One follow up: Cabinets are from left (refrigerator),
12" bank of 4 drawers
Dishwaser with panel
Sink
Corner cabinet with lazy susan
9" pull out
Range
18" cabinet with 2 pull out shelves
Pantry

On the peninsula:
48" double cabinet with two pull out shelves.
30" cabinet with two drawers.

And some additional questions:
Somebody recommended tile kicks for the cabinets. The idea is that it is easier to mop. Is this a good idea?

Does the tres moderne look of a chimney hood offset the loss of the approximately 18" of shelf space from the half of a cabinet that is not taken up by a vent pipe?

Other notes: the tile in the existing counters is actually tiled right over the original formica. You can kind of see this in the overhang on the side next to the fridge. The range was actually replaced in 1992,believe it or not.

Personally, I'd cut the 12" drawer cabinet and slide the dw and sink closer to the ref - so the butt of a person at the sink was further from the oven and from the butt of a person cooking at the range. If you want to, add back the 12" cabinet.

Be aware that a 12" drawer cabinet can be pretty useless- the inside of the drawer will vary from about 10 inches DOWN to 6 inches depending on how your cabinets are made. They will not fits standard silverware trays, etc.

Then do super susan, range, and a 27" drawer cabinet. Cabinets above refrigerators are perfect for trays and bakeware.

Alternate for above corner is to do a 21-24" drawer cabinet and then a 21" blind corner, the range and then the 18" drawer cabinet. Or turn the corner with a blank and do 18" drawers, the range and a 21" cabinet.

The cabinet sizes shrink a bit for fillers that are required in the corners when you aren't using a corner cabinet. These fillers allow the cabinet across the corner to open completely and door knobs not scrap against an appliance - like the oven door handle.

On the peninsula, consider sliding it further into the room so it was 48" from the sink run (it's too hard to see spacing with google sketchup). Change its cabinets to a pair of 30" drawer cabinets and consider adding an 18" trash/recycle.

Remember that having actual walls on both ends of an "L" like your kitchen means you must have at least one filler on each wall. It can be 1.5" filler, but you need it. This is because walls are not straight and not level- so when you go to hang cabinets, the distance between the walls will vary. Your walls could have bulges or dips that would make your new cabinets unable to fit.

Pullouts are drawers that take more work to use.

Do you think the trash pull-out in the peninsula would be too far away? I think the hidden trash pullouts look much better. What do they do if the ceiling is uneven and the cabinets go up to the top? I guess they put trim of some sort. It also doesn't seem to have much counter space.

What size is the refrigerator? You may already be losing some length along that wall if you are going to a more current refrigerator size (wider) --you can't increase depth because it is in the doorway (unless moving the doorway is a possibility),

I agree with trying to flip the sink and DW, but then you will also have to watch for the DW vs oven doors. (I had a kitchen where you had to open the fridge to open the DW--not for long). You shouldnt have a conflict but just be aware of the doors being close to opening in the same space. If you made that tall narrower, or made that conventional countertop and wall cabinet, you could slide the range over a little bit.

(This is off-topic, but take notice of the recessed cooktop. They used to take into account that a large pot increases work height. Current ranges, especially gas, are *higher than countertop height including the grates. I've stood at ranges where I thought the large pots were under my chin.)

We are going with standard appliances. New fridge will be a standard 36 inch counter depth unit. It is currently 33 inch. I'm determined that all appliances will be absolutely standard sized. I think there is some room for the fridge because the overhang of the counter on the side will go away. Because the tiles went right over the formica in the existing kitchen, there is about a 1.5 inch overhang on the side. I want to make sure that this kitchen outlasts the appliances. I'm not too enthusiastic about swapping sink and dishwasher. The door would interfere with me standing at the stove- the kitchen is that small. Part of the problem is that the way the appliances need to be laid out leaves only small choppy areas for cabinets. So we end up with narrow banks of drawers and nine inch pullouts. With respect to the counter height issue for cooktop, I don't think we have a choice. We aren't going to build in a cooktop into the counter, so that means freestanding of some sort, which are standard height.

Oh, I wasn't suggesting you do anything about the cooktop height, that was just an observation about an older style range.

I am glad you are considering the depth of the refrigerator. They have gotten deeper without people realizing it, and a current "conventional" depth fridge would be out in that doorway.

If you feel shorted for space I would put a conventional range hood with cabinet above it. Its good for things you don't have to use everyday but still want to have access to.

What do you use those cabinets with the range hoods in them for? Not much room..

I double checked the width of the kitchen. It is about 5'0" in the width between the cabinets along the wall and the counter. I love the idea of a super susan. I had been thinking about the magic corner knockoff from Lee Hardware that runs $219 for the corner cabinet, or a lazy susan. When you have such a small kitchen as ours, every single inch counts.

Well, on second thought, you can put some open or closed storage on the peninsula wall. Take the blank wall and put a floor to ceiling stack of narrow depth cabinets that continued along the wall "over" the peninsula. Where the window into the ?hall? is, put a narrow cabinet facing into the hall and fill with wine or games or books.

The duct for the vent hood is either a 10x3 rectangle, or a 5-6" round pipe sitting in a cabinet that is 12"-15" deep and 30"-36" wide. Lets make it 18" tall. Using the smallest dimensions for the cabinet (30 x 12 x 18 =6480 cubic inches or 3.75 cubic feet) minus the duct (540 cubic inches or .74 square feet) =

3 cubic feet of storage space.

That is not insignificant in a small kitchen.

My parents' had the choppers, the graters, the cookie presses, the thermoses..all things that were a bit bulky, and kept in the box so it could be tipped out without getting a step stool.

My client keeps a fire extinguisher and potholders on the lowest shelf and oversized containers on the upper--her cabinet is taller.

Mine contains a stack of tupperware containers and a large stock pot, among other things.

Not necessarily things one accesses every day, but things that would take up too much room in a more useful cabinet.

Even if it was one cubic foot, its better than nothing, and a cabinet with under cabinet hood is usually cheaper than a chimney style range hood.

I agree about leaving the DW on the left for the very reason Jmm76 stated...if it's on the right it will be in the way of someone working at the range. I would, however, move that 12" cabinet that's b/w the DW & refrigerator to the right side of the sink to increase the work space b/w the sink and range.

I would also consider removing some of the walls if you can and, instead, have the tall cabinets/appliances form the walls. This will gain you 4+ inches for every interior wall you remove.

I would put in a super/lazy susan in the corner as they are generally much more useful than blind corner units like you show in the last pic. (For example, if something falls off the blind corner unit, it's not closing again until someone crawls back into that corner and retrieves it. Susans, OTOH, now usually have walls that are contoured to fit susan shelves so nothing can fall off them.)

I would also consider moving the range over so there's 18" b/w the pantry and the range and the rest of the space be on the left...the Prep Zone...so you have more workspace. If you can take that wall down and gain that 4", you might be able to use a 21" cabinet next to the pantry.

I would also move the MW to the other side of the range. MWs that have side-opening doors, all have hinges on the left side. If you mount your MW where it appears to be shown b/w the range & pantry, you will have very little maneuvering room for dishes.

FWIW, I stored cookbooks in the cabinet over the hood in my old kitchen. However, if you aren't tall, you will not be able to store anything you use regularly up there. Depending on how you vent (straight back or straight up), you may lose space inside the cabinet for duct work. If you vent straight back, you probably would not lose space. I'll admit, though, that I'm biased toward either a hood like you show or one that's built like a mantel rather than a short hood under a regular cabinet.

Here's an idea. I'm guessing on the length of the left wall based on the assumption that you have approx a 42" aisle b/w the pantry & peninsula/attached island. There aren't enough measurements given (sink, range, and pantry have no sizes in the description). I think you had a 33" sink base in your layout, so I reduced it by 3" to allow the 12" cabinet to be a little wider. 15" is more useful than 12"...plus it adds 3" to the workspace b/w the sink & corner.

To make room for a 24" pantry, I "removed" the wall to the right of it...i.e., there is no longer a wall b/w the DR & pantry. If you put a decorative door panel on the side, it will look very nice. (You can see the wall stub there as a "shadow". It's just there to show you what you could do w/the wall removed and where the cabinetry would end...at the DR side of the wall.)

I did not remove the wall next to the refrigerator, but I did reduce it so it's no more than 24" deep. If you decide to remove that wall, you could fit an 18" cabinet b/w the sink & corner susan...even more useful than a 15" cabinet!

On the non-design front since we're not too far from you (East Bay) and on a similar budget, I'd throw out a few thoughts....

- Talk with local custom cabinet shops. We've got a comparable number of cabinets in our plan (more, I think) and $12K was the highest bid we've gotten (and we've only looked at wood boxes with Blum full extension hardware for the drawers). Some were as low as $8K. IKEA was $3500 for the same layout with oak Shaker style doors. For a small kitchen, you can sometimes get much better value with custom shops. Also check out the off-the-beaten-path smaller cabinetmakers with local dealers (lots in the PNW).

- Spend an afternoon at IKEA, if for nothing else than to play with some of their storage solutions and get some ideas. You might also be surprised by their cabinetry; if price is really the driving factor, their value for dollar can't be beat (and I would absolutely do IKEA over another particle board line without the full extension drawers and such, since their cabs use Blum hardware and Tandembox drawers standard). Remember that you can do custom doors so that you get the functionality without the IKEA look, too, if that's the issue.

- Consider whether you're comfortable managing contractors; you can save a lot by doing this (but it also involves a lot of time and energy, so there's a good argument that it's not always worth it). We've found this saves 20-30 percent, though, which can be enough to make a difference.

- Do some research on various materials you're interested in so that you're armed with pricing info when talking to contractors. I was amazed by what some people would tell me re: prices on things like counters and flooring, and it was great to have some bids on those items in hand so that I understood what kind of a markup was in play (e.g., flooring was quoted by one place at double the *retail* cost of the same tiles from a flooring shop nearby---and presumably the lower price already had some profit built in too!)

-Sears Appliance Outlet is a good place to look for discounted appliances, and now you can search online to see what they have (though I've heard it's still better to go in person).

Hope that helps some!

With respect to the low cost estimate, $ 27,975.00 was the original estimate from our first bidder, the lower end kitchen design shop. When we sent in a list of questions, we received the following (appended to bottom) . Note that this does include 6 more rollouts, but moves the peninsula back to MDF rather than plywood upgrade and does include probably $2k in permit fees. I am a bit stunned because this is about an $8000 increase in the price of the bid. (For non-CA residents, Title 24 is the requirement to increase energy efficiency in new construction. This means ripping out the ceiling and removing any incandescent bulbs and replacing them with new flourescent fixtures that cannot accept standard bulbs. Welcome to California!) Note that the new estimate only includes Merillat "Classic" cabinets with veneer inserts in the doors. I have now received TWO preliminary bids including custom cabinetry at less than this price. I have to admit, I am actually stunned because I never thought I would be able to afford custom cabinets.
For what it's worth, some other comments to respond to the posters (Thank you!)

The remaining walls can't come out. The one next to the Fridge can't come out. The reason is that it actually is not well drawn by the kitchen designer and is actually in the hall. It would involve doing a lot of work in the slab to remove. Also, we can't take out the remaining wall next to the peninsula. It contains a lot of HVAC and it would be too expensive to move. If we take out the wall stub next to the dining room, it increases the span of the ceiling beam. Since the span is bigger, it would require an engineering permit and inspection as well, which is quite expensive and would require an engineer's certification of the removal of the load bearing wall. That would increase the cost for the remodel by several thousand dollars.

Sears Outlet: We have been looking at the Sears Outlet. Our learnings are as follows: 1. It is a great place to get refrigerators. Fridges are 50% off retail. Many have handle issues- broken handles, etc. You can purchase new handles for any fridge Sears sells from Sears for under $200. 2. Sears outlet does have stuff online. However, it bears no relation to what is actually in the stores. Since it tends to be scratch and dent, you have to actually go to the stores to look at the stuff. Some appliance have dents in the inside of the Oven. That's OK. Some have the oven door falling off. That's not OK. The website will give a bit of information, but not enough to really make a decision. For counters- I have been quoted installed granite prices from 5.7k to 8.7k for this kitchen. I still think it is high and that I should get a better price. Our other option is Ikea. For $1400, we can get a 23cft Ikea counter depth fridge. For another $800, we can get an OK slide in range in stainless steel. Sears Outlet doesn't have many slide in ranges, although we did see a top of the line GE induction slide in for more than we want to pay, even discounted.

One other question: I wanted to put the microwave in the peninsula. I have been warned against this as it is supposedly not child safe. Is this really not child safe? A MW doesn't get hot like an oven.

Append Quote from bid:
I have gone over your project with XXXXX, our company owner and the Sunnyvale Building Department. We have determined that rather than speculate on what may or may not be required by the City we will price your project based upon what we know is requiring and what is normally involved in a project such as yours.
I was aware that these upgrades would be required because when you do other improvements that require a permit then you are required to bring everything up to code. I did not include this in your original quote as we had not cover in depth the electrical and lighting plans other than moving an outlet and phone jack as well as installing the boxes for 3 pendant lights.

The City requirements are to bring all of the electrical up to current code, requiring new circuitry, additional outlets and lighting is to be brought up to title 24 energy codes.

This involves much more work including running power from the subpanel to the kitchen, adding new outlets and switches, determining the amount of load on existing circuits, drywall penetrations, patching, texturing and painting.

Under cabinet lighting may be required if you keep the existing overhead incandescent lighting. This would then require a molding along the underside of the cabinet to conceal the light fixtures. Other smaller items required are additional prep, demolition and related items.

We have revised the total proposal to reflect all of the City requirements, upgrades, deletions, modifications and to show the complete and total package per the design and specifications.

Total of all work including plans, engineering and permit fees.____________ $ 37,850.00 [jmm76 note: This is 10k more than original bid!]

the first thing i'd do is make a visit to the city permit office with your LO/ plans and ask directly what permits are required for the work and the cost of the permits. I wouldn't trust someone else in that - on what is needed or the price of the permits. you might call ahead and schedule some time with a planner.

I think the LO posted here/with Buehl's is a good one. I'd put in every bit of cabinetry I could - including over the range. let your 'pop' be the granite. It doesn't look like you'll need much - check a yard for pieces.

check a few local custom shops.

put in drawers instead of doors and slide outs - except under sink and pantry above counter height.

what will the pullout next to the stove be used for? if spices/oils etc I'd use drawers. to me 'opening' a pullout is like pulling open 3 drawers to get something in the top drawer. I wouldn't want to do that.

the mw on a shelf under the upper cab in the corner area looks like a good place for it.

Okay, I would *definitely* keep shopping contractors in that case! We rewired our entire house (which, granted, is tiny) two years ago for not much more than the markup there... :)

You might check out the Berkeley Parents Network website for some contractor recommendations---it's obviously East Bay focused, but many of the contractors are down in the Fremont/Milpitas/Hayward area and would happily come to Sunnyvale, I imagine. We've found all of the people we've used over the years there, and generally been quite happy. You might also look for kitchen design shops further east or south of the Peninsula, since you may be dealing with a little bit of Peninsula markup. There's a cabinet store in San Leandro (I think?) that I've heard good things about if you want to stick with stock cabinets---but honestly, I think this is the perfect kitchen to go custom with, since for about the same price, maybe less, you can pick up every extra inch and make it work exactly the way you need it to.

We're in the midst of figuring out our Title 24 plan. For what it's worth, you can buy standard light fixtures equipped with GU24 sockets that meet the T24 requirements from most good lighting places (ours will be from Rejuvenation and Schoolhouse lighting, as we have an older home, but lots of other places offer the same thing) and they should not be any more costly to install than a standard light. (Our guy charged around $100 per point, whether it was a receptacle or light fixture, plus the cost of any fixtures we asked him to buy---and he was also pulling out old knob-and-tube wiring.) UC Davis makes a good guide to planning Title 24 lighting for kitchens if you Google that---they're supposed to be releasing an updated one any day now with the new 2010 guidelines. That helped me get a handle on the requirements to make sure I fully understood them before talking with contractors.