If it helps to visualize things better, here's a few more pictures. I’m not really looking for decorating tips at this point. I have already been keyed into looking major issues my prior plan had for line of vision, balancing major items in the room better, etc.

I’m sure I’ll come back for help when it’s time to choose backsplash and such. We may decide to add windows but that can be done later after the main kitchen work is done. We will plan any wiring we need to run to go along the edges of the wall behind the range (wires already need to go around the glassblocks) so adding windows doesn’t interfere with any potential future changes to that wall except, possibly, some adjustments being made to the hood install.

I just thought it might be helpful for you to see the idea of where I’m going in a more visual way.

With just the windows/glassblock as is. Yeah, I love modern art. Will probably not do a print above the picture window though. Makes it look too cluttered, imho.
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Some variations with adding windows or more glassblocks. Again, no need to make a decision on this now. Just fun to play with.

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I’m less inclined to go with this as I really like glassblocks and they are original to the home so Id like to preserve them but thought it worth mocking up for future consideration anyway.

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I look forward to your feedback.

Did you try extending the glass blocks all the way to the left, so they are behind the sink too?

No, didn't think of that one! I wonder if they still make the same style/size of glassblocks so I'm just adding to the existing ones. I kinda hate to tear out and replace the originals. Will have to do some research. Good idea!

Quick mock-up. I like!

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Will do more mock-ups with the other window ideas later. Really must get onto other things for awhile. I've been here all day and neglecting everything else. But this place is so much fun!

I seem to be missing something fairly common in a kitchen - where is the refrigerator?

@sjh - the fridge is on the lower left in her first three floorplan drawings.

I love the glass blocks behind the stove and I'd leave the walls above them bare so it doesn't get too busy back there. But that's something you'll be able to tell about better when things are done - then you can tape fake windows or pictures or cooking pots or whatever up there and see how it looks.

What about this? Take the top row of the original brick and use it to extend the glass brick all the way over. That way there is no need to match the original material.

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I wouldn't do subway tile with this -- just painted drywall with the glass block backsplash and the window.

@sjhockeyfan - LOL. Sorry I forgot to mark the fridge in the first drawings. Yes, lower left corner of the kitchen layouts.

In previous discussions, it was pointed out to me how the previous fridge placement (see first floorplan showing more of the house) blocks the view to the window and just kinda juts into the kitchen space. We can't inset it enough to get rid of that visual jarring.

So I decided to move it into the side of the broom closet, kinda in the doorway between kitchen. We've been pretending it's there to see how it works and it's really only about 1.5 steps farther than the current placement so it's really not that much out of the way.

The best thing is that it frees up so much more counter space. I'm almost tripling my counter with this plan. I've never had so much in any kitchen. I don't think I'll know what to do with it all. The only thing I'm more excited about is two sinks that are both deeper and bigger than my current shallow double-sink. Yay!

@jan_in_davis: Yes, I actually kind of like the simplicity of that, too. Excellent idea to tape up fake windows or pots, etc. I never thought of that! I figure that wall comes last after everything else is done so plenty of time to decide.

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I appreciate the comments but what about functionality? I think it will function great but I know I could be missing something important. Anyone?

@Jillius - Oh, I like that idea. It follows that look of intention you've previously mentioned and echos the horizontal lines prevalent in the rest of the house and the hood.

I've snipped it and put it in my online file drawer with the rest of the ideas so I don't forget it.

I wasn't thinking subway tile. Just chose that as the IKEA planner has limited options. I'm thinking either square tiles the same size as the glass blocks or, if that's too busy, making most of the wall the same wood that will be on the other walls in the combined rooms. Above the stove, I could put some clear matte glass over it to protect it. But lots of time to make a decision on that wall. So many other decisions take priority.

So, any comments on the layout? I realize it's not much of a change from the final one in the last thread but if you think I've missed something, I'd sure like to know about it. Thanks!

Hi Funky,

I see a few 36" wide cabinets in your plan. I'm recalling folks having some problems with sag - both drawers and shelves, uppers and bases - in that width. You might want to play around with 30" or 24" widths instead.

Well, I still have some strong reservations about the peninsula sticking up above the window. But aside from that, I have a slight suggestion for your work zones. You have the cleaning area well out of the prep zone, but as I understand it, you need two cooking zones because you have two cooks. You have created two work zones already, but they are a bit on top of each other, especially en route to the stove. This would spread them out:

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You might also consider adding six more inches to the counter next to the clean-up sink (where you currently have 30", I am saying consider going to 36"). The person following the blue path will appreciate a full three foot work space next to the sink.

But this is more a matter of priorities, so you'd have to decide if it matters more to you to have those six inches as counter or as walkway.

I do see how that small tweak might work better. We'll play around with it. I've been a bit bugged about clean-up sink and range being right across from each other even though there should be 52" between them which is 4" more than the recommended for two cooks working butt-to-butt.

While DH and I are sometimes in the kitchen together, we're really not usually cooking together. Sure, he helps once in awhile, but he usually only really cooks when I'm not home. As I think I mentioned previously, his kitchen stuff when I'm cooking is usually making a snack because he can't wait 30-60 minutes for dinner to be ready. That's why I am thinking about a separate beverage/snack center in the laundry room.

I realized this morning that I made a mistake with the glassblock renderings. I was outside and looked at the blocks, now only seen from outside, and they are large blocks single height, not doubled. 12" squares so not quite full backsplash height. I did some googling around and haven't found glassblocks that big but I'll keep looking.

If I can find matches so they can be extended across the whole wall and then change the window, centering the range would look good. If not, that might look too wonky to me. I'm not big on having total symmetry but still have my wonky limits.

We have been using a bureau in the kitchen to play with space needs and I think going with a 36" cabinet there would get too tight. We start getting into congestion issues. I suppose we could split the difference and go with a 33".

Thanks....I really appreciate all the time you've given me.

I'm guessing that since people aren't jumping in saying "no, it's horrible" I'm good to go with maybe just some tweaking, possibly changing more to your new recommendation or leaving as is. I think both ways would work, yes?

I've been measuring for storage ideas not noted in my drawings. Like a place for hanging towels that is hidden yet gets air for drying, a possible pull-out spice rack next to wall by range and more. I'm sure I won't attain the level of some of the clever, beautiful kitchens I see here but it will be ever so much better than what I have now.

I'm anxious to get started! Thanks again for sticking with me.

I agree with you about not having the stove and clean-up sink back to back. I forgot to mention that benefit to the tweak I made. The tweak also means that both main work spaces would have views out the window if you do a long window on that wall. Rather than cabinets in your face while you are working in your baking area.

There are a lot of things you could do with the glass blocks. You could reuse the original ones in another part if the house -- perhaps in the bathroom? Or as a feature above the master bed or something like that. You can reuse the idea of the glass blocks in the kitchen, but get new ones that are the size/number you need. Or you can reuse the originals in the kitchen or pantry, but not in their current location.

I think attempting to use the original material in its original place will constrain you both in function and form. Especially if you can't find matching material. You should be able to put the stove where it works the best rather than conforming the location of the stove to the location of the backsplash.

All good points to consider. Will have to discuss with DH. He's able but not super-willing to work on this project. If it were up to him, he'd slap a coat of paint on the walls and consider the kitchen done, lol. So I'm trying to find ways to do this that somewhat alleviate the work he will have to do but still come up with a nice, final project. Although I know he will get more into it as he starts seeing it take shape based on past history of remodeling projects. He whined about taking down the wall between DR/Kitchen but now loves it and often says how glad he is that it's gone. I have to gently lead him a step at a time. And keep baking pies!!

I'll look for glass blocks and price regular windows and see how it all falls out.

Function+Form+Budget+DH'S Motivation = lots of things to balance.

Yes, I can visualize a few places where we could re-purpose those glassblocks. But not the bathroom. I think the 9' wide by 5' tall wall of glassblocks in there is quite enough, lol.

As you work to motivate your DH. I thought of a certain thread. Its one of the classic threads in the link below. Some of these threads you might want to read over and over as you experience the ups and downs of remodeling.

Here is a link that might be useful: Funny threads

>We have been using a bureau in the kitchen to play with space needs and I think going with a 36" cabinet there would get too tight. We start getting into congestion issues. I suppose we could split the difference and go with a 33".

Actually, keep 30" so it doesn't feel at all congested and just get a cutting board that can sit flat on a third or half of the clean-up sink. If you are prepping, you won't need the whole huge size of the clean-up sink. Just part of it and more counter. It occurs to me as I say this that I should also do this in the one place in my kitchen where I don't have enough counter.

I think what you have is workable and certainly minimizes the work and need to buy too many new cabinets and keeps existing plumbing in the same place. Just need to add plumbing to the cleanup sink and dw. If you are comfortable with it then I'd say it is a good compromise.

I have one concern though about the fridge location. Make sure the 36 inch aisle there is wide enough to pull out fridge and push it in to its spot without issues especially since it doesn't have space for you to fit in front of it and at least my fridge doesn't move well side ways. Only had back and forth rollers.

@tbb123 - Sorry I haven't responded to your post yet. Good point on the 30" vs. 36". I do recall people having some problems with the 36", especially if heavy stuff is in them. Thanks for reminding me. My widest of the current cabinets that we'll be re-using is 30".

I'm still defining exactly what will work best for accessible point-of-use storage. Once I get the layout fine-tuned, I'll finalize my choices, keeping the width issue in mind. And may replace or re-work some cabinets to get some creative storage solutions. I'm scouring everywhere for those kinds of ideas. Not because I need more storage but because I want easy-access storage.

@Jillius - Yes, another thing I should add to my "balancing act" equation is the desire to maintain as much of the original elements as possible against what makes sense for both function and form. Good point on not constraining myself too much in that regard. I also sometimes just want to take the quickest and easiest way out.

Between being cheap, it being a DIY project, and DH's heavy work schedule and need to maintain rentals plus a lot of maintenance/repair at his mom's home, this project is already going to crawl along at a snail's pace, no matter how much pie I bribe him with. So I need to stop myself from making a bad decision just because it will cut time to complete.

I hear your concerns about window height with peninsula. I think I'll play with the counter running into the window sill and resting on top. Since there will be no moldings around the window, I think this might work fine. From outside, the window is up high enough that someone looking up at the house shouldn't notice it. And hope that will make it look intentional, not a mistake.

DH said no to replacing both of those windows to raise them. If I worked more outside the home and had my own income to put towards this, I'd do it anyway but since he earns about 85% of our money but he gives me about 85% of the say-so in how it's spent, I try to respect any strong feelings he has about things like that and he very rarely says no.

We already do the cutting board over sink thing. If they don't fit in my new, bigger, single sink, I'll be sure to get another that does.

Our extra fridge died last weekend. Thank goodness all the salmon and halibut was in the real freezer. The fridge freezer mainly had several roasts, a huge bone-in raw ham, and a turkey. So I've been roasting like crazy this week, then refreezing the cooked meats in smaller, meal-size packages. So I've been washing out a lot of big pots and pans and. yikes!, I hate my small double-sink. I can't wait for that big sink to go in. I think I'll be doing happy dances for days when that happens.

@debrak2008 - Thanks for that link. I'm saving in my clip file so I can go to all the links shared in it. I may have to add more of laxsupermom's secret weapon to my pie-bribery, LOL!

I already read the OTK one. So that's what OTK means. I've been wondering. Hysterical. If the others are as entertaining, I'm set!

@lyfia - Thanks for pointing out the fridge issue. The fridge is only 25" deep so we should be fine maneuvering in that aisle. And since the sides and back will be permanently exposed within the broom closet, still with door access laundry side so we can use the rest of the closet for storage, cleaning coils and other such maintenance should be easy.

I don't know what kind of wheels it has. If it needs to come out for some reason, we can always slide it out onto cardboard and then push it around that way to protect the floor.

And thanks for saying the plan is a good compromise. I guess, at this point, I need a little encouragement. I just hope I'm not compromising away too much.

@Everybody - Again, I can't thank you all enough for all you've done for me. If you want to message me your addresses, maybe I can send you all a good pie? :)

The fridge is only 25" deep

Is this a new fridge? If so, why aren't you keeping it at the beginning of the L, as in your previous layout? I think fridge would be too far from both the prep sink and the range when it's near the broom closet.

Hey, sena. Yes, new fridge. Our extra fridge/freezer in the garage just died so we went ahead and ordered new but it's not here yet. Will move current down to garage.

I know! Choices and compromises, right?

If I keep fridge at beginning of the L, I lose the nice baking center and gain a bit of an obstruction in view of picture window over sink from dining area. Also negates possibly using Jillius's latest suggestion regarding centering range and moving prep sink to the short L. But, yeah, I would save 1.5 extra steps for me to get to the fridge (one step for DH).

If I put the fridge in the broom closet, I gain that baking center and open up the room. But then I have to walk those 1.5 steps farther to access fridge, one step for DH. Note that the fridge faces north (north being the top of the layout, i.e. the sink/range wall is north for this purpose).

I've role-played fridge in the new location numerous times and I don't believe it will be an issue but we'll continue to assess it before tearing out the side wall of the closet. Since there are trade-offs both ways, I have to weigh which gain/loss makes more sense for us.

One of my other considerations: I don't bake a lot but I should. DH and I both have diabetes. We keep it fairly well under control with a low-carb diet and exercise but we both miss breads too much to eat that way more consistently. I know, saying I should bake more sounds contradictory. There are a lot of good low-carb breads, muffins, etc., that I could make to help us keep better to a low-carb eating plan. But it's a pain baking in my kitchen so I just don't. The more I consider this issue, the more I'm convinced that we would benefit from a baking center where everything can be in reach and make whipping up some low-carb biscuits or muffins a quick and easy process vs. having to make several trips into the pantries in laundry room like I do now.

So, yeah, choices and compromises. I'll keep assessing this.

In case anybody is still following, lol:

I've been thinking of Sena's fridge placement concern. The fridge I ordered has a door that can be reversed and is actually 26" deep with door. So I think we'll try it for awhile where the current fridge has been, on the end of the short L. We can inset it into the wall with the door reversed so it swings left and, thus, won't crowd the person at the sink. I'm wondering if we do this if it will be back far enough to now crowd the line-of-vision to the window? We should be able to get an idea of that without actually before we tear out the wall to see if it will be worth it to inset it. Although i do hate to lose that long baking counter.

But we can also take out the side wall to the broom closet and play with the fridge there. If we don't like that, I figure we can get cabinets to fill that spot. They could uppers and lowers with counter and a better landing spot/command center than I currently have. Or just a pantry. Might also make a good place to put a small microwave a bit closer to cooking area.

Anyway, just mulling options. It will be fun to play with all this.

Went to a big home show in the Big City a 90-minute drive away. Hoping to see some unique and interesting ideas. Well, that was a waste. Didn't really see anything any different or better than what I see at our HD. Bummer. But had a nice visit with my friend that came with me so that's good. Won't waste my time on home shows again if this is all they have.

My next venture out-of-town will be to some of the bigger Habitat Re-Stores. I've been told that a couple have amazing selections due to being in areas more flush with cash and a lot of high-end remodels. After looking at photos online, I kinda wish I'd thought to check them out sooner for my fridge. Hoping to find some nice cabinet boxes in the sizes I need so I only have to order door/drawer fronts from Barker. I don't mind multiple trips for the right cabinets as this will save hundreds over buying new cabinet boxes.

Wow, I can't imagine building a whole house. A kitchen is enough work for me!

Hi Funkycamper

I'm not sure where you came from in term of design, but I like where you are. As I was reading through I thought I'd comment on adding extra counter at the cleanup sink. If I heard you correctly, you seldom have two people working in the kitchen, so with all that other counter space you have, it might be nicer to have the wider aisle than wider counter? Just a thought. Oh, and having to convince the DH about a project? It's s the same thing here - I convince DH that the change is needed, will be an improvement, etc. and when the project is finished he takes all the credit for planning, execution, etc.! It always causes a laugh amongst our friends and family.

LOL, aren't Hubbies funny sometimes, sheeri58? Well, I have to say, mine does give me all the credit for planning. We just call him The Handy Man, sung to the tune of The Candy Man. He never claims to be The Idea Man. :)

Thanks for liking where we are. It's nothing super-clever or innovative but it still took awhile. And I'm sure I'll keep tweaking.

Are you speaking of the 30" deep clean-up counter? Since there's a sink there, and I intend to put a couch or chair on the other side, I kinda thought that there should be some counter behind the faucet to help keep folks from getting sprayed. I wouldn't mind stealing a few inches for aisle. We're finding in our pretending with the bureau that 54" feels better, that's 2 more inches. I wonder if a 28" deep counter there would be adequate and that would get me to a 54" aisle.

Neither of us like sitting at a counter so that's why I'm planning a flip-up counter behind the sink. We have a large, enclosed porch off the laundry room so I thought we could put a couple light stools there that we can bring in if, for some reason, we want counter seating. Probably just when we're entertaining. And I could see it useful for feeding the kiddies if we ever have grandchildren.

Hmmm...once we get the peninsula built, I figure we can play around with placement a bit before we add in any plumbing. Thanks for pointing out something I should be aware of and think about before finalizing.

I may have misunderstood the earlier conversation, coming in late as I did. I was referring to the 30 inches of work space beside the clean up sink. I believe you are considering 33 or perhaps 36? Would that be done by increasing the overall length of the peninsula thereby reducing the aisle width? If so, and you think that aisle might be tight, I'd be tempted to keep the peninsula length as is. Hope that makes sense.

Oh! D'oh!!! I had forgotten about that little debate, lol. Thanks!

Yeah, I'm still narrowing down just how big of a single sink I need. I know a lot of folks are putting in single 32-35" sinks and love them. But, gosh, even a single 28-30' sink is huge to me, especially with the deeper depth I'm getting. I've measured my biggest item and it's only 24" long so I think I'd be super-happy with a bit smaller sink, which will still be huge to me. And then I can have a bit longer counter. Or bigger sink, 30" counter.

My huge turkey roaster, only used when making about 25#-plus turkeys would be a tight squeeze but that's about 2-3x a year so i can deal with maneuvering in a smaller sink that seldom. When I'm making smaller turkeys/roasts, I use a much smaller roaster which will fit fine in a 28" or 30" sink.

And, of course, the sink size impacts counter width. I would hate to have less than 30" counter on that side. So that's my minimum limit.

Still weighing the options. I'm not inclined to go any less than 52" in that aisle. I prefer 54" or more. I like wider aisles than the minimum recommendations so this will definitely factor into my decisions.

Glad to see you are still working it out, Funkycamper. The nice thing about a DH that's super-busy is that it gives you LOTS of time to think, and plan, and go through scenarios. Then one day...he's on it. And for me, I'm usually not ready-Gasp! Hopefully you'll be better prepared than I tend to be. ; )

I think if this was my kitchen, I'd put the fridge in the closet and have the baking counter like you were planning. 1 to 1.5 extra steps aren't that much, but the extra counter and storage sure are valuable!

Hope you can find those cabinets you're looking for. : )

Here's a tip on planning your peninsula: On your dresser, tape off the area you are planning for the sink so that you can pretend like it's a gaping hole and then work around it. I did this for our old island, and it was one of the best things I could have done. It saved me a lot of trouble so that I didn't put the sink in a spot that would have made me bananas. I needed my sink to be off-center so that I could have a wide swath of area to one side to work on. Now, it looks like your peninsula will be more of a clean-up counter, but still. I'm sure when you have company you will probably work at the peninsula because it will be more social to face your guests.

We just got home a bit ago from dinner out with friends. She said to me "how long do you think your house is going to be torn up, 6 months?" I laughed and replied "oh, I'm thinking 6 years!" The look on her face cracked me up. But they're in a bit more affluent lifestyle and hire contractors for all work so she doesn't get it. That's OK. I'm used to it and it does give me time. Ha!

Good idea on taping off an area on my bureau for pretending. I haven't gone to that extent but it makes. Inches matter so that makes sense. Thanks!

Oh, yes, I'm so excited at the idea of more counter space that I think a bit farther to the fridge will be fine. But will still play with it to be sure. I just love the idea of having spaces that can be dedicated to certain tasks. I've never had that before.

This post was edited by funkycamper on Sun, Jan 25, 15 at 1:16

I also think the farther fridge is totally fine. The fridge in its original location made it very awkward to have two sinks, which you specifically wanted.

Yeah, I'm sure it will end up in that closet niche. I really want that baking counter! But if it had to be in the current fridge's location, it would work better as it's a single-door, not a side-by-side, and the door is reversible so it could swing open without swinging into the person at the sink. It's nice to have options.