The GE Monogram lets you use the vents and accept a panel.
But the price for that is the panelled door sits 3/4" forward of other drawers in the stack.

The Monogram has a hollow 3/4" deep front panel that handles the steam, and the wooden panel mounts to the surface of that panel. I'm guessing the Dacor, Wolf & Viking sacrifice the steam option for a flush panel.

Oh no, Sweeby, thats totally unacceptable!
The WD wood panel CANNOT stick out 3/4" beyond the other drawer panels - that would be awful.

I bought the GE Monogram WD and the optional 3/4" wood panel trim kit, but its not installed bec I have no cabinets yet. The specs say its 23-1/4" deep so I assumed there would be no problem. DH and I are going to check this out - right now!

Miele, comes in 27" and 30".

I'm just sick ...
Here's what I found out when I measured my still-to-be-installed GE Monogram WD w/opt wood panel kit:

The existing metal drawer front sticks out 7/8" beyond the flange that is suppposed to be flush against the cabinet face frame. This distance is reduced to 5/8" when you replace the metal drawer front with the optional metal drawer bracket.

BUT THEN you need to add the thickness of the wood drawer front ... and that makes the WD stick out 5/8" (or 3/4") beyond all the other drawers in the cabinet!

What the H##L was GE thinking about when they designed and offered the optional wood panel kit - AND DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THIS IN THEIR LITERATURE!!!

DH seems to think the WD can be recessed back into the face frame a little, and the wood drawer front made a tad thinner. I don't know, seems like a lot of "difference" to eliminate.

Has anyone else experienced this problem? What did you do?

plllog,
I looked at the Miele site.
It says the cabinet panel sits proud of the unit frame by 3/4", but at least it tells you that up front - unlike GE.
Do you have the Miele WD, with the wood panel, or were you just being helpful?

Sorry, being helpful. I'm planning extra deep cabinets so it's not really an issue for me. There was a thread about this on the appliance forum awhile back.

In theory, the Miele should fit in 24", but it's tight (22 15/16" + 3/4"), and the diagrams don't show where the wire is. It plugs into a socket, and obviously the socket couldn't be directly behind. Oh, wait. If you're getting box cabinets with closed backs, and they're precisely 24" deep, or less, well, then you do have a problem. All of these appliances assume open backed cabinets, I believe.

In addition, it says that the panel must be temperature resistant (i.e., no insulation between the drawer and panel) and that vented steam could be a problem in the cabinetry.

plllog,
I don't believe its an issue with the depth of the cabinet box and that having "extra deep cabinets" means its not an issue for you. At least that doesn't look to be the situation with the GE Monogram that I have waiting to be installed, or with the Miele that you linked.

The problem seems to be that ... while the GE Monogram's 1/16" thick flange fits snug against the 24" cabinet (i.e., face frame) ... the metal drawer bracket (that attaches to the wood drawer panel) does not. It sticks out 3/4" so when you add the wood drawer panel, the panel sticks out 3/4" beyond the rest of the drawers!

And the Miele WD also appears to have the same problem. If you look at the diagrams on the Miele, it says/shows the cabinet drawer panel sits proud (in front) of the unit frame by 3/4", and it looks like (but its not clear) the 1" deep unit frame sits in front of the 24" cabinet box.

I hope I'm making myself clear. It looks to me like Sweeby is correct when she said the GE Monogram WD sticks out 3/4" beyond the other cabinet drawers. Now, how can we fix it so it doesn't?

Sweeby, how did you find out that the GE Monogram WD sticks out 3/4" beyond the rest of the drawers? Did you experience this yourself?

Sweeby IS correct. That's why I posted this question in the first place. I've spent a lot (alot!) of time researching this, and Dacor seems to be the only warming drawer which fits flush against the cabinets if you put on a panel. Possibly also the Wolf or Viking, but you lose the humidity control option when you add the panel, which I want. I was hoping that possibly someone on this board knows some other obscure brand which handles this situation.

It seems like the best bet (for me, anyway) is to get the stainless steel door, which will just look like another appliance on the wall.

Napagirl, it might be better that you found out now - can you still do something about it? Please let me know.

I have to give credit to my KD who made me aware of this situation. She sometimes seems to take forever to do things, but when she does she's right on the mark.

The 'flushness' of the panel is the exact reason I'm doing the Dacor WD. The Wolf drawer I saw at an open house must not have been installed right, because I've heard they install flush too. From across the kitchen I could tell this drawer was a warming drawer because it sat out just enough to not look flush and alert me to it being an appliance. Napagirl, I hope you can return your WD and get what you want OR make your GE drawer work! Good luck!

I just measured my sample cabinet door front and it is 3/4" deep. Wouldn't the panel need to stick out that far to match the cabinet drawers and doors? Or are you all saying it sticks out 3/4" + the panel? I have the Miele coming....

I was just looking at appliances last week and the guy at the appliance store told me this about the panels sticking out also. I was looking at the Wolf and the Monogram.

He made another point also -- the danger of not knowing the unit is on with a panel. He said it they almost burned the store down (maybe an exaggeration?) because of a warming drawer they couldn't tell was on.

just another thing to consider. I was going to panel but do not want it to stick out and I am very much one for forgettng to turn off appliances. I have to check for which ones have an automatic shut-off

The Wolf and Dacor have automatic shut off timers. Get in the habit of turning on the timer when you turn on the WD and it will never be on longer than four hours.

But you STILL have to remember to get leftover food out before it stinks!! ;-)

Have you checked out KitchenAid?

Here is a link that might be useful: KitchenAid Warming Drawers

Yes. It also sticks out when it's got the panel. I'll probably end up buying the Kitchenaid, but in the stainless steel.

Napagirl - I found out the hard way. Grrrr!

And despite all of my wacky out-of-the-box thinking and DH's 25+ years remodeling experience, neither one of us could come up with a way to solve the problem. So yes, our WD sticks out 3/4" proud of our other drawers.

As to leaving it on, the Monogram does come with a red plastic button that you can set into a hole in your wooden panel that will show you the unit is on. I didn't do it and have left my WD on twice overnight. Haven't burned the house down yet, though...

If anyone does find a way around this, please, please e-mail me and jump up and down on this forum until I answer. This continues to be a thorn in my side...

helou: "It also sticks out when it's got the panel. I'll probably end up buying the Kitchenaid, but in the stainless steel."

Our KD says it can be done flush. I guess we'll see. Maybe it depends on cabinet style? Anyway, it will be easy enough to switch to stainless if she's wrong, and she says she's willing to pay for it.

In some ways I actually like the KA better than the much-more-expensive Wolf. The difference almost paid for a 240V Advantium.

If you have the crisp option, you need a vent- the steam has to go somewhere.

There's nowhere to vent 'to' if your drawer front is flush with the other cabinetry. Even if you 'scooped' out an area in the top of the door front, you would ruin the cabinet face above with released steam.

Steam rises, so I assume the openings would need to be at the top.

We ended up installing our GE Profile flush, and cracking the drawer a bit when we need the crisp option. Distressingly low-tech, I know, but it works.

Helou - Thank you for posting this thread! You opened the door for others to post about issues I wasn't even aware of.

Sweeby - A big 'THANK YOU' goes to you for letting me know the wood panelled GE Monogram sticks out 3/4"!! If that info had been on their website when I bought it in Dec 2006, the salesperson never would have recommended it and I never would have bought it.

Pecanpie - I think your low-tech solution of cracking the door when you need the crisp option is perfect. I didn't even know about the crisp option, I just wanted a hidden warming drawer.

Sounds like GE should be held accountable for misrepresenting their product! (Their website now states in order to be flush, it can only accept a 1/4" thick panel, but that wasn't there in 2006 when it was recommended to me.)

I've called the appliance store to see if they'll take it back. My orig salesperson is checking w/supervisor, but doesn't hold out much hope. Said she would get back to me Monday. They sell the Dacor, but of course are prohibited from lowering the price to make up for the error on the GE.

FYI, I was told by Standards of Excellence that Dacor:
=> is the only WD that truly disappears when using a custom panel (even the Wolf sticks out a little);
=> has an automatic timer (turns off after 1,2,3,4 hrs);
=> IWD-27 is 23"W x 23"D inside drawer and IWD-24 is 20"Wx23"D inside drawer;
=> dwr side height is 5-1/4"H, but dwr bottom to top of opening is 5-3/4" (inside measuremens are not on website).

PS, Sweeby - Dacor has almost the same RO as GE (within 1/4" & 1/8") just in case you want to switch some day.

Thank you everyone for all your knowledge. Now keep your fingers X'd and wish me luck!

My 27 inch Kitchenaid warming drawer was installed last week. We got it in stainless steel, contractor removed the front panel and replaced it with the drawer front. The moist/crisp switch was not affected (although I haven't used the crisp yet - may have to leave the drawer open a bit as pecanpie suggested)and the drawer front sits flush with the one above and below it. You cannot tell that it's anything other than a regular drawer. Plus, it does a great job of keeping things warm.

sweeby, helou, mo_sgal, and others,

Just wanted to let everyone know the outcome of my GE Monogram warming drawer fiasco. You may recall I bought this WD (and drawer panel kit) believing it would "disappear" and look like all the other drawers in my new kitchen. Through this thread Sweeby alerted me (prior to install) that it would stick out " if I used my own wood panel. Needless to say, I was crushed and angry that in 2006 GE did not mention this in their specs or on their website (they now do).

I immediately contacted my salesperson, Renee at Airport Home Appliance, Hayward, CA. She said they probably would not accept it back because they could not return it to GE as it had been over a year, even though it was not installed and still in the original box. Finally, after much urging and "going further up the ladder", she was able to get the company to credit me $399 toward the purchase of a new Dacor WD and also transfer the extended warranty. While this is by no means a full credit (IÂm still out $325), it is something I can live with  much better than being stuck with the ill-fitting GE Monogram.

So again, thank you Sweeby for alerting me to the poorly designed GE integrated WD and to Airport Home Appliance for stepping forward and taking some responsibility in this WD fiasco. In my opinion the real responsibility here lies with GE for failing to disclose in 2006 that their WD with a panel front will stick out ¾", and refusing to take it back.

Garden Web saved the day ..... again !!!

bump

I'm glad you all were able to get a successful resolution to this and that my own sad tale is able to save others some misery...

Wonder if I could get a panel in a 1/4"...?

errrrr... I'm going to look at my Miele. Everything is flush, but I didn't think of my vents! arrggghhhh

It's flush and the metal that is attached to the font panel has a gap at the top. It hasn't hurt the above drawer and I don't think that the little bit of steam coming out of that drawer will hurt my finish. Afterall it's a warming drawer and not a steamer!

I'm relieved and happy. I love my WD and it is used often

whoooooosh,
Does your Miele WD have a custom front cabinet panel or a standard metal front (like a regular oven)? Linked below is the Miele WD specs and on the 2nd page it says the custom front panel will stand proud of the unit frame by 3/4".

The problem Sweeby and I had was with the integrated custom wood panel front on the GE Monogram -- when you add a wood panel front it stands out 3/4", and in 2006 GE did not mention this very important fact in their specs.

I have custom panel. I took another look because I seem to remember some fuss about that drawer. It looks like my cabinet guys set the unit back by that much thereby making the panel flush.

They added a piece of cherry wood either side and then it was stained to match cabinets.

I don't seem to have a problem with any steam. My tiny pizzas stayed crisp last night, so I guess it is working!

whoooooosh,
I'm glad your cabinet guy was able to modify the installation of your WD. Both Sweeby and I were unable to find a way to make it work for us. The GE has a flange that prevented the unit from being recessed back -- unless you wanted to also cut away the cabinet face frame, which wouldn't leave enough depth for the unit.

Came late to this thread, but have chimed in on the WD ones over on the appliance forum.

Couple of things:

Thermador's previous generation drawers would take a panel (flush) and allow moist/crisp feature. You can still find them on the secondary market as they haven't been gone all that long.

Just about all warmer drawers can be made to fully integrate, it just takes thourough planning and very good execution. You cannot really adapt or modify many exsisting situations to fully flush out a wd front in the field. As I've said in previous threads , this is the most complex appliance integration out there. Your typical cabinet dealer, appliance salesman, cabinet maker or remodeler is way out of his/her depth on these. I've even seen experienced CKD's and installer make a mess of them. It is best to find a designer who has EXPERIENCE with them, particularily the one you are looking at. Chipshot's designer must be one if she's putting her $$$ where her mouth is.

Miele's drawer does flush out if desgned properly. The 3/4" drawing and warning is for those slackards who don't fully think through an integrated install. Anyone who passe 4th grade math should know that if I add 3/4" to something (the frame or flange or drawer of a warming drawer in this case) that the whole gets larger by 3/4" an inch. You'd be suprised how many designers this fails to register on. As long as your wd carcass/ frame / flange is FLUSH with the face of you cabinet carcass or frame the unit with drawer front will be in plane with everything else.

Here's where it gets tough. It matters what type drawer you have. Some have no flange (Dacor) some have huge ones (GE). Width matters, depth of the unit matters, your cabinet depth matters, the elecr. location matters. Cut sheets often show the opening size for a unit but that is not always the dimension that accomodates the unit AND the flange to allow for full integration. If you have faceframe cabinets the sizing will be vastly different from euro constructed cabinets.

The concept is really simple you learned it in nursery school: The square peg in the square hole, the round in the round and the rectangle in the rectangle one. Exectuting it is much harder as tehre are multiple puzzles with pieces that look very similiar but are slightly different.

The Wolf is one of the deepest units on the market, you'll have fewer options with this unit. I believe the GE can be made to be flush/totally integrated. Looking at the drawings it seems that you need only add 1 1/4" to the opening the 9 1/4" opening + 5/8" each side. It may actually require + 1 1/2" as the finished drawer ht. reads 10 1/2" on the spec sheet. This new opening will allow the unit to be flush with your carcass or face frame. Of course your depth increased to at least 24" mabey more and you'll hav elect. box issues to resolve. If this wa our project we'd advise you to use a unit we have a proven record with, Dacor, Miele, or older Thermadors. I you still want x brand we would tell you a: it might not be possible, b: we'll be glad to research it for you at our regular rates - a: still applies, and c: we'll require the unit in our possession before the cabinets are ordered. A: still applies and the unit may not be returnable for a credit.

antss,
Thanks for your knowledgeable update. Wish I had known all that before I ordered the GE WD. Maybe my cabinets could have been made to accommodate the GE WD, but I'm glad I was able to return it and purchase the Dacor, which doesn't have any issues about being integrated.

Bump .... just caught this on the last page and thought it might be useful to those who haven't seen it.