How were you planning to vent your stove? Moving it to an interior wall would seem to make it more difficult to vent outside. I also don't love having a refrigerator dead center in a run of cabinets. Personally, I'd pay the $3000 and stick to the original [IMHO better] layout.

I'd pay the 3k too. BUT. How important is your family room? Both drawings list the depth at 10 ft, even though one has 2 feet taken out there. An 8ft deep family room would be bad.

But you really don't have enough depth for a peninsula unless you remove the seating and slide the peninsula closer to the doorway. That's one squishy U.

I'd see about a smaller island (possibly movable), and try to arrange things like in the island plan (obviously modified) and not moving the wall. Forget about serious seating at the island and add length to the table if needed.

Can you use a header (as over a door) to recess just the fridge, into the den? Then have built in shelves to complete the wall in the den. Or, do you have furniture (entertainment center, etc) that would fit there?

The fridge wouldn't need to be recessed full depth to gain some space for the island. How wide are the top and bottom aisles in the current plan?

It seems a little tight w/the peninsula...I think I'd stick with the original plan rather than the peninsula. How does your family use the den, though? Is the living room your main gathering spot? Did you ever consider just completely removing that wall, putting your eating area in the current den area, turning and enlarging your island, putting your range where the fridge is, putting your prep sink in the island, using the area where you currently have the table as a sitting area with a couple of comfy club chairs?

I am by no means a layout expert, though, and there may be huge flaws with this idea! :)

I meant to add to my previous post: If you partially recess the fridge, the pantry in the current plan would be shallower, depending on the amount of space available. Boxes could be built between the studs, therefore not affecting the structural support of the wall.

I have a pantry with 2 sections, each built between existing studs on a kitchen wall. It's only one can deep, but holds a lot of cans, jars and small items.

I'll post a link to an old pic of the pantry, from my kitchen album, in case I'm not explaining the idea very well.

Here is a link that might be useful: pantry in progress

Yeah, I do what mamagoose recommends. Or just use the original layout but shortened up by 2 feet. This would mean shortening up the island so it only has seating for two. Then lose inches from each section on the long wall (corner to range, range to prep sink, prep sink to corner) to make it work. I wouldn't take them all from one section.

Although, without dimensions, it's hard to tell how much counter you'll lose and if that will still give you decent clearances between main work areas. Could you give us more dimensions, especially counter lengths in those areas and that whole wall?

I do what mamagoose recommends.

funkycamper, I recommend you send me some money. ;)

@mamagoose - Ha! I advertised your amazing skills. I should receive a check spreading the word!

@AnWLee - We opened up a load-bearing wall in our last house creating an 8-foot wide opening between kitchen and family room using a 4x8 for the header and additional 4x8's on each side of the opening. We then covered these with nice wood/moldings. Perfectly fine, passed inspection and only cost a few hundred bucks. I guess I just don't understand why you need such an expensive header. But, hey, I'm no expert. Investigate further. I don't want to be responsible for your house falling down.

It is recommended that one plan for a minimum of 24" width for each diner. Your island is already tight for seating three people. If your kids are little, it might be fine now but it won't be when they're older. Also, if all three of you are facing the same way, it makes conversation difficult and uncomfortable. Far better to have one of you around the corner, with your island seating in an L-shape, to make conversation more pleasant. If you took out one of the cabinets at the end of your island on the work-side, you should be able to seat 2 + 1 in that L while making your island shorter.

If you go with mamagoose's plan, your fridge will probably be inset about 4". But your losing 2-feet. So this will take away about 20" from your aisles. If you took them out evenly, this leaves you 30" for each aisle. That will be a traffic nightmare. You must shorten the island to have a decent width aisle on each side. I don't see a way around that. Of course, there are many more creative people around here who will probably come up with a solution I'm not thinking of.

You don't have room to turn the island the other way. It would then crowd your table too much.

If it were me, I'd nix the island seating. You're only saving a few steps for clearing the table. In fact, if you sat at the end of the table nearest your DW/clean-up sink, I don't think it's even that far. Can't your kids help clear the table? If they're too young now, they will eventually be old enough.

Again, unless someone more creative pops in here, which is always a possibility, I don't see how you can shorten your kitchen and keep your island and still walk around your kitchen.

Maybe one of these can work.

1)

{{gwi:2137153}}

Because the peninsula is quite long ypu may consider moving DR to Den to gain a few inches of extra aisle in this one. I forgot to add the 2nd sink. It would be useful as pot filler or draining water or alternative prep. Narrow pullout pantry b/w the fridge and wall, shallow cabs b/w window and slider, in addition to the pantry cabs others suggested.

2)

{{gwi:2137154}}

I'm not sure you can keep the raised DW in this one.

In both layouts, you may need to have a backless stool for the seat at the short end of the peninsula, as your aisle could be tight there for a seat.

3)

{{gwi:2137155}}

If windows aren't installed yet you may have this, but island would be tight for 3.

I think that the wall should be removed. You are already planning on a structural beam. Why not bring the wall down?

Move the big table to the den space. Looking at the current plan, it doesn't work to have a big dining table adjacent to an island with seating. There will be a huge conflict between the two banks of chairs.

I think you should place cabinetry and appliances along the wall where the dining table is currently placed. This would give you a big open kitchen with seating and a nice dining area. You even have enough room for a sofa, chair and TV.

Thank you, funkycamper, we'll call it even!

AnWLee, after reading that your aisles are 40", I'd recess the fridge completely, as originally drawn, providing you can do it less expensively with a header. (Note that the doors will still protrude into the room, so that they can open fully.) Then split the difference between pantry and den. On the den side you can have shelves or cabinets for storage for your kids' stuff, a TV area, or even a window seat-style reading nook. Use the remaining space on the kitchen side for a shallow pantry. Or, I think you could have full extension pull-out shelves (roll-outs?) if you wanted to use the whole depth for a pantry, but I don't know how the cost of custom pantry system, and shelves for den, would compare to just ponying up the $3000 for the LVL beam.

I like funkycamper's idea of a seat at one end of the island, where you can have eye contact as you share a meal with your kids. I will say (and this works for me, in my small kitchen, although it's not ideal) that my 3x5 island is sufficient for 3 on one long side--my DD and her DH often sit on one side, with my 7yr old grandson sitting between them. I have a swing-out seat on each end, so the island can seat 5, for quick meals. When not in use, the swing seats take up no aisle space--our aisles are less than ideal, too, at 38-40".

I had help with the structural parts of my kitchen, including an LVL beam (DIY version, my father called a gluelam) where we widened an opening between the kitchen and dining rooms to 8'. I am very happy with the remodeled, much improved kitchen and DR.

I'm linking some threads with pantry ideas.

rhome's ultimate pantry thread

Thread with circuspeanut's drawer pantry.

Pantry in a wall.

Here is a link that might be useful: Finished Kitchens blog, for more ideas

Would any of these suggestions work?
(if keeping original plan)

-fridge where DW is now
-switch prep sink & clean-up sink
-DW next to clean-up sink
-shallow (6-8") pantry/storage (I definitely would recess it into studs) on wall between den & kit = not loosing any space from den - as per sena01 plan #3. You be surprised how much could be stored there.
-shorten island by few inches (to accommodate pantry if not recessed into wall studs and/or gain little space in isles); have seating as suggested-in L configuration (remove part of base cab for leg room)

Personally, I would use den as DR and create working-playing area in the kit where dining table is now.
Rina

If you can work out the beam/header/fridge/pantry logistics, I don't think you can improve much upon the original, well thought out plan. The fridge, where it is, will be convenient for anyone coming from the other areas of the the house, and convenient to prep area and dining area. The island and prep counter are close enough for landing space. Alternately, a pull-out, breadboard-type landing space could be incorporated into the pantry cabinet. (Notice how the pantry budget is experiencing 'scope creep'?) ;)

Clean-up area is convenient to dining table, where dirty dishes will be coming from, and out of prep area. Range is protected from through traffic, and is on an outside wall.

You probably won't have diners at table and island simultaneously, so there seems to be enough room for both. Train your family to always tuck chairs/stools under when not in use, and you'll have a nice path between entry/exit.

It seems you want to preserve some separation between kitchen and living areas, absolutely appropriate for an older home. Keep the den for the kids and their friends. I have a playroom off my kitchen--my grandson really enjoys 'his' space.

Thanks everyone for the feedback and suggestions. After much deliberation, we have decided to proceed with original plan + a few tweaks (based on feedback received).

FunkyC's suggestion of L-shaped seating at island. I've added the additional seat on the fridge side since fridge will be french door and it's use is typically brief vs. dishwasher will need to be kept open a while to load it up. Will definitely have backless stool for that one seat as Sena suggested.

We also plan to do full 24" depth drawers under the pantry up to counter height. Above counter-height, The pantry will only be 12" depth. This will allow us to put built-in shelving (12" depth) in the den on the other side. Only challenge now is figuring out where to put a microwave and a toaster oven. I tried convincing DH we don't need a microwave... he didn't buy it!

I also shifted the window over prep sink closer to the pantry wall to enable us to have upper cabinets on both sides of range. That way we can put in a cheaper under cabinet hood instead of one with a chimney.

Sena01, we gave up on the peninsula because we felt the flow was better with an island. Aisle towards big window vs. peninsula or view of side of fridge when you enter the room. I like your suggestion 3) but have already ordered our windows. We placed the order about 1.5 weeks ago in order to get them by March. We decided on fiberglass windows based on lots of reading on GW.

Homechef, we wanted a separate enclosed room off our kitchen for our kids. So we can hopefully contain their crafts & toys and keep the rest of our home neater. Down the line, we're planning on making our basement into a studio/workshop for them to tinker in. We have actually saved our old kitchen cabs & counters for this workshop.

Thanks for the pantry suggestions, Mamagoose. We are going to be putting them to use! I've been scrolling through the finished kitchens blog... thanks for the great resource! Everything seems to be experiencing scope & budget creep in our reno so far. It's getting out of hand... we have nixed putting in gas inserts for our fireplace and replacing our 20 year old furnace (hey, if it ain't broken...) in order to balance our budget. Sigh!

FunkyC, I think the cost for our beam is high because it's a long beam. Since the run is 16ft+, our GC is using triple 12"beams to ensure it's solid.

Here's our updated layout:

Did you keep your 40" aisles? If so, the new plan looks great! It looks like a very functional plan which follows the ice-water-stone-fire concept well, keeps the clean-up area separate from food prep/cook area so zones won't get crossed a lot, and puts the fridge where it's easy for someone to grab a drink or snack without being in the zone of the cook. Yay!!!!

I'm glad you'll be sitting sideways to talk to the kids better at the island. I think you'll enjoy mealtimes much more this way.

If you can steal a few inches from the den shelves for the kitchen, and make the kitchen shelves 15", a Sharp makes a microwave that will fit in your uppers and look built-in, especially if you finish the cabinet with some molding. Link below. That's an easy way to resolve the microwave issue. Of course, there are other counter microwaves that are not very deep that can do the same. It's worth looking around for them, that's just a particularly nice one, imho. And, really, book/display shelves are just fine being only 8-9" deep. Anymore than that and they just become clutter-collectors, imho.

Re cost of beam: I'm still skeptical. You are not totally removing a wall. You're just moving it. Unless there is something about that particular spot that needs the support exactly where it is right now, the new wall should be the new support. The smaller doorway would just need an inexpensive header.

OK, I'm not a structural engineer nor a construction expert in any way so I may be all wet but I'd at least ask that question. I'm wondering if it's easy and more lucrative to do it that way instead of being absolutely necessary. I'd investigate further just to be sure your dollars are going where it's really needed.

Good idea to save and re-use those cabinets. In our home, the PO's moved the old kitchen cabinets into the husband's basement shop. Lots of great storage. Unfortunately, I like the old cabinets much more than the ugly ones they installed. If they weren't horribly scarred by huge gouges and such, I'd be tempted to switch them. Anyway, you will love the extra storage in the basement.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sharp Microwave

I don't know if I mentioned this previously, but your layout is almost identical to the layout of our kitchen in our previous home (which we designed ourselves with the help of some fabulous GWers - the differences are the prep sink was closer to the corner and the dishwasher was on the other side of thesink(we had a wine fridge where your dw is). We lived there about 7 years post-remodel and thoroughly enjoyed that layout the entire time.

Apologies, all. I thought I had already posted a response to the couple posts. I must have failed to hit submit... Too much multi-tasking.

FunkyC, I had to look up ice-water-stone-fire concept. Google search yielded Marcolo's post on GW. It revalidated our kitchen layout and gave me a good end of day laugh. :)

Yup, our aisles are still 40" minimum. I've got an extra 2" (42" total) in the range aisle. The L-shaped seating never crossed our minds, but makes total sense when you think about it.

Thanks for the microwave suggestion. Definitely looking into it and your idea about stealing a few inches from the den shelves. You're right, 9" should do it for us.

SJhockeyfan, thanks for the feedback and confirming our layout can work well. We're actually going to move the prep sink closer to the corner now, to center it to the window. This both makes it look nicer, imho, and gives me 42" counterspace (as suggested by Marcolo's IWSF post) between sink and stove to prep my heart out. My layout is also the result of fabulous GWers (yourself included!).

I am deeply humbled by the honest feedback and help provided by so many here on GW. Thanks all! Am looking forward to being able to pay it forward soon hopefully.

It sounds like you're well on your way to having an attractive and functional kitchen. Please come back and do a reveal when you're done. It's fun to see the final results.

Just one more thought, if you do the deeper pantry cabinets, which I think is a great idea, have them put a plug in and put your microwave in the cabinet if you don't want to see it. I hated seeing mine and use it very infrequently, maybe a couple times a week. I just leave the doors open when I run it, it's been awesome!

P.S. I haven't posted in months because I had major problems logging into GW, but FINALLY all seems good. Yay!

Welcome back, FamCook!

Great suggestion. I was planning on doing that. Am also exploring whether I can stack microwave and a toaster oven (Breville Smart Oven or Cuisinart Combi Steam Oven) in that 36" pantry with a narrow cabinet for cutting boards right beside.

FunkyC, most definitely will be back to do a reveal. It just seems SO far away right now...