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needsometips08

using a softer wood for your cabinets

needsometips08
15 years ago

Has anyone here used a softer wood for your cabinets - something like alder or west coast maple?

If so, how have they held up over time? How do they wear?

Especially with kids, we have 2 of our own, and our house is always full of other people's kids for one reason or another.

Comments (22)

  • rhome410
    15 years ago

    We have Douglas fir (and we have 8 kids plus friends). I am not worried, and neither is my woodworker husband who wouldn't risk using something he thought wouldn't be up to the task...because he can get crazy over wood getting damaged. Cabinet doors, being vertical, don't get that much abuse. We had cherry in our last house, which is harder, but still pretty soft compared to other woods, and other than where the upright vacuum handle fell against the island with quite a force and left a bit of a dent (and I do mean it wasn't much), they looked new after 7 years.

  • rhome410
    15 years ago

    Maybe you already know this, but for hardness the big leaf maple scores 850-950 (I found citations for both), while the alder is more in the range of my fir at 660 or so. The cherry we had rates about 950, I think. To compare, red oak is 1290, and hard maple is is 1450.

  • needsometips08
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Rhome410, no I didn't know that about the hardness. This is very helpful information - thank you. Is there anyplace on the web that lists the hardness scores for all the various types of wood?

    I've met with 3 cabinet companies so far - one custom and then one that deals in Showplace and one that deals in Kraftmaid. The latter two both have said that using alder or western maple would be a big mistake and they would be destroyed with kids in the home. It's hard to know what to believe, and I really seem to be drawn time and again to the look of alder or the western maple.

    On another note, are you from the Pacific Northwest? I ask cause I am!

  • alice462
    15 years ago

    We have poplar that is painted on our perimeter and stained alder for our island and a hutch. We have not actually moved into the kitchen permanently but are using parts of it on a daily basis. My perimeter cabinets have a painted finish w/distressing so some wear and tear over time won't bother us. The alder for the island and hutch is just beautiful -- I am very pleased with the look of the stained alder, so warm. Again, haven't been in long enough for our three boys to work it too hard, but both are holding up to carpenters, electricians, painters and any other workman that is still here on a daily basis.

  • cleo07
    15 years ago

    The cabinet companies are right to warn you to be careful with the softer woods. And the cabinet doors could be the biggest problem as the hinge screws will not stay in the softer woods.

    I had poplar (hardness of about 600 on the scale) Kraftmaid cabinets in my old house and the screws were done after about 3 years when I lived there. And the worst cabinets are the upper ones which weren't used by my kids. The doors hang off the hinges because the screws loosen so quickly in the softer wood. Kraftmaid doesn't even use poplar anymore and has moved to maple for their painted finish because of the complaints (that was what I was told anyway).

    My sister's poplar cabinets have lasted only 8 years before a professional overhaul is necessary. She constantly is putting loctite in the hinges and larger screws. It has reached the point where she is having the cabinets hinges professionally filled and repainted so she can have new hinges drilled in a new location on the frame.

    I don't have any experience with alder but that is only slightly harder than poplar so I wanted to give you my experience with a soft wood like poplar.

  • ellen917
    15 years ago

    We went with alder. It's considerably less expensive than cherry (our first choice), yet has a tight grain and takes stain in a similar way. It does nick and dent a little easier than most woods, which is why we chose "knotty alder" (aka "character alder"). It already has a lot of knots and swirls going on, so what few nicks we have are barely noticeable. We love the look of it too. No regrets.

  • rhome410
    15 years ago

    You can do a search for 'Janka hardness scale' and come up with several sites that have it. They don't all list all woods, so sometimes you have to look at a few to find what you want.

    We have the European style hinges, so there is not the stress on screws that the old fashioned exposed hinges would have had, so maybe that's a consideration.

  • Buehl
    15 years ago

    We considered Alder instead of Cherry for the reasons Ellen917 stated, but after the "fingernail test" decided against it. A fingernail pressed a little more than gently against it made an indentation...and with two children, 2 dogs, and klutzy me, we decided to go w/the Cherry.

    To compensate cost-wise, I changed my glaze from Onyx to Coffee. Coffee was not quite as dark, but I was OK with it. (And besides, for as long as I can remember, I've always wanted Chery cabinets...so it was an easy compromise for me!)

    Onyx was a 20% upcharge while Coffee was a 10%
    Cherry was a 10% upcharge from Alder

    So it pretty much evened out.


    HTH!

  • rhome410
    15 years ago

    Needsometips08, I forgot to answer your other question...Yes, we're in the Pacific NW, too...Western Washington/Puget Sound area.

  • snowyshasta
    15 years ago

    I had a huge amount of internal debate and angst on this very decision - we ended up going with alder. So far I'm happy with it, but it's only been 2 months :-) I really like the look of it, so I'm definitely happy. We haven't nicked anything up thus far, or at least nothing noticeable, so I hope it stays that way. I'm in the PNW, too, just outside Portland, there are a few of us from the kitchen forum here.

  • trendystamper
    15 years ago

    I just went through the same debate ast week.
    I live in the Idaho and the hot trend here is definitely distressed knotty alder. Our custom cabinet builder said about 80% of their clientele is going with alder (both the knotty and the regular) It stains up beautifully.

    I live in a rural area where quite a few medium to high end homes have been built in the last 5 years. After speaking with two homeowners who chose alder for their kitchens, both of them said they would definitely reconsider.

    I even went to look at one's kitchen to see the dings on their lower cabinet where their central vac system is. Looked horrible, and this was on alder that was stained natural.
    Now both of these ladies, had cherry in other places in their homes so had something to compare it to.

    In the end, I chose to go with Maple. It's budget friendly, it's hard, and it's still somewhat in style. The only con I see with Maple is the inability to use dark stains.

  • jraz_wa
    15 years ago

    Rhome - I am planning to do fir windows and trim and am thinking about fir cabinets as well (given my backyard has a few here in the Seattle area, it seems very fitting to use it. I'm basically trying to decide if I'd be on fir overkill with windows and cabinets in fir) I'd love to see pics of yours and know who did them. I've come across a few cabinet makers that do fir, but it does seem limited. Thanks!

  • rhome410
    15 years ago

    Jraz, we have only one window trimmed, but all of our door casing and baseboard, and LOTS of fir cabinetry in the house. Here are some 'fir-heavy' pics from around our house that I hope will help:

  • needsometips08
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Rhome, your cabinets look great, and that's encouraging.

    I am really leaning so strongly toward using the bigleaf maple for so many reasons:

    1. it knocks >$5K off the cabinet price (which may mean the difference b/w doing and not doing the kitchen reno)

    2. it's 850 on the hardness scale - compared to alder at 590 and maple at 1450.

    3. I adore both the look of the wood and how it absorbs stain: looks glazed without having to pay for glaze.

    4. Bigleaf maples are indiginous to our region and in fact our city was named after the bigleaf maples that are rampant here. There is something cool about using an indigenous species in your home.

    5. If I do get a ding, I know I can chaulk it up to memories and love. Our pine bedroom set is well worn and every imperfection has a story behind it from our beloved cat's scratches (who is no longer with us) to the burn mark from the last time the power went out to the dent caused while moving it into our very first home. I just love those little reminders of our lives.
    :-).

    We are also in the Seattle area.

  • rhome410
    15 years ago

    I was talking to my woodworker/cabinetmaker dh about this thread. He says that he thinks the Waterlox finish I put on our cabinets and trim really helps make them tougher...and it's so easy to touch up and refresh. No taking it down to bare wood over a whole area, just optional sanding and wipe it on.

  • oruboris
    15 years ago

    Wish I could say it doesn't matter, but it does.

    I have 3 different woods in my kitchen: white oak by the stove, hickory in the desk area, and pine in the cleaning zone.

    The pine and oak are from Ikea, the hickory from kraftmaid.

    Made this choice because my kitchen is pretty large, and I wanted to give each zone it's own treatment.

    We've only been in since November, but I can see that the pine won't be wearing as well as the oak: it's fine now, but after a couple years, it's going to have a lot of 'patina'. That's OK: I planned to change those door and drawer fronts out with quartersawn oak when time and budget allow.

    The hickory is a whole different story. Had that in my old house, and it's much harder than oak-- it can be scratched if you really, really, REALLY try, and of course the finish can be damaged, but it's practically bullet proof. Can't drive a finish nail without pre-drilling. The kind of accident that will gouge the pine and scratch the oak will bounce right off the hickory.

  • jraz_wa
    15 years ago

    Rhome - Thanks for those pictures! Is your fir stained or natural? I so often see it stained dark, but I really like the lighter look. Has it darkened much over time?

    How are you liking the Waterlox? We used Osmo Hardwax Oil on the floors in our last place and on some furniture. Like the Waterlox, you can spot repair - I really like that about it.

    Love your cooktop hood design - very nicely done, and it looks very functional, too.

    Were the cabinets done locally?

    Thanks!

  • rhome410
    15 years ago

    Love, love, love the Waterlox finish. That's all that's on the fir, so no stain. The photo above shows the bathroom linen closet that was installed recently, so you may be able to tell it isn't as reddish and richly colored as the stuff that's been in longer. I'll include a photo of our bedroom built-in...You can see in this one the difference between the lower cabinets that were installed for several months and the upper doors that were only in about a week or two when this was taken.

    Thanks for the compliments on the cabinets. They do work well for me. We did our own cabinets (our house was a family DIY project)...I designed and DH built them. We bought the cabinet doors and most of the drawer fronts and drawer boxes from Ruckmans', a shop specializing in such things in Puyallup.

  • mahatmacat1
    15 years ago

    rhome, could you share where you got your stair rails? I *love* them and am in the market for something just like them.

    And we got some salvage CVG fir doors and shelves made for our kitchen by a local finish carpenter -- I promptly put a deep gouge in one of the big doors while carrying something past it. :( I'm going to have to sand both doors down soon to get rid of the gouge so they can age along with the other fir shelves.

  • rhome410
    15 years ago

    Hi, Flyleft,
    We got the metal pieces from King Architectural Metals. They have a website...KingMetals.com

  • mahatmacat1
    15 years ago

    Thanks, rhome! Off to peruse...

  • rhome410
    15 years ago

    Fly, I couldn't find ours right off the bat when i just looked on the website, and I am running out the door. If you have any trouble, let me know and I'll look over the weekend.