Thankfully we had 1000 ft of walnut boards, so we still have a good bit left. I am going to let him finish installing them and get the house complete, and the new man will build new drawers or change anything we decide after the install.

Thank you Wildchild:) Funny, my DH and I just had a discussion last night about it being JUST a kitchen and JUST a house for that matter. I am slowly coming back down to reality ;)

You are so right that it's easy to get caught up with all of these "fancy" kitchens on here. I completely agree. I look at some of them and ooh and ah but I never planned to do any of that. My original picture I showed the man, is still pretty plain.
In my defense though, I did specify two wide stacks of drawers on each side of the oven. I got two stacks on each side of the oven but the are 8 1/2 inches on the inside of the drawers. I would hardly call that wide.
The man will not lose any money on redoing them, though. We are paying for the materials and time. I wouldn't have felt right to ask him to change them and him lose money on it.

Thank you very much for putting it all into perspective. You are very wise. I know we will be happy, no matter what, because we know that we are blessed:)

So you specified two wide drawer stacks on each side of the range. He didn't do what you told him. And now you're PAYING him more money to make what you asked him for in the first place??

Breezygirl...I know, I know. I guess we can call it a miscommunication. I am sure the man thinks it is all me and I think it is mostly him. Since the pictures are pretty clear that they should have been wider, I am thinking, he must not have paid too much attention to that picture, since they look nothing alike. I really should have been more specific. I promise I have learned my lesson. This was my first time to deal with a contractor and I now know to spell it out for them.

Again, I am not saying it is neccessarily the right thing to do to pay him more, but I wouldn't feel right with him doing more work and not getting paid at all. It is not costing us that much more, and I will be able to sleep at night knowing that I tried to do the right thing atleast. Because I know that I obviously should have been more clear.

I just found this thread. I would tend to agree with an earlier poster who said it wasn't fair to the cabinetmaker. Nothing was specified or written down. *He* had to ask about door styles and then the customers just flashed a photo in front of him and that was it? That means he was given carte blanche and he did what *he* thought best in what was probably his first stint as a kitchen designer. If it didn't match the client's unvoiced expectations, whose fault is it? If they had bothered to specify big drawers, it would have been easier for him- less labor and materials than a bunch of little ones. It's possible that, had the clients spoken up as soon as they realized they didn't like what he had done, the cabinetmaker could have accommodated some/more changes. Instead, they got on their computers and chatted about their disappointment for a week before having a substantive discussion with him. And even their disappointment was vague, in one week they couldn't get themselves sufficiently motivated to grab a measuring tape...

I have shared the blame for not being specific enough. I do have to say though, that he had a clear picture of the style and the amount of drawers I wanted. I DID specify that I wanted a stack of WIDE drawers for pots and pans. I would hardly call 8 1/2 wide. That was the point everyone was making here. You can't get a whole lot clearer than a picture showing exactly what you had in mind. I appreciate your response and will agree that I went about some things wrong, but there were several conversations between he and I about my concerns that were swept under the rug until the meeting with the DH. I just don't think he respected me as a woman as much as when my husband had the concerns. That is just my opinion. The other point people were making is that even without a clear picture...there are basics of cabinetry in this day and age that you'd think any good cabinet maker would know that he apparently doesn't. Walking in any big box store gives you a good idea of what people expect with cheaper cabinets and custom should meet or exceed those expectaions. You would think, anyway.