Can you post a diagram with measurements? You can just use graph paper.

We had a similar dilemma: kitchen was supposed to be eat-in but wasn't big enough for our family to actually use it that way. All eating was in the DR but adding guests meant tacking on a card table to the end and throwing a table cloth over the whole shebang, but then someone was stuck in the LR (the doorway just bridged the card table).

We took out all the walls and made the kitchen/LR/DR open with a big island with seating for four. We only got the counters Friday and they aren't fully installed yet (DIY soapstone) but already we LOVE it. We haven't gotten stools yet (that's another thread) but the big girls are kneeling on chairs at the island b/c they desperately want to do their homework there. :D

Here's a rough sketch of our before:

And our after:

I consolidated formal & informal dining and removed the wall between kitchen and dining room in my house and we're very happy with it (see link for details). Your space is different though, so it's tough to say in your case.

I think you'll get more helpful input if you post a layout that includes adjacent rooms as debra suggests.

Here is a link that might be useful: Gordo's kitchen & dining before & after

It looks like you could gain a lot by knocking out that wall! I see what you mean about both spaces (dining and eat-in) not being big enough. If you run your dining table the other way, I'm not sure you'd need an island (but it's hard to tell from the photos).

BTW, your formal dining table is wider wider than standard, which I think contributes to the tight feel in there.

This post was edited by GauchoGordo1993 on Mon, Jan 13, 14 at 20:34

I would DEFINITELY knock down the wall! Not just because we had a similar kitchen/DR and that's what we did. Your DR is extremely narrow. That 9 foot width must be a hassle every time someone has to try and get around the chairs when everyone is sitting down.

I wouldn't say that you HAVE to incorporate an island in the kitchen. Yes, you would give up the total # of seats compared to what you have now, but I promise you will love that opened up space SO much that you will wonder why the heck you didn't tear down that wall sooner!

Obviously, you would turn your DR table 90 degrees. There are lots of creative things you could then do with that space. If there's enough room, I would move the buffet to between the two windows, you could then perhaps incorporate your bench/nook into the far corner between the two windows. Throw some fun cushions on there, and let it be a reading area, and possibly extra dining space with foldable tea tables when you have lots of company!

Did I mention, take DOWN that wall? LOL

Yep, I think the wall needs to come down. I will update with to scale drawings ASAP- just so ppl can get an accurate idea of what I am working with.

Thanks everyone!

Aha! After dealing with some silliness with neighbors and having to get surveyors out for fence lines (You know⦠good fences make good neighborsâ¦)

Here are the poorly drawn graph paper based drawings of the two rooms in question for your viewing pleasure. This was a half hour today- one that I chose to use doing something useful, rather than nap on the couch with the dogs while the kiddos napped. :)

and

If you remove the wall, could you give you dining room another foot or two of width? I think 9' is tight. Ours is 11' wide and that feels about right to me, but even 10' would seem a lot bigger than 9'.

Take down the wall and split the space more equitably. Maybe a peninsula and no island.

We replaced the wall between our kitchen and dining room with a peninsula and we couldn't be happier with it.

Hmmm, my only concern with knocking down my wall is that the other wall of the kitchen (directly on the other side of the living room) will have to stay. It is weight bearing, as well as a dropped ceiling(the kitchen/dining room have normal ceilings, the great room has vaulted ceilings).

So the thought was if I open the kitchen to the dining room, I am still going to have an odd configuration of 8.5 ft wide (floorspace, not including cabinets) by 17.5 long (floor space)

Thats why I thought just buying new furniture would be the best option but noooooooo DH doesn't want to do that!

@cevamal if you are still on this thread, I have a layout very similar. Bilevel (not split entry) with almost the same layout.

@Gaucho- you said that 9 is tight. If I tore down the wall, it would be 8.5 at one end, but there would be so much open space it would not matter.

I wish (correct) answers were as easy as making a cup of coffee. *sigh

Thanks everyone for the joint brainstorming!

I'm suggesting removing the wall and giving some space to the dining room. For example, remove wall and replace it with a peninsula shifted 2.5' over, which will make the dining room 11' wide and kitchen 15' long.

I would knock down the wall and put a table in there that is rectangular and has the head looking into the kitchen.

If you still feel it's tight, I would get rid of the desk and pantry. You could consider putting some cabinetry on the wall next to the sliding doors if you miss the pantry. Cabinets on that wall would be better than on the LR wall, because you want to pull the table a little closer to the LR anyway, because of the door and the sink. The cabinets on the LR wall create more of an "S" than a rectangle.

You could also do a bench along that wall so you could put the table even closer to the wall.

You don't really have space for an island. You might do a peninsula coming out from the sink, but I think that would be more of a barrier than a help.

Knocking down the wall would give you a family kitchen.

The "formal" dining room is so small it's useless. I would get rid of it and plan a kitchen that will be more all-purpose comfortable.

I would not worry about the furniture. The big $$ is in the reno. Do that first. Then the furniture will be wrong and it will so obvious that it must be replaced. You can Craiglist whatever does not fit.

BTW, bearing walls can be removed and replaced with a beam. Sometimes it's easy & cheap to do this, and sometimes it's more complicated & expensive.

Another issue to consider is the doorway in the kitchen. It looks like a main traffic path from entry to kitchen to the backyard. If you do not want to removing the bearing wall, at least explore closing off this entrance and removing a few feet from the end by the DR. It will give you many more options for cabinetry and furniture placement.

How often do you have company? For the time being, could you not just remove the leaf? It should still seat your family of 6. I have a 60" square table (with the leaf in) that seats 8. In our last house it fit fine in the kitchen, but in our current house, the kitchen is smaller. I just removed the center leaf and made it into a rectangle (I store the 2 extra chairs and the leaf in the basement). It still seats 6 and I don't have to reach so far across to wipe the top.

But, if you are set on reno, I would remove the wall and that desk (it's pretty large). Then move the pantry over to the other doorway. (I would not close off that entrance, if anything I might increase it's size a little). This should gain 3' - 3'.5.

Not to be bi*chy, but, I think you should paint those lower cabinets white also. Those dark lower cabinets suck the light out. I feel lighter lowers would help to "open" that space too. When we moved in here, our cabinets were golden oak (personal preference, I don't care for golden oak). I painted uppers and lowers white. It brightened up the room and made it appear larger.