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Beginning Kitchen Layout... lost!

Posted by JSpann (My Page) on
Wed, Feb 12, 14 at 11:19

I am waiting to hear from our cabinet man to start designing our kitchen.... in the meanwhile,
I have been pouring over the kitchen forum, clipping, note taking, searching, and more searching.

...And now I just feel kind of lost!

I feel like the more I read, the more confused I am getting about where I should place the basics - sink, prep sink, refrigerator, oven, range, dishwasher, etc.

I LOVE the zone concept, but am having difficulty deciding just where things should be placed. (particularly the wall oven). Or the refrigerator... closer to the entryway, or closer to the dining area?

I was originally opposed to a sink on the parameter, but I have "seen the light" and see the wisdom and the beauty of an additional prep sink.

We're a current family of 5, planning to be at least 6. I *think* I will be doing a range + a second, single wall oven. Not opposed to a rangetop + double ovens though.

As is, the pantry will also have a small door in the garage so I can slide bags into it from there. I am not opposed to making a 'cabinet walk-through" in the kitchen to the pantry, if you think its worth being able to enter the pantry in the middle of the kitchen and if it is worth losing cabinet real estate.

Just looking for some input to "get things rolling"!

Thank you!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Beginning Kitchen Layout... lost!

This is to show just how confused I am... haha

Also, I think we'll prob square off that island... just fyi


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RE: Beginning Kitchen Layout... lost!

Why square off the island? It is much nicer to sit at an island if it has some curve to it. JMHO.


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RE: Beginning Kitchen Layout... lost!

Just my opinion, but I like the layout with fridge at the top right, sink and DW on bottom, prep sink on island. I would not want seats on the top and bottom of the island. It is hard to tell without actual measurements, but it seems tight. I do like the curve, actually.


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RE: Beginning Kitchen Layout... lost!

I like the fridge at the top too, because it's closest to the dining table, and the little table I see on the porch/deck.

I'd put the sink and dish storage opposite the island (or in the island), for the same reason.

That leaves the bottom wall for the cooktop, but then I don't know where the wall ovens would squeeze in. Since you have such long runs, perhaps this would be a good place for a corner cooktop? Often we worry about wasting space, but you have room to spare. Cooktop in the corner, wall oven at the end of the bottom run.

If you're going to have such a huge pantry, can you allow room for a small upright freezer? I have one in the basement, but it would sure be handy closer to the kitchen.


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RE: Beginning Kitchen Layout... lost!

I would not want seats on the top and bottom of the island.

And just to show there are varying opinions on here (LOL), I do, because I don't understand why anyone would want to sit in a straight line (like at a diner) to eat. I would just want to hand everyone a newspaper, because I don't think there would be any conversation in a straight-line configuration.


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RE: Beginning Kitchen Layout... lost!

You need to plug in the actual dimensions into your sketches. You don't have nearly enough clearance for the massive island that you show. That's the first issue. 11' wide on the dining area is also tight when you have to carve a walkway out of it. The first thing I'd do would be to change that door to the pantry from where you have it to the mudroom. That way, groceries can come straight into the house and get placed where they need to go. Then shrink the island by at least 25%, maybe more.

You simply do not have the space to do everything that you've shown as you've shown it.


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RE: Beginning Kitchen Layout... lost!

i too like the design where the fridge is at one end of the run and dw at the other. i find that i always wish for more prep space between my stove and sink (L shaped kitchen) i have other counters to prep on but then i am walking to my stove to put the cut veggies, etc in the pan. islands are great but if you prep there, you will have to bring your prepped food to the stove to cook. i am a super klutz and would end up with a lot on the floor:)


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RE: Beginning Kitchen Layout... lost!

Wanted to add also agree to the design with the fridge at one end. Ditto what arcp said.


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RE: Beginning Kitchen Layout... lost!

ardcp and debrak2008, you both need to get one of these -- my favorite "new" gadget from my last kitchen remodel.

Here is a link that might be useful: Prep Taxi


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RE: Beginning Kitchen Layout... lost!

sjhockeyfan, That does seem useful. What that doesn't prevent is my dog (75 lbs) from sneaking up and laying down behind me. So when I try to turn I have to catch myself from falling, LOL. He would love that little gadget as then the food in the scoop will fall on the floor so he can eat it. He is very smart ; )

I do most of my prep on the perimeter between the sink and the range. Any chopping takes place there. I use the island for rolling up burritos or rolling dough, stuff like that.


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RE: Beginning Kitchen Layout... lost!

In my old kitchen (previous home) I had a prep area between cooktop and prep sink, as well as an island. In my new kitchen, all my prep is done on the island (industrial loft with concrete floor - no choice to move any of the appliances from the wall), so the Prep Taxi is highly useful! By the way, you know Murphy's Law, this is sort of a take-off --- the longer the island, the more linear feet you will use to prep. I made a sort of Mexican sloppy joe dish the other night, and used fully 6' of my 10' island!


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RE: Beginning Kitchen Layout... lost!

While the length of the DR is (barely) adequate for family dining, it won't be for when you entertain. And the width is much too shallow. The island you picture is about 3' too long, and overly ambitious as to how many people you can sit there comfortably. Also, with the table there within sight, seating for that many is beyond redundant.

This post was edited by live_wire_oak on Wed, Feb 12, 14 at 14:00


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RE: Beginning Kitchen Layout... lost!

Lop off 3' off of the island, add 2' to the width of the breakfast area, and it's much more workable.


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RE: Beginning Kitchen Layout... lost!

Livewire, how about the width of the island? The room is 13'9" and the island [was] 4'9" wide. Even if the aisle on the cooktop side is only 3', that would leave only 2' behind the stools for the passageway, no?


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RE: Beginning Kitchen Layout... lost!

Wonderful feedback! Thank you everyone. I was away from home for a few hours and returned to all of this…!

Sounds like a good consensus of keeping the fridge near the table. That helps narrow it down! Would you put the oven next to the fridge or keep it away from each other? just curious... I saw a layout on here from someone else and they were right next to each other and for some reason in my mind I never thought to allow that.

I just wanted input on the general idea of where you’d recommend putting appliances, but, since other things came up… lets go for it! :)

The island: It is definitely oversized for the area. In the image I’ll include, it appears to me to be about two feet too long (depending on just how wide an aisle we want/need). The only reason I thought we’d square it is because I assumed rounding would cost more… but, if it isn’t a big difference, I am not opposed to having it rounded (and seating would be easier that way! Thanks for the insight). I need at least 4 chairs there ��" and prob only four would stay there regularly ��" I would not keep one in that kitchen aisle for sure, and the one between the dining nook is questionable (sorry, these are just images the architect put on, not necessarily my vision). I realize the island seating appears redundant, but it is what we want.

I purposely planned the pantry to fit our freezer! No going out to the garage or down to the basement. Yay!

I wondered about the corner cooktop… I will definitely play with that option when I meet w/the cabinet maker.

sjhockeyfan ��" lol at the diner comment!

Live_wire_oak : thanks for all your input! And the PICTURES! Ah, I am so visual and need to see stuff like that. I am not sure if your pictures’ dimensions are accurate or if my dimensions are…. ?? You showed it currently had 36” walkways, but that isn’t what I got at all. ? My mockup on roomplanner showed 48” between island and stove, and like 2’6” (obviously too small : ) ) on the bottom aisle. The picture of the dimensions is ridiculously small for some reason... but thats what those were.
As far as the dining area: that door will swing out (to the screened porch)…. And I don’t plan on a hutch on that right wall, just big windows in that entire area. It was actually 8’8” on the original plan! So 11’ is a great improvement. In Roomplanner I showed 3'3" on the left, just shy of 3' on the back wall, 3'6" to the right (to the wall, not to that hutch thing), and about 4'9" from the table to the counter.
About the pantry... you might have missed in my original posting, but we’ll have an additional door to the pantry in the garage to unload dry goods into the pantry. I wouldn’t want my access from the kitchen to the pantry to be all the way around the corner in the mudroom. At this point I am concerned about accessing it where the door currently is!
If its possible... I'd love to see one of those pictures without the furniture and *hopefully* with the measurements I got :) (if they're right...)


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RE: Beginning Kitchen Layout... lost!

P.S. I show the counter runs as 7'6" x 12'6"


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(Please ignore the 20/20 artifact of the ghost prep sink on the island.)

You will have to have a narrower than normal table in the dining area if you are to have enough room to comfortably use the table. This still shows the DR with the additional 2 feet of width to be able to have clearance between the areas. You'd be back to around 60" between the island and table without that extra 24'' of width. And the pinch point between the chair and end of the cabinet run would never allow you to get to the pantry. That needs to be free aisle space if the pantry is going to be readily accessible, and that is the biggest reason that you need to add the 24" to the dining space.

Since the kitchen is open to the living area, the depth of the island itself isn't as critical as if it were against a wall. However, I did shallow up the island in order to make it fit the space better. It's basically 42", which is a single row of cabinets with the overhang going from 12" to 15" in a radius. Aisles are a generous 48" and 55" to allow others to move through and to allow multiple cooks to use the space.


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RE: Beginning Kitchen Layout... lost!

In the original plan, there isn't enough room against the far wall for comfortably entering and exiting seating, and to be able to maintain a pathway to the pantry.


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RE: Beginning Kitchen Layout... lost!

I am feeling a little confused... why are my measurements seeming so different from yours? My image is showing 3' between the edge of the "semi-pushed in chair" and the door swing of the pantry. I dont anticipate needing to go in and out of the pantry while someone is lounging in the corner of the dining nook... so, I'm not sure I'm seeing why I need 2 more feet? Sorry, I hope I'm not appearing difficult! Just trying to make sure I understand.

I guess I should mention... its pretty much a one-cook kitchen. Just me :) We're a young family - I have three boys right now - ages 5, 3, and 1 and we hope to have one more child. I do plan to have kids helping prep work, which the island will be great for. I think the 55" might be more generous than I need - I wouldn't expect much traffic in that direction in that spot during the few times I load dishes during the day. I really, really want at least 4 seats at the island. I've seen 9' islands w/5 seats at them, so I am hopeful I can get 4...

Looking at this picture... it looks to me like I might not even have room for a second oven if I go for two sinks? Is this size kitchen better suited to be a one-sink kitchen, perhaps?


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see where you show 36" between the island and stove? my measurement shows 48.... ??


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RE: Beginning Kitchen Layout... lost!

this is pretty poor-looking, haha, but hey... see what I mean?


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RE: Beginning Kitchen Layout... lost!

JSpann, I think you said your room is just shy of 14' wide and the island is just shy of 5' wide. If you have 4' between the island and the stove, that means the counter (2'), aisle (4'), island (4-3/4') and chairs at the island (2') take up nearly the whole width - but there's a pathway behind the chairs at the island (with noplace to put it).


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Sjhockeyfan, yeah, that would be correct. The room is a great room though, so there isn't an issue with a path behind the chairs, per say... The 14' really only applies in the doorway to the mudroom (the space from the counter there to the stairway) otherwise there is no wall there to contend with.

I am not set on a 5' island or anything, I need to go see some islands, read about storage space in different size islands (I would love cabinets on both sides, but I have no idea what that requires, etc) , etc before I firm up the width. If anyone has a link to a thread like that, feel free to share :)


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I hope I have your measurement right. For kitchen I read 13'9x16'4, and DR 17'x11'/

I agree with others that having the fridge near the DR room would be a good idea, but think that having the cleanup + plate/glass storage so far would not be very convenient. At least in our home trips to the fridge are more frequent while we're at the table, whereas, especially during entertainment, prep and setting of the table may overlap. So if you can have a beverage fridge near the DR end of the island, you can move the cleanup nearer the DR. I never had a pocket door, but I guess you can have one to the pantry I moved to pantry door to the kitchen and came up with this.

 photo jspann1a.jpg

 photo jspann2.jpg


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RE: Beginning Kitchen Layout... lost!

Sena01, Thank you for those great ideas! I will definitely have to consider if the refrigerator or the dishes deserve the prime real estate... What program do you use to design your spaces? I feel pretty limited without a good option to mock up at home... I pretty much feel like I have to sit and wait until I meet with the cabinet guy :-/

I really appreciate everyone's time!


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RE: Beginning Kitchen Layout... lost!

I use a program called HomeDesigner Suite[*], but as I'm no expert I my walls sometimes, somehow move, and I don't rely on the automatic measurements. I just add and subtract and write that measurements on the drawing (so check them!). I just use it to visualize the space , and it helped me a lot when I did my kitchen reno at a time when I wasn't aware that this great forum existed.

Btw, I just noticed your post mentioning counter run as 7'6". Does that mean the opening to the kitchen is 75"? If so fridge and oven can't fit there.

[*] not a free program, but there'a free demo on their site you can download (can't save your plans though).

This post was edited by sena01 on Wed, Feb 12, 14 at 19:12


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RE: Beginning Kitchen Layout... lost!

no, I meant that short run -- so its a 4' doorway + 7'6" (ish) counters + 2' of the counters on the other wall to make up that lower wall... if that makes sense.

Thanks for the info about the design software!


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