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sarapamela_gw

So Confused About Materials

sarapamela
12 years ago

We are trying to decide what kind of crown molding and cabinets to put in our soon-to-be renovated kitchen. Different contractors offer different brands and types of cabinets, and I am hearing opposite things about the materials from each one. Can someone please give me impartial and accurate answers to the following questions about MDF, particle board, thermofoil, plywood, etc.?

Is a cabinet door made out of MDF really considered to be a solid wood door (as one builder tried to tell me)? How does MDF differ from particle board? Is one better than the other in a rather humid environment, or are they the same? I've heard that MDF and Thermofoil are sealed, so they won't absorb water like wood, and I've also heard the opposite. I've heard that MDF baseboards and crown molding look just as good as wood but are more flexible, so they work better and "line up" better on walls that aren't 100% straight/even....and also that wood is the only way to go. Needless to say, I am very confused.

I don't know if it matters that we want white cabinets. If we can get them, we'd like to have some w/ beadboard doors and others a simple door in the same color. (Even though the kitchen is small, I'm afraid all beadboard would look too busy.)

For the cabinet boxes, I assume plywood is stronger than the particle board. This is a vacation home, and we are on a budget, so I don't know if it is necessary to have the boxes made out of plywood, or is better to put the money into solid wood (maple?) doors and save some $ by using MDF or particle board boxes??? It seems that everyone wants to tell you that the type of cabinets they sell are the best....and that the crown moldings they use (wood vs. "man-made") are "the only way to go"!? I'm even getting conflicting information from reps who sell both solid wood and MDF and thermofoil, so I'd really appreciate hearing from those who can shed some light on all this for me!

Comments (7)

  • herbflavor
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    like anything...it depends....if I were you, I'd go to the library-scan through old issues of Fine Woodworking/This Old House..you will find articles on cabinet carcass/door construction. There are woodworking sites on the web and various cabinet makers blog and discuss this. In general, for where you are at, I'd stay clear of particle board. Good MDF can be perfectly suitable and cost smart....but there are different grades of it-see what technical specs you can obtain. Plywood can be cost prohibitive , but then again, if your kitchen is smaller, a local woodworker may come in cost wise better than you think. It all depends...Figure out your budget and what "special" features you desire....thermofoil/laminate cabs are ok-laundry/pantry/baths/etc.-A perfectly fine kitchen can have thermofoil cabs with some dramatic counters/floor/color-it is not wood,don't expect that look/feel from it. Are you dealing with a lumber yard or big box store? Ikea is good quality for the price as well.

  • suzanne_sl
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The mdf (AKA "furniture board") vs. plywood is an old argument around here. You can search it on this site and get a million or so hits, but how about an easy summary?

    First, definitions:
    Plywood - made from thin sheets of wood veneer layered so that the grain of each sheet is 90 degrees to the ones on either side. There are 8 recognized grades from sorta glued together with all sorts of defects (fine for some purposes) to really nice. Cabinets would use the top 2 grades. Generally an "upgrade," although many dispute that the upgrade involves any perceptible quality vs. an upgrade in cash outlay.

    mdf - made from wood fibers combined with wax and resin and formed under high heat and pressure. Doesn't have knot holes and other imperfections of plywood. Doesn't hold wood screws as well as wood, so other fasteners may be used. Often used for painted cabs since it doesn't have a wood grain showing and paints up well.

    "furniture board" - highest quality mdf, although not all manufacturers use the term. Any decent cabinets made of mdf will use this quality no matter what they call it.

    particle board - is like mdf except that instead of starting with wood fibers, it starts with wood chips and chunks that are waxed and resined together. Not suitable for cabinets. If any cabinets are actually made with this, you'd probably purchase them in a back alley for a "really good deal." I'd have said it's not used at all for cabs, except that I suspect the cabs in the kitchen of my nephew's newly flipped/newly purchased house. Some building people use the term loosely when they really mean mdf.

    wood vs. mdf crowns and baseboards - we used mdf for our crowns because they do look the same and cost about half as much. We used wood for our baseboards and door trim because they get bumped by passing feet and furniture. MDF molding strips are softer and will dent with bumping.

    So what should you do about the kitchen in your vacation house? Find cabinets that fit in your price range that you like the look of. With beadboard add-ons you need to keep an eye on what different lines consider an upgrade and what they would charge you for that. Big variability. Do be sure to check with local cabinet builders who may give you a better price for what you want than any of the pre-builts. Many people here have gone with Ikea cabs, and some of them don't order the Ikea doors, but instead order them from somewhere like Scherr's for a different look. A trip to one of the Big Box stores to look at what they offer may be in order. These stores also offer computer design services where they help you design a layout and then price out all the cabs needed for that design in whatever line(s) you're interested in. This is free, except for your time. Beware: some of the Big Box "designers" are excellent, often not. A few are terrible. Just so you know. One thing to avoid at this point is getting boxed into having to deal with one designer or shop. Before you know if you're comfortable with that person/shop, you need to see what the possibilities are out there.

  • breezygirl
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Suzanne--that is the most susinct, user friendly summary I've seen. Excellent!

    My white cabs are solid wood, but our trim is MDF. We had an entire house that needed trim so to stay somewhat within budget with the rest of the house reno, I reluctantly agreed to MDF. I've only had wood in the past so didn't really know the difference. I, too, was told about how easily it bends, looks great, blah blah blah.

    Now that it's installed and painted, I think it's OK. I'm not over the moon as I still don't think it looks like real wood. Also, it doesn't sand as easily as wood. We had all the trim and wood doors in the house sprayed by pro painters. I didn't like a few areas after trim install and assumed the painters would sand them down to perfect before paint. I was told they only sand very lightly or the MDF gets gummed up. Wish I'd known that before I agreed to it. Overall, it was the best solution for us. If I could have afforded it, I'd have done real wood in a heartbeat.

    I love my wood cabs, although I've read many conflicting reports here also on whether or not its really necessary to do that and about expansion/contraction at the joints. They feel like quality, well-built, lifetime cabs.

  • suzanne_sl
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Breezy - I used to teach middle school science. Believe me, I can get almost anything to be clear. I specialized in freehand drawings and big-arm gestures to make plate tectonics understandable to 14 year olds.

    I'll share one of my favorite comments (middle schoolers have remarkable comments!): This came from a 14 year old boy, very bright, but very ADD and some learning disabilities. We were studying space and how long it takes light to get from here to there. He said, "So if there was somebody way out there looking at us through a telescope right now, he might be seeing cave men?" Details are debatable, but that's a very clear understanding of the concept. Most of the other kids didn't get it. I hope that kid did well in life.

  • sarapamela
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you ALL for your thoughtful responses! I will continue to do some "research" (and I will be interested to hear from more of you), but I definitely have a much better idea of all the terms and the differences! I'm not sure how to begin checking out local cabinet makers, but I'll look into it (I just assumed they'd be way more $).... and I should have time to check out the local HD and Lowe's to see what options they offer. I hear the local HD cabinets (Kraft Maid?) are of good quality. Does anyone know if they are the same Kraft Maid cabinets that are sold at the kitchen design centers? Thanks again. This site is such a fabulous resource!

  • breezygirl
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Suzanne--Ah...your teaching background makes sense. And wow! about that student. Insightful.

    Sara--Kraftmaid is sold at the big box stores and at independent dealers. Make sure you get multiple quotes and compare apples to apples, i.e. the same type of cab construction, install costs, extra doodads, etc. Good luck!

  • dianalo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If you are on a budget, Ikea can't be beat. We have theirs in a slab front in white (Applad) but I think they also make a bead board look.
    If you don't like the doors, many people use their boxes and get their doors elsewhere, such as from Scherrs.
    The hardware is great, we love the ease of cleaning, inside and out and it is the exact look we wanted.
    There are metal sides to the drawers so it is a different look inside. I feel that the surfaces stay cleaner than our previous wood cabs, which seemed to be porous to me. I can wipe it down with a sponge and see that they are clean.
    You should look at the display kitchens and test drive them. Try out the features and see how solid they feel to you. Keep in mind that hundreds of people a day mess with the displays, so when you see they are in great shape, you will know your own kitchen can stand up to your family, esp in a vacation house ;)