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Elux, Bosch or Wolf Single Oven?

Posted by sarends (My Page) on
Sun, Jan 6, 13 at 23:54

We are doing a partial kitchen remodel that will be Phase I of at least a Phase II and maybe a Phase III. Phase I is:

1) remove wall between kitchen and gamily room
2) remove island (with old chambers electric oven)
3) add new oven in lover cabinet next to fridge

Last year we replaced a failed microwave with a stack:
Miele warming oven (bottom)
Miele speed oven (middle) btw - we love this to pieces!
Miele microwave (top)

Candidates for the single oven are:

Electrolux Wave-Touch Series EW30EW55GS
Bosch 800 Series 30" HBL8450UC
Wolf 30" E Series

Some questions and comments I have:

1) dodge59 (please chime in) has done quite a bit of research, and is personally a fan of the Elux ovens, but I believe he owns an Icon? Are the non Icon models just as good?

2) I have heard great things about the Wolf and the ELectrolux ovens - I am a little concerned that our existing Miele cooking equipment is going to outclass (looks only) the Electrolux and also the Elux has more of a different look than the Bosch 800 or the Wolf "E" Series. The Bosch 800 has the same color lights as the Miele and I simply think the Wolf will loo "classy" almost no matter what the other appliances are. The Elux Icon would seem to "look" more like the Miele (IMO) but by the time I invest that much more in the Elux Icon I kinda think the wolf "E" makes more sense

3) The Bosch 800 is an outlier in my decision process because there does not seem to be as much info on it (reviews etc) but it has amber lights like our Miele stuff and I think Bosch ovens have (overall) decent reviews plus I think it might look a little more professional than the ELux Wave Touch.

I appreciate everyone's thoughts!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Elux, Bosch or Wolf Single Oven?

Yes, Dodge owns an Icon. His is several years old, so before the current 'regular' Elux were available everywhere, I believe...and he can correct me if I'm wrong. ;-) The current Elux models, at least as of a couple years ago, were essentially the same as the Icons, except for outside appearance, price, and for whatever reason, the Icon measured barely smaller inside. They may have addressed that by now.

I haven't owned any of the brands you mention except for a Wolf E-series double oven. I have owned Fisher and Paykel and GE Monogram, and the Wolf outshines the baking performance of all of them with its dual convection technology. However, I've had trouble with the porcelain at the front corners of the oven cavities.. in 3 ovens. Wolf is adamant that this is unusual, and indeed, no one else I know has had this kind of track record. I do high heat pizza baking and with a large family, bake almost every day. They say I am unusual in my, apparently, comparatively heavy use of the oven, so I now sadly say goodbye to my Wolf oven, and move on to something else. I had a similar issue with Fisher and Paykel, so maybe they're right... Maybe I just wear out ovens!

Is there a reason you're not getting a Miele single oven? Sorry if you said so and I missed it in your post.


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RE: Elux, Bosch or Wolf Single Oven?

Rhome410,

Good observation re. omission of the Miele oven - particularly with us just purchasing three wonderful Miele products! Well, I have been afraid of the Miele oven largely because of the negative (might I even say they approach "horror") stories here on Garden Web re. 1) very lengthy preheat times 2) Inaccurate oven temperatures. 3) Difficult time getting these issues fixed

Perhaps these items have been cleared up but I haven't seen anything written that explains (clearly) if and when these problems were fixed. And, it seems the Electrolux ovens are liked at least as much (probably better) than Miele here on GW. Finally, if I were motivated to pay more for a "better" oven than the Electrolux it seems that the Wolf was a more clear winner, again based upon popularity and comments re. favorability here on GW.

Might I ask you what you are thinking about doing if (actually it sounds like you have made your mind up to do something) you change to a different oven?


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RE: Elux, Bosch or Wolf Single Oven?

I was wondering why Miele wasn't on your list, too, since you love the one you have.

I can't help. All of them get great reviews, overall, and I was once trying to decide between Electrolux and Bosch. I ended up getting a discontinued Gaggenau on ebay for around the price of a Kenmore. We'll see how things go when it's delivered and installed.

Rhome, I can't believe yet another brand hasn't held up for you! You'll have to try Dodge's Electrolux ;)


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RE: Elux, Bosch or Wolf Single Oven?

I think I might follow your lead and try Gagg, Alex. I planned a "forever kitchen" with appliances I thought would be workhorses for decades. Maybe Gagg can do it.


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RE: Elux, Bosch or Wolf Single Oven?

Bummer to hear about your wolf.

I have the wolf e series. It is nice and my brunch came out perfectly.
I ogled the elux for a long time and they are the "sexiest" ovens on the market with the blue porcelain and 3 gliding racks.

How close will the oven be to your other ovens. Thinking of how they will look together- I have 4 different appliance brands and they look fine but only the Advantium and wolf ovens needed to coordinate.


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RE: Elux, Bosch or Wolf Single Oven?

rhome pretty well answered your question about my Elux oven.

Yes it is the Icon Model, There were 2 Icon Models at the time I bought mine, "Designer Series and the Pro Series".
Since the theme of my kitchen design was "Curves", we went with the designer series due to the curved handles. I even bought the fridge handles (curved) and added them to my Jenn-air built in and paneled 48" SXS Fridge.

We also have the Icon designer speed oven as well as the wine fridge.
Even our "semi integrated" Miele Optima DW has a curved handle.

The reason we went with the Elux, was at the time, (2006) it was the ONLY oven that had the fully gliding out ball bearing racks, and as the oven is mounted under cabinet we figgered this would be a great thing to have, especially at "Turkey time", or large hams, roasts etc (anything heavy) and indeed the racks really do help, especially on how far they glide out.

Another reason we bought the Elux was the large window along with the large display and controls, really comes in handy in a below counter installation. It was also one of the few ovens with the cobalt blue interior back in 2006 and also well lit by halogen lamps on each side of the oven.

Another thing I like about the Elux oven is the bottom of the oven, (that which covers the heating elements) just lifts out if you want to clean it, and should it "chip", (It hasn't in almost 7 years), one could just buy a replacement for it.

We've seen many posts regarding the "Alledged smaller size" of the Elux Icon oven, compared to the Non Icon Elux oven.
Seems like I recall measuring it and comparing it to someone's Non Icon, and the only difference we could find is that the Icon racks are slightly smaller from front to back, but as many have recommended, take your favorite cooking pan, cookie sheet or whatever to an appliance store that has the oven you want, and see how it fits.

As I don't use my oven in the manner that rhome does, No pizza baking (cept for those take and bake things, Papa Johns, Murphys whatever, and I don't recall wife making bread, I just did not think I should be the one to head Rhome in that direction, alto I would certainly like to hear inputs from CJ who is an "Avid Baker".

Anyway, we love the both the oven and speed oven and both have been trouble free, except for a screw that came loose on the handle of the speed oven.

Other post here in GW, indicate, that both the Icon and Non Icon models are very similar in performance and reliability, Myself I've only looked at the Icons.

I did do some more research on the Bosch and Gaggenau and Miele ovens, and as this post is "Long enough" already, I will do a separate post on those.

Good luck on your hunt!!

Gary


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RE: Elux, Bosch or Wolf Single Oven?

Sarends, I recommend playing with the racks when you take your pans with you to look. One of the reasons I nixed Electrolux was because of the racks, which I know is weird. I tried to take one out and set it at a different height and spent more time than I liked trying to accomplish that...so embarrassing. I also didn't like that the pull-outs wouldn't stay pulled out. They kept sliding back into the oven.

This was about a year ago and it's likely my experience doesn't represent the current models.

Bosch has a slightly larger cavity than Elect., which I thought I wanted. My existing '93 oven doesn't fit an 11x17 jelly roll pan! In reality, I just wanted to be able to use any of my oven pans and have reliable performance during multi-rack cooking.


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RE: Elux, Bosch or Wolf Single Oven?

I've had the E'lux Wave Touch oven for three weeks now. I'm quite happy with it. I did have to read the instructions to learn how to move the rack. The "perfect turkey" mode made a beautifully browned bird although the probe temperature was pre-set to 180 degrees which would have been far from perfect if I had not changed it. The "wave touch" thing has a definite cool factor. I also have the speed oven from the Icon series. They both pre-heat very rapidly.


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RE: Elux, Bosch or Wolf Single Oven?

Thanks everyone! Excellent input - very helpful. Here is how our options are coming along at the moment:

1) Electrolux 30" Wave Touch via AJ Madison delivered for $1,750.00 - seems like a great buy

2) Wolf "L" Series Floor Model for $2,995.00 in a discontinued color - "carbon stainless" - anyone have this? The dealer emailed me a picture and it looks like a duller grayish stainless steel - hmmmm, tempting but the color might shoot this one in the head

3) Miele floor model 30" "Chef" oven that has been on the floor "a couple of years" per dealer - $2,500.00 - this is almost a definite NO as it is quite likely this oven was from the era of the slow preheat/under temperature Miele's. Also, DW does not like the look of the Miele Chef series' knobs so this one is a no.

4) Electrolux Icon - $2,599.00 - AJ Madison. On AJ Madison 2/3 reviewers had trouble with LEDs going out on the display and then 1 of the 2 had trouble getting ELux to fix it. 1 out of 3 reviewers loved the oven. This is a very small sample and I would place more weight on everything else I've heard re. Electrolux ovens.

Safest and seemingly most prudent choice is leaning towards the Electrolux Wave Touch for $1,750.00. However most everyone's (Rhome excepted) really likes the Wolf "L" so the floor model for $2,999 is tempting if the color is OK to my DW.

I think the Elux Wave Touch has a curved handle whereas the Wolf and the Icon have straight handles (which we prefer - as in the Miele straight handles).

Further thoughts? Especially - anyone have the Wolf "Carbon Stainless"finish?


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RE: Elux, Bosch or Wolf Single Oven?

I have double Wolf Ls, which were floor models when I purchased them. In the 14 months I've been using them I've been very happy. I use them almost everyday for roasting veg, roasting meat, casserole-like dishes, biscuits, rolls, cookies, and broiling. Unlike Rhome, I do find the baking sometimes a bit uneven front to back. I'm embarassed to say that I still can't figure out which cooking mode is best with some of my dishes, but that's my fault and may be the cause of the occassional uneven baking. Maybe?

I did have an issue the week of Thanksgiving when I tried to run the self-clean on the upper oven. The door latch tried to engage and became stuck so I couldn't open or use the oven. Thanks to advice from Gary (Dodge) I got it open in time to use for the holiday, and a Wolf repair service came the next week to fix the door. I don't attribute this problem to Wolf ovens in general. I think the door came out of alignment because of the floor model nature of my particular oven. Now that the door is aligned, everything works well.

I agonized over my oven decision for months with lots of research here and had planned on buying the Elux non-Icon ovens until I found the floor model deal on my Wolfs. It seemed worth spending the extra money to get a product with a long-standing solid reputation and excellent CR record.


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RE: Elux, Bosch or Wolf Single Oven?

We have Wolf cooking appliances and Bosch cleaning appliances (DW, W/D). Wolf replaced the control panel on my L Series double ovens and since no problems. The Bosch appliances are another story. The front-load washer does not clean properly and the dryer has never sensed dryness since installed. We have tried everything to get them to work. Bosch no longer makes washers or dryers. Great. We have had three Bosch dishwashers. The first two worked like a dream - always clean. We have the three rack panel-ready model and the dishes are not clean - especially the top rack that we use primarily for flatware.

Best of luck in your decision making process.


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RE: Elux, Bosch or Wolf Single Oven?

I am looking at double ovens, but considered the same ones you have considered. I am getting an Electrolux. The perfect turkey and wave touch put me over the edge. Also, three easy glide racks... Bosch only has one. Wolf was much pricier, so I eliminated it. I love the blue interior of the wolf but the electrolux has the blue interior, too! I feel like the elux offers many bonuses over the Bosch for a small increase in price compared to the large price tag of the wolf. Good luck with your decision.


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RE: Elux, Bosch or Wolf Single Oven?

We have a 30" Elux Wave Touch single wall oven and it's two months old. It's a nice oven and I'm still learning my way around it. I really like the inside lighting and the large window. ;-)

It came with two easy-glide racks and one normal(traditional) rack.

I've used the probe a couple times and that is a really nice feature. 'Convection Roast' really cooks fast and does a good job.

The bread "Proof" option is wonderful for warming dinner plates right before serving.

So far baked goods don't fare well with the "Convection Bake" feature. I think the convection fan causes uneven browning because the "Regular Bake" works perfectly for cookies. I haven't had it long enough to check the browning with quick breads or pie and I may just use Regular Bake and avoid disaster.

I hope this helps.


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RE:Bosch, Miele, and Gaggenau Ovens

OK I spent about 6 hours or so researching the "Latest" info
(reviews, problems etc) on these ovens, Let's start out with Bosch.

Bosch. Many reviews out there, AJMadison, Chowhound,Retrievo
etc etc. In this case I looked at Reviews by
Consumer Reports readers that bothered to fill in the
surveys that CR sends out.
There were 13 reviews, of the 13, 4 complained about
uneven heating in the ovens.I mention this because of
rhomes experience with her GE ovens, but this is
only info for one model Bosch oven so be SURE to
look for reviews on the model you are interested in!
Here's the link

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/appliances/kitchen-appliances/cooktops-wall-ovens/wall-oven-ratings/models/user-reviews/bosch-hbl5450uc-99019387.htm#readReview

Miele Ovens
To be honest, one really has to hunt to find any
"Newer information" on the "alledged temp problem"
It used to be "easy to find", Retrievo, Chow Hound,
FIxit, Just Answer, etc etc. Here is the "Latest"

"On the Miele: Broiler seems underpowered at 2000 Watts, but they claim it's "infrared" (doesn't look infrared so I don't know), but it's also a 12-pass broiler vs. Wolf's 3800W 8-pass). Read complaints of oven not reaching set temp, but talked to Miele, they acknowledge and say problem is fixed. Oven light is either on or off while you cook - no button. Timer maxes at 99 min 59 seconds."
Here is the link for that:
http://cookaholics.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2547

If that is the case, don't you think it would be nice of Miele to at least get hold of the owners who have complained about temp problems and notify them of the fix,
Even if Miele is not willing to pay for the fix? I know Baver and Larsi, just gave up, and there is NO BIGGER FAN of Miele than Larsi, (at least that I know of), anyway read the link and decide for yourselves, (I'm taking a chance just posting this as I will probably have to make a "Fast Getaway from two of our favourite women, here in Garden Web, (both with great Miele ovens)!

OK Last, but not least,

Gaggenau Ovens.
Hard to find reviews for the ovens, of the ones I found
most are positive, but--- I did find one where the user
has complained about chipping porcelain and a lack of
response from Gaggenau, I put this here for rhone.
(see the link below).

http://hellopeter.com/gaggenau/complaints/bad-quality-and-pathetic-non-existent-service-873959

Now , to be honest, I really had to hunt for that one
and it is only one oven but as I mentioned their is a
dearth of info regarding Gaggenau ovens in general.

I'm not a big fan of the Gaggenau due mainly to price
and their 40% price increase in just one year,
(about 3 years ago now, as I recall). Another thing
that bothers me, is when you look up a part for a Bosch
or Thermador oven, (Example Bake Element), that same
part is used in the Gaggenau oven, so one wonders??
What am I paying all the extra Money for, Name, fit &
finish, some "Untouchable/intangible Asset"??
Now don't take my word for this, Here is a link that
shows the parts:

http://www.reliableparts.com/product/Element-Bosch-Bake-1477152/Bosch-Oven-Range-Parts-461422

Now I will be the first to congradulate rhome, should the
Gaggenau oven be all she needs it to be, nobody deserves
it more than her, and I only offer the above in the
interest of "Full Disclosure" as well as her best
interest. I hope she can find a "Deal" on one.

That's All Folks!!!

Gary


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RE: Elux, Bosch or Wolf Single Oven?

Wow, Gary you are awesome - great value having this information available to better make decisions for myself and others - thanks again!

Recent update on our thinking:

The Wolf "L" Carbon Stainless that is available as a floor model does in fact have a small ding/dent in the bottom center of the door - aaargghh. But, price has been reduced to $2,000 to allow for this. I wonder what the likelihood is that this dent could be repaired (ala paintless dent repair)? we may drive to Denver to see how bad the dent bothers us (probably allot).

So, I am now thinking a bit more about the Elux Icon 30" - it is quite a premium over the standard Wave Touch, but we really are not crazy about the look of the Elux curved handles, for our kitchen.

More to come . . . .


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RE: Elux, Bosch or Wolf Single Oven?

Thanks, Gary, for all the effort! All my oven buys have been good deals on floor models, and while I plan to keep that budget-hunting record intact, I hope the new oven stays way longer than a year! Believe me, I'll let you know what I come up with and how it works. I'm really hoping for a happy end to my oven saga... emphasis on end!


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RE: Elux, Bosch or Wolf Single Oven?

This is some great information you have all put together, and perfect timing because I am making the same decision.

I'm about to buy two 800 Plus series Bosch dishwashers and the 800 series induction stovetop. There are some great rebates at the momen that are stackable, so I'm buying them now even though they won't be installed until this summer.

If I buy a fourth Bosch Appliance then I get an additional 10% cash back on the whole order, which effectively means that the 800 series double 30' Bosch ovens will cost me $1990.

I hadn't yet done any research on ovens, so I've been trying to quickly gather information on this one and this helps greatly as I had been considering the Electrolux Icon. I think with the deal on Bosch I'm going to go ahead on push the trigger!


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RE: Elux, Bosch or Wolf Single Oven?

Laura12--be sure to research Bosch ovens over in the Appliances forum before you buy. It seems like they aren't as good as they used to be, although I can't remember why off the top of my head. I think they cheapened down the design so that they don't bake as evenly and reliably as in the past. Don't quote me though. Look at Appliances. I briefly considered them until reading much better info about Elux when I was researching.


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RE: Elux, Bosch or Wolf Single Oven?

Hmmm... I haven't ordered them yet, but I was planning on going ahead in the next couple days or so.

I've searched all the reviews I can find on the 800 models and I haven't seen any complaints.

Buying appliances is such a pain, anything else I can find 100s of reviews for online!


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RE: Elux, Bosch or Wolf Single Oven?

We ended up going (I know it was not what I set out to do) with a floor model Miele 30" Chef Oven. Price was $2,000.00 and dealer (whom I like) included 5 year warranty.

Pros:
Matches our Miele speed oven, microwave and warming drawer
Great price
Reputable dealer

Cons:
Others have had issues with temperature accuracy and pre-heat speed. I will watch this like a hawk and make sure to test these items thoroughly thanks to heads up from GW members

My DW has only used the oven so far three times but all three times the oven has been a big success:

1) Chicken Picatta - turned out great
2) A casserole (I can't recall what it was but it turned out fine)
3) Tonight she made three sheets of cookies and these turned out very nice (I can attest to after having sampled 4 of them).

So, we are quite pleased so far. . .

Also, we bought the standard Chef model and the interface is stone simple. The owner's manual is well laid out and easy to understand - I read through it in 15 minutes.

Negatives so far - hmmmmm, DW would have loved to have had the Electrolux or Wolf ball bearing glide shelves and sexy blue interior.

However, $2,000 (plus tax and $125 install) including extended warranty and the mild advantage of having it match our existing Miele items won this particular selection.

And, Miele has been planned (had one at last house and LOVED it) for the replacement of our (quite noisy IMO) Kitchenaid dishwasher so we are kinda headed towards "uniformity of Miele" land which is kinda nice visually.

Thanks again for the well thought out advise and tremendous information brought forth by GW members!


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RE: Elux, Bosch or Wolf Single Oven?

Oh, I had said "DW hated the knobs on Miele Chef model" - it so happened that she was remembering the knobs on a certain Bosch oven and when she saw the Miele Chef's knobs she was entirely OK with them. I might add that we had also found a Wolf L floor model with a dent for $2,000 but when we saw it we didn't like the color at all - it was a discontinued color - "Carbon Stainless" and it would have looked odd with the rest of our typical looking stainless appliances. And, the good news about finding the Wolf for $2000 as I used this as leverage to get the Miele Chef floor model down to $2,000!


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RE: Elux, Bosch or Wolf Single Oven?

I have a Bosch single wall oven, model HBN3450UC, installed in May of 2012. In short order, grease began to build up between the two glasses. One Bosch representative responded with "not under warranty because the problem is cosmetic, not functional." I asked to have a superviser contact me but even after two follow up contacts with this person, no supervisor has responded. I mailed a letter to the address on the Bosch website given as the contact address; however, the letter has been returned to sender. I called my appliance dealer and was told that it will cost $300.00 to clean between the glasses. He mentioned that this problem occurs randomly. The oven is not a year old, there is no warranty on the problem, and Bosch appears to be unconcerned that I will have to spend a good amount of money to clean up their mistakes. i will not recommend that anyone install any Bosch product because this company does not seem to care about the quality of their products and particularly does not express concern over their customers' satisfaction. AVOID BOSCH.


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