Yowza. Whoa.

Nothing is getting any cheaper, is it? Glad we're done with ours forever.

Yeah, well, then there are the rest of us! :-)

Some people are paying more for their kitchens than we did for our entire home and property.

Thanks for sharing this. So interesting! I just hope it doesn't blow up our plans for an early 2016 remodel. It would be nice to hear of others' recent experiences here, perhaps some who used a one-stop reputable kitchen remodeling group but not the separate KD.

I find the numbers useful and accurate to a degree. Qualify them with kitchen size, and especially, your expectations.

I'm in the middle of a 150K fully involved kitchen redo (50k worth of cabinets) and the 3K worth of cabinets for a 7K kitchen redo (all customer DIY) will come in Monday. Both are white shaker, but one could fit 4 of the other in it's footprint. There is plenty of room for all budgets from almost any KD. Just not all expectations within those budgets.

While both kitchens were fun to plan, there is something about a small kitchen with space and budget challenges that is so very satisfying to create. The gentleman doing all of the labor for his house has a great can do attitude. When we first met 6 months ago, he didn't have enough saved to even buy the 3K worth of cabinets. We discussed the layout possibilities, and where it would be wise to spend money, and we made a plan for him to order right after he received his Christmas bonus at the restaurant. And the work he's done in the meantime on a shoestring has been astonishing!

He had the right attitude of seeing what his budget would purchase rather than having a laundry list that would take 20K to start with and then feeling disappointed and have to cut back 90%.

My thoughts, too, laughable. I live in a low cost-of-living area. Low average incomes as well. You can still buy a nice little starter house here for about $50-75k. Mid-range homes $75-150k. Then up from there but as the price goes up, there are certainly a lot less homes at the higher prices.

Believe me, very few people in my area are spending more than about $15-25k on their kitchen remodeling projects. Most of us are spending much less. It just doesn't pencil out to spend more than that.

Now, if I drive about an hour east, it's a totally different market and I'm sure lots of people are spending those kinds of dollars.

As I read that blog entry, I actually feel a bit blessed to not live in such rarified air. There must be so much pressure at that level of living to have just the right stove, right counter, and other accouterments. Heck, just the fact that I'm putting in a prep sink is getting oohs and aahs from most people I know.

I'm also a bit cynical. The article is written by an interior designer. Of course someone who makes their living by selling you a higher-priced kitchen is going to want you to spend even more on that kitchen.

And what the heck was all this "kitchen of your dreams" crap? Really? While I'm enjoying this forum because I'm learning a lot and I do want a nice kitchen to work in that has both good function and a pleasing appearance, I don't dream about a kitchen. I dream about living a long healthy, happy live, and that my children and their children will do the same. I dream about a lot of things but when it comes to my home, or my kitchen in particular, I dream more about just having a comfortable, pleasant space for my friends and family to gather in, not about the rooms themselves. But maybe I'm an outlier here?

I don't know...I just know that I almost quit reading after the 5th or 6th "kitchen of your dream" statement. Gag me.

LWO your story of the guy buying the 3k cabinets made my heart smile; thanks for sharing.

As for the article, the prices quoted there are pretty beyond most homes in my city. The average midrange remodel of $56k they quoted would be considered more of an upper level remodel here; from the quotes I got and discussions with my realtor, KD, GC, etc it seemed like $20-30 was the average for a full redo

I'm with you, funkycamper. We're building a new house right now, and the kitchen is 14x18. Kitchen budget is $8000. This is actually realistic, as we do all the work ourselves and will be using Ikea for cabinetry. I've already got all the appliances, including an awesome 36" Thermador range ($1000 on Craigslist, score!) and I found solid surface black laboratory counters at the restore store for $60 (enough for the whole kitchen, seriously.) I'm making the light fixtures.

I love this kind of thing, though. It's a hobby. I'd so much rather be creative and make things work than have to manage a bunch of contractors.

I do love getting ideas from those gorgeous hundred thousand dollar kitchens, though. :)

It seems though, the remodels cited there were pretty much mid high to high end remodels (but not the uber-high end) managed via well established remodeler or design firm. Having finished our project in 2013, I find their figures pretty spot on for my area based on the higher quotes I received (scaling for certain higher end things we cut and the two years that have passed).

Deleted.

This post was edited by Jillius on Thu, Jan 22, 15 at 5:08

My rates just went up.

This article is on point for my current planned remodel. My kitchen is oddly shaped, maybe 250-300sf. I had a high-end design build company come in and give me a $115-150k range. (Pretty big range, no?) I've received another proposal for $85k, and waiting on 2 others. I'm trying to get it to 75k plus appliances.

We're a no-debt kind of of family, so if I can't get costs down we'll have to save a few more months until we can build more savings. We're in our forever house, and our kitchen is such a poor layout that I'm dying to get this done!

Wow, $150,000.00 kitchen? I cringed when I read that. We are building a new home in central Illinois, small town. My builder allowance for kitchen cabinets is $13,000.00. It's a small kitchen about 10 1/2 ft by 11 ft, so that is pretty doable for us. Mid level cherry cabinets. that doesn't include appliances or backsplash or the special order pantry door. We bought our island separately at a cost of $1,600.00. So I guess our kitchen will actually run about $19,000.00. This is our retirement home so we are trying to be frugal but still have a lovely home. Sometimes I feel we are trying to build a champagne house on a beer budget.

This is all marketing. The rich don't get rich by throwing their money away. If you don't carefully plan spending, you won't stay rich.

Yesterday, I saw my elderly neighbor unloading the groceries from his eight year old Mercedes. He had gone to the grocery on Wednesday because it was senior citizens day and he got 10% off.

This man is worth over $100,000,000. Yes, that's ONE HUNDRED MILLION. He's a really nice guy. He buys his groceries on discount day.

He doesn't live like pauper. He spends his money carefully and deliberately. It's all about planning.

Looks like my budget needs a bump.

There are far less handy people that are into DIY than there used to be. People have to rely on paying contractors for a lot of things that used to be done as matter of course routine maintenance on a home. Like cleaning the gutters and fixing a faucet drip. So, translate that to a kitchen redo, where the homeowner doesn't have the skill, or the time, to DIY anything. That's how you get 150K kitchen redos. The costs of labor really add up.

The other culprit in the mass scope creep of remodeling projects is the information age and the entertainment industry bringing home remodeling onto the small screen structured as a mini drama. Not a documentary. People are exposed to so many of the 100K kitchens through the internet and home decor sites like Houzz and here that they become desensitized as to actually how extraordinary those 100K kitchens are when placed in the context of Middle America.

I've really begun to hate the word "aspirational". Not to mention the phrase "dream kitchen". The whole article was a mini love fest for the upper 10% project. Sure, those are great projects to watch take shape. In no way or form are they truly "aspirational" to most Americans.

Too many Americans have been sucked in by media exposure and have brainwashed themselves into thinking that they are entitled to the same kitchen in their own home. And they have nowhere near the budget to accomplish that level of project. They get angry when you show them the "average" cost of what they want. Like you're putting prime steak and all the trimmings in front of someone who is on a diet. The steak isn't the problem. The diet isn't the problem. It's wanting the whole steak while on a diet that is the issue.

I think a lot of people underestimate the cost of kitchen renovations (or builds). I have seen so many posts (here and elsewhere), of people shocked at their $20k cabinet quotes. They thought they could do the whole kitchen, including labour, for $10k.

So I think the article is helpful for the people whose expectations are way too low.

But at the same time, her numbers are coming from people who specialize in high end, all-pro projects. So their average is not indicative of the population overall.

My current house is typical and average for my area. I redid the kitchen in this house a few years ago for under $25k, no appliances, no major plumbing or electrical, DIY'd the demo. The house I am building is above average for my city. I think I'm probably about the bottom end of the "aspirational" homes in the area. I'm looking at $25k for cabinets, probably about $40k all in for the kitchen. (There's no demolition in that, and electrical, plumbing, and permits are part of the overall house build.)

I went to one local place and asked for a ball park on their prices. She told me they had never done cabinets for a whole kitchen for less than $35k. And she made it sound like that had been a charity case. I'm sure if you asked that business what the average cost of a remodel is, it would be well over $100k. But their clients are not average people. Their clients are the kind of people who would by my new house so their kids' have a place to live while slumming it as students.

Funny that GreenDesigns and I both used "aspirational" (in quotes, too) while posting at the same time.

In my case, I meant it as the category of homes that most people look at with awe, and recognize that they will likely never live in that. Either because they can't afford it, or because it's not something they would ever choose to spend their money on. They either love it and would love to live in it someday, or wouldn't necessarily want to live in it, but appreciate that it's above average.

Ugh. My kitchen definitely turnout out pricier than I'd hoped. Most of my costs were in line with what I'd expected, but I ended up choosing custom cabinets, in a large kitchen and dining with lots of cabinets, so that choice cost me lots. I am very happy with the lovely cabinets, though. It's all about choices . . .

If you took this article and used cars to compare instead of Kitchen costs then we'd be looking at high end exotics like Lamborghini... I mean some of those kitchens on Houzz cost more than my whole house! And the article noted some ranges are 100K plus?!? Must be nice... now back to reality because I doubt the people buying the 100k range is on GW...

There is always going to be a huge gap in what people pay for their kitchen remodels.. It's just like cars, if you can afford the 8,000 oil change on a McLaren then you can probably afford the 150k-600k+ kitchen remodel... For some of us, the 8,000 oil change would buy all of our kitchen cabinets LOL

But then there is Mercedes and Kia, both will get you from point A to point B but then cost comes in to play. This is no different than cabinet choices or what appliances you pick. There is lower end/builder grade, and then there is fully custom expensive stuff.. Sorry if I offended anyone using "Kia" as the low end example.

My wife would kill me (well she knows me) how much I plan to invest in our next house 800sf+ kitchen & breakfast area (not the formal dining room).

Design is still in progress; more cabinets and few more appliances to insert, reassign cabinets and build an island; this is just one part of it.

In 2006 I remodeled our kitchen ( 20 x 12 ). We have a higher priced home, and we had premimum appliances. For the materials only - no labor it was about $75,000.

Sit down and make a bill of materials, here's mine:

7 widows
3 6 panel interior doors
1 exterior door
5 ceiling lights
3 can lights
1 more fancy light over kitchen table
base and wall cabinets ($20k)
Viking range / refrig / hood / exhauster ($18k)
Make-up air
Miel DW
Smeg wall oven
Granite countertops
Sink / strainers / Grohe faucet / disposal
Maple floor.
Electrical switches and outlets
Wiring / Plumbing
Misc: Drywall / Paint / Floor finish

I can see the average remodel to be atleast $50k.

I feel like if you can afford it, do what makes me happy. Don't go into debt, don't spend half your salary, and don't get caught up in should-haves.

We're not getting a 20k fridge, but will go for custom cabinets because our space is unique and I'm picky about wood. No $2k faucet, but soapstone is on my wish list. I plan on splurging on some things and saving on others, and hope to have a kitchen I can be happy with for as long as I'm in this house.

The sad thing about the reality check in the article is that although the $500K kitchen with the $100K is the equivalent of the Lamborghini and not a Tata Nano, the article does discuss a typical price range of $80K (2nd tier market) and $100-150K (high cost market) as likely the budget for a remodel. This is more like a Mercedes budget, and not one of the high end ones at that. It is the budget for a mid upper to high end remodel, not a super high remodel.

BTW, there have been some kitchens here on GW, that have included pricey elements including 40K to 60K ranges and budgets over 200K

I put my final budget in my reveal (to help others), but it took work, compromise and craftiness to keep it down. Had I gone with my highest bid and not made certain choices to keep things in check, our final bill would have been over 100K. That total made us hyperventilate, and one GC was actually sheepish to deliver the quote.

With today's materials and appliances it's very easy to start getting into some high numbers pretty quickly.

Three items in my previous kitchen:
Subzero fridge, soapstone, and a run of custom cabinets (not the entire cabinet order) added $20,000 to the budget for a very small kitchen.

I don't think it's possible in some low cost of living areas to do a mid range kitchen and stay within the percentage guidelines of the overall price of the house anymore.

(And Subzeros do end up in some relatively modest kitchens here because the houses are so small.)

I don't think it's possible in some low cost of living areas to do a mid range kitchen and stay within the percentage guidelines of the overall price of the house anymore.

Definitely true. We are buying a 5 bedroom/4 bath house and 9 acres for 130,000. When (if....) we add on/remodel the kitchen, the kitchen costs alone, not counting the addition, will hopefully be kept to 30-35K. way out of the percentage range. That is probably the lowest we can do it with all new cabinets appliances and everything, but doing everything ourselves. Even lowering expectations, as was mentioned earlier, could not get this house a functional kitchen for 20K (15% of value), factoring in labor costs.

Saw this the other day @ KBIS show in Vegas. I guess this would be the Lamborghini.

Full disclosure: I am one of the designers that contributed to the article. Just wanted all to know that there are soooo many variables with the remodel of a kitchen that we in the forum where some of this info was gleaned, also could not agree on what to include. In my rather modest area of North Florida I work on kitchens that range from 30 to 75k. A huge chunk is appliances. A high end package can be 20k or more but many less exp options are out there. It is also dependent on labor costs ( which can be super high) , if any construction is going on etc. But nice cabinetry that will last does cost money. And is worth it. I love the creativity of some of these posts! Using craigs list to get gently used appliances is great and if you are handy, using diy skills also good.

But one thing I would say, is that a good designer is worth it regardless of most budgets...if you plan to resell your home or truly want to get the most out of it. There is simply no way for an average homeowner to know what I ( or my colleagues) know when I spend 24/7 immersed in the field. You are buying intellectual property and I understand many people do not want the extra expense but I can always save people money in the long run even if just with sounding board advice. And this is the same with most designers. Some do not do small jobs granted. But there is always someone who will. Overall these numbers are spot on. But does vary by percentages depending on your locale. And am with you on not spending too much on a home that is not in that same price point. Would be foolish. But that is when good overall advice can come into play! I like it when my clients say 'cheryl I have 5000 to spend to improve my home. How best should I spend it!' That is how you get great feedback.

Here is a link that might be useful: in Detail Interiors

indetailinteriors, welcome to the forum!

You should poke around a bit, you might be surprised at how in depth the kitchen layout threads get, and how helpful the KDs on this board are. People here are really passionate and knowledgeable about kitchen design, and with some research and help from the great posters here, people can design fantastic kitchens on their own.

I'm also amazed how many people start threads with layouts from professional KDs which just do not have good function in mind. Simply going to a "professional" and trusting their judgement is a mistake, IMO. There are also several good RTA options for cabinets that are well built and will last a long time, and are reasonably priced.

I know not everyone is willing to do DIY work, but a lot of it is simple and easy if you're willing to watch a couple of youtube videos and ask advice.

Here is a link that might be useful: The last kitchen we did, budget $7500 including appliances

@ raenjapan. I agree with everything you said. And your kitchen is lovely, especially on the budget you did it with.

@indetailinteriors: My worst kitchen was one designed by a KD. Yeah, it looked nice. Function? Not so much. Of course, I realize not all KDs are created equal and, in my rural area, we're pretty much limited to the KDs at Home Depot. HD probably has some good ones but we didn't happen upon one, that's for sure. And I can see from your portfolio that you do very nice work, beautiful designs and there is nothing cookie-cutter about your work. I can almost imagine the personality of the different owners through your work.

That said, I did see a few kitchens which have issues often cautioned against here. Mainly DW in-between sink and cooktop and an extremely narrow cabinet between sink and cooktop in one kitchen, an area deemed prime real estate here and which shouldn't be scrimped on.

I, too, have seen some of the amazingly talented folks here help tweak a design by a KD and make it far better,usually related to function, often, this also translates into improved aesthetics.

The KD I worked with never came to the house and only worked from measurements. And never asked questions often asked here like how many cooks, size of family, how the kitchen relates to other rooms in the house, how often does the family really cook, what type of cooking is usually done, does the kitchen need to work for large gatherings and entertaining, hobbies that might need space in the kitchen, do you bulk shop, yada yada. Do you ask those types of questions to help figure out the needs for that particular kitchen?

I'm curious. You said you work on kitchens in the $30-75k range. You also say you'd be thrilled with a client who says that can only spend $5k. Those statements aren't congruent.

Question: Would you spend as much time and attention to detail on the $5k kitchen as you would a $50k kitchen? Again, just curious.

I realize my post might be coming off as accusatory or argumentative and I don't mean it that way. I'm just a bit of a cynic based on my own experience and of KD-designed kitchens I've seen in the homes of a few friends and family.

Interesting what several people have said about the price of a mid-range kitchen in an area of low-cost homes. I've long said the same thing about high-cost homes. If I spent 15% of the value of my home (in high-priced San Francisco) I'd have the "aspirational kitchen of everyone's dreams" - at that price, I could even include a $100,000 range LOL.

When we built our house 15 years ago, we went to a kitchen place our builder recommended. Thet had different levels of cabs, some very expensive. I did not like the KD's attitude or designs and I could not get the cost estimates to get an idea of what we would be spending. He had expensive ideas and I finally realized that their cabinets that were in the price range of what I wanted to spend were not what I was looking for. I got a referral for another kitchen place and I liked their attitude and their willingness to discuss options and costs up front instead of waiting till the design was done. She was an excellent KD and helped us keep costs down. She was creative and had good design sense and knew what would work in a kitchen. The kitchen turned out great for a reasonable cost.
Two years ago we moved to another state and found a house that met all our needs except that it had more a expensive kitchen and bathrooms than what we wanted or needed. We bought it, but believe me, I wish I had my simpler less costly kitchen that was well designed. Everthing costs more to fix and/ or replace. I never thought about my last house as a dream house, but I realize it WAS our dream house, just not a magazine dream house!

funky camper:

The" kitchen designers " at HD and other big box stores are employees who are trained to plug components into the manufacturer's software, for the most part. They don't have to have any particular credentials. "Designer" is almost as overused and misused a term as "luxury". That's why more states are starting to limit the use of certain designations to those who actually have some sort of training. In places like Florida, you can't call someone who just got a job on the sales floor of a price point furniture store an "Interior designer". In some places you can. So you probably had a lousy experience partly because your kitchen designer was no designer at all. Their previous experience at the store could have been in the tool cage.

hockeyfan, true. A million dollar house here, certainly does not warrant a $200K kitchen any more than a $50,000 house can necessarily get away with a $10K kitchen.

I wanted to share this $7000 kitchen makeover I just came across from younghouselove.com

Before:

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After:

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Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchen details

There seems to be a certain amount of judging going on here. We live in San Francisco, one of the priciest housing markets in the country. We bought our 1921 California bungalow, 1650 sq. ft. , in 1985 for the then-exorbitant price of $172,000. We could not buy it now, when all the houses around us go for $1.3 million or more. So if we need to fix our kitchen, 158 sq. ft., which was last done in 1972, and has an oven with only one hinge, it is going to cost a bundle.

In our case, the "bundle" is $79,000, and we are in the middle of it right now. We are not buying lamborghini equivalents.

We spent $10,000 to replace our refrigerator (KA), double oven (Bosch, because they DC'd the KA we ordered, and the size had to fit the cabinets), cooktop (Thermador), hood (Zephyr), dishwasher (Bosch), and sink (Franke). Could we have spent less? Yes. But I cook and bake a lot. We could also have spent way more. I am religious about following Consumer Reports suggestions where possible.

We are spending $36,000 on our contractor, a price which is probably more sensitive to location than any of the other costs. But this includes bringing our kitchen up to code, which it was not in any respect. Electrical was positively dangerous. There was no wallboard behind any cabinets or appliances, which we have been told is a fire hazard. And the floor (originally tiny pink and turquoise tiles when the house was built, replaced many times) is being replaced by an oak floor to match the rest of the house.

Even here, we are splurging bit, on gum wood molding to match the gum wood wainscoting in dining and living rooms.

Our cabinets, Columbia, a middle of the road semi-custom, are $22,000. But our kitchen is an odd shape, and off-the-shelf cabinets wouldn't fit in many places. Here, we could have spent less only by getting fewer cabinets.

The counters are Cambria quartz, $6500. We could have found a cheaper material, but CR says quartz is the sturdiest, and we never want to replace counters again.

These are the big costs, but the project is full of smaller ones where we could save money or not:

the breakfast nook needs a 30" x 54" table, and we couldn't find any trestle tables that size anywhere. The one we have, with its formica top, is ancient and not worth the cost to fix. So there goes a $1500 dollars to have it made.

the tiles, $1400 (for materials. our contractor's price includes installation), could have been cheaper. But we were trying to remain true to the spirit of our craftsman-ish house, where all backsplashes were tiled, right up to the cupboards. And we got modern tiles that look like arts and crafts style, so a bit more expensive.

I hope that for anyone reading this, they get a realistic picture of what it costs to get (to continue the car analogy) more like a top of the line Prius than a Cadillac or Rolls Royce.

For some reason, I am not seeing all the responses, even though I checked the box. I've been having this issue on other threads as well, has anyone else?

I agree that location is key for so many reasons detailed above, but also that labor would seem to be the main variable, as a fridge is not going to cost drastically different in different parts of the country, is it?

But I think what the designers who wrote this were trying to do was to inject a little bit of reality into the expectations of homeowners. The inexperienced remodeler who has been watching just a little bit of HGTV is going to be pretty disappointed if they think they can gut and replace a kitchen for 25K, even though I just saw that proposed on Fixer Upper the other day! Yeah, and they'll give you a new bathroom for just a little more. I'm sure Waco is a cheaper place to live than here, but still! I just wish those shows would have a big block of text at the end that showed what the prices would be without donated labor and wholesale prices.

@kts1952: Thanks for sharing your details. It's good to see another reference point in Northern California. I considered some of the same product lines and issues as you (had a table custom fabricated for our nook via an Etsy craftsman) and had to spend more to do things like custom match our 1937 floors.

I've found that Porch has one interesting advantage over Houzz -- some actually list the project cost and home cost on some of the photographs. Some of it is deceptive, however (totals only for the whole reno)

@lori_inthenw: I do think labor is the biggest variable, materials do remain pretty constant although markups on non price regulated lines are impacted by lower costs (real estate, labor, etc) and competition. Conversely, I've seen quite a bit of variance on stone pricing across the country (more rural markets pay a premium based on lack of competition and higher transport costs). Regulatory/code and insurance differences can also impact budgets.

I think people also make the mistake that a smaller kitchen is going to be significantly cheaper than a larger kitchen, and that has not been my experience.

@palimpsest - I do realize all that re: designers vs. "designers". However, in my neck of the woods, that's all there is. To find any kind of real kitchen designer, you need to travel over an hour away and they are not interested in dealing with you unless you're spending a LOT more than most people I know spend on kitchens. So we're limited to either working with a "designer" or doing what I'm doing this time, self-educating and using the advice of the many talented people here at GW.

@kts1952 - I kinda think the judging is against those who aren't spending a lot on their kitchens so I think we're perceiving the opposite, lol. BTW, your kitchen sounds lovely. If I did a $79k kitchen remodel, that is half my home's value. And my home is considered a nice home in one of my area's nicer areas yet it wouldn't be practical to spend that much. If I had to sell, I would never recoup it.

@lori_inthenw - Actually, in my area, if you want something other than HD or Sears sells, appliances do cost more. I just spent some time in our nearest big city with dealers for brands like Bosch, Liebherr, etc., as I was interested in a tall, narrow fridge column. Depending on the store I was at, I was quoted prices in the $350-500 range just for delivery. Since they delivered for free in the metro area and for $50-75 in the suburbs (I asked out of curiousity), I'd sure call that a price increase.

I looked up a Kohler faucets on Home Depot and was amazed to see they go up to four figures! It's no surprise the rest of the kitchen goes up from there.