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hobokenkitchen

Another 'Am I Over-reacting' Post!

hobokenkitchen
14 years ago

Our kitchen was finished a little while ago now, but there are still a few finishing touches that needed to be done.

I had a difficult conversation with our GC last week about it and would like to run it by some unbiased sources to see if I am being reasonable or not.

Some of you may remember that our renovation was not without incident... which happens. Half way through the reno I contacted our GC and asked him to be more present during the work to oversee some of what was going on. We would see him maybe once a week for 10 minutes, and that was it. My husband also called him and asked the same thing.

He told us he would make sure he was there more often.... but that did not happen.

During the renovation our guest bathroom shower stopped working. The GC brought in a plumber to look at it. I clarified that we understood that the work to the bathroom was over and above any work to the rest of the house. I was quoted $900 for the shower piece.... not that it needed a lot, but the part was (apparently) very expensive due to the complexity of the system.

After it was fixed by the plumber, the shower works.... on a mediocre basis. The GC looked at it before Christmas and commented that it didn't seem like a $1000 fix.

Last week I received the bill for the shower, which was over $1200. Surprised I looked at the bill and noticed a 10% charge on there along with various other fees..... for no apparent work. I asked the GC about it while he was at our house and apparently the 10% & other fees are for his 'effort' in meeting the plumber at our house.

I told him that I didn't think that was fair given that he should have been at our house anyway doing the renovations to the kitchen. I reminded him that we had specifically requested that he be more present at our home during the renovation, but apparently we have to pay extra for him being present during the plumber's visits.

What do you think about this?? Fair enough to charge more because the bathroom work was seperate from the kitchen work, or not right because he should have been at our house working on the kitchen anyway?

Directly following this conversation he announced that he didn't remember several conversations about small jobs that needed to be done around the house... or rather that he remembered some but not others. He apparently remembered more when I quoted conversations we had had about them verbatum, but it was very difficult and I came very close to losing my temper with him.

I did call him after the altercation and told him that I take some responsibility as I should have insisted on each and every item (no matter how small) be included in our initial contract and it's clear that we remember things differently. I did get very firm which I think surprised him as he hadn't really seen me like that before.

The silly thing is that we are arguing over a half liter of paint and a couple of lines of caulk. It's so ridiculous, but I'm afraid to get our final bill because who knows what unpleasant surprises and upcharges will be on that.: (

I know it's partly my fault for not having each and every item in writing and I feel like an idiot now obviously, but was I right to get as firm as I did, or is he right and I'm just over reacting?

Comments (10)

  • squigs
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    verbal can be a problem, although with an evolving project like a kitchen remodel it can be hard to get everything down in writing. Let me ask you this. Do you feel like your GC has been fair with you moneywise up till this point? If he has, I'd probably let it go because it's not that much money in the whole scheme of things. But if you feel he's been nickel and diming you all along, I think I would quibble over the charges with him.

  • pence
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If your kitchen remodel was set up that the GC received 10% above all materials and labor or even just labor then I don't think it odd that he would add 10% to the bathroom bill.

    Though from your perspective his "effort" may have looked like nothing, there may have been many phone calls behind the scenes to the plumber for scheduling, discussing the situation and how best to fix it, finding out when parts were coming in, when the work would be finished. GC's spend a lot of time on the phone following up on all their subs to make sure things are being taken care of in a timely manner, it doesn't usually mean standing over them making sure the work is being done properly. A good GC will already have good subs and know that they do good work.

    That's my answer to your question.

    The rest of your post didn't really have a question.
    It sounds like the stress from the whole event has gotten to you. He obviuosly doesn't run his business like you thought he would or like you think he should. But you're not marrying the guy and he will be gone from your house one day. I hope you can work out your paint and caulk issues.

  • lisaslists2000
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't really know if you're overreacting. After spending so much money with him, it seems like he could cut you a break. However, perhaps you should have gotten a change order or a little mini contract from him on the bathroom. I guess put as much effort you feel is worth it into getting your desired result and whatever the outcome is, just take a deep breath and go with it. HTH a little.
    Lisa

  • User
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, you're overreacting to the 10% markup issue. That's standard construction industry practice. And it's standard construction industry practice to have more than one job going at once and to oversee many projects from the telephone rather than in person. It doesn't mean that you got less supervision on your job. It means he trusts his contractors to do the job he hired them for and doesn't feel they need direct supervision except in certain phases. He could have had an on site "go to" guy to act as his liason and site supervisor if you were uncomfortable with this, but if his subs are experienced, it really isn't necessary.

    However, you're not overreacting to the lack of documentation for the change orders. Every time something beyond the original scope of the contract comes up, it should be documented in writing. At the point you had your sitdown, if you had begun more documentation, perhaps this would have been a more accurate end result. That way there would be no he said/she said later on. However, that horse has long since bolted from that cart. There probably isn't much you can do about that either at this point.

    Understandably, you're stressed, especially since you're wondering how much all of these other changes are going to cost. You need to calmly sit down and have another conversation about that issue.

  • marcy96
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Every GC works differently. Mine was on my job almost everyday, working along side his subs and workers, except when the floor guys were here staining/coating the floor. But then he stopped by after they were done to make sure that I was happy with the job. That's why I hired him as I liked having him there every day. Some GC's work behind the scenes and trust their subs to get the job done. It sounds like that's the way your GC works and maybe your expectations were different than what you received. I think you just need to have another conversation with him - put on paper what you would like done and ask him straight out if it's going to cost you more. Then decide if you want him to do the work. As far as the shower goes, he should have told you ahead of time that he was going to add the 10% - I might argue that one with him. Take a deep breath and try not to let the stress get to you. Good luck!

  • hobokenkitchen
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the comments. You may be right that I am overreacting, things definitely started on a sour note, so maybe I am more sensitive than normal.

    Our project was not a cost plus 10% basis - it was fixed price for the job. I've never heard of cost plus 10% for anything other than designers, but perhaps it varies in other areas of the country?

    When the GC bid on the project he went to great lengths to tell me how much attention he pays to details and how other poeple are sloppy, but he takes great pride in making sure everything is done to the highest quality. Well that may be true, but I wouldn't know as we have been dealing with his sloppy subs throughout the project, not him.
    Then there was the fact that his partner offered us $4000 for our old kitchen and then decided he didn't want it after all as soon as it was demoed and all the pieces were sitting in our living room. As we are in a city row home we had no where to store anything and the impression we got was that he hoped we would just say take it for free to get rid of it. It defintiely put a bad taste in my mouth. He ended up taking it away and storing it in the house he had been going to put it into and we were able to sell it as a package on craigslist for the same price - could have got way more if it had been here and people could have come and viewed it.

    I will also say that having done many projects with different GCs I have never had one who was present less than this one, and given the number of problems we had with the project I do not think this is ok. It's one thing to trust your subs, and another thing to leave it to the home owner to have to spot and address every mistake made by the subs with no presence from the GC at all. It was very stressful for me as I am always the one who was home and always had to point out when things were wrong.... which I think is the GCs job and why we hired him.

    Also for the record I have requested a list of 'additional charges' several times, and haven't received anything - this may also have contributed to my frustration over hearing that the remaining couple of small things which we discussed from the beginning were now going to be an 'extra'. It makes me worried about what to expect when the bill finally comes.

    At this point I just want to pay for what we need to pay for and be done. It's a shame, we gave our last GC so many referrals, but I just don't know that I am comfortable referring this crew. I know some of his clients hire him on the basis that he does all the work personally. I guess we should have just done that. Live and learn.

  • hobokenkitchen
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Marcy96, this is the way our last GC handled our last project too. He had several other projects going on, but was at our house working along his subs every day for at least a couple of hours - longer on some days, less or not at all on others, but all around present.

    I just don't think 10 minutes once a week or even less - sometimes we wouldn't see him for a couple of weeks in a row - is enough.

    Well maybe if the crew was running super smoothly, but that wasn't the case. We had all sorts of issues which Imainly had to handle myself.... and get all sorts of attitude from his crew. It was really exhausting. Also he really shouldn't have told us he would make sure he would be here more after the window centering incident, if he had no intention of actually following through.

    Ugh, the whole thing has just been tricky but I had shaken off the irritation until last weeks fiasco which just brought all the frustration back to the surface. It's time for this to be done and over. : (

  • dvdre
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Our contractor added 20% to the sub costs in his written contract. But after that, he agreed to waive the 20% upcharge when, for example, we go over the granite allowance or the extra charge for an ebony wash on the cabinets.

    If we added a significant new repair/work to the job, we'd probably have to pay the 20% extra. But I would want the full quote up front. That is only fair. If he told you $900 it should be $900.

  • niffy
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You mention "10% and other fees" - what were the other fees? The markup appears to be 33% on top of the $900 - so I do think it's excessive!

  • hobokenkitchen
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Niffy, the other fees were for patching the dry wall where the plumber accessed the part. It wasn't clear that was above the $900 either, but what can you do? It's the 10% that really annoys me.