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denizenx

Cabinet Elevations: Architect or KD?

denizenx
9 years ago

I'm looking to hire an architect to spec a beam for a load bearing wall, and to draw documents for permits, construction and bids, etc.

One architect offered a flat fee but sans elevations, focusing mostly on space, structure and mechanics, not so much esthetics. Another offered and hourly rate with elevations and help on surfaces, colors, elevations, as needed. It's very hard to make an apples to apples comparison as the latter has not yet proved an estimate on how many hours her work would entail, just an open ended hourly rate ($150/hr).

If I go with the first option of a flat fee without cabinets design and elevations, will cabinet dealer KD's drawings (which are often free) be sufficient, or would the same service by an architect be money well spent?

Comments (9)

  • debrak2008
    9 years ago

    Are you asking if the architect should design your kitchen? If so, no.

  • HomeChef59
    9 years ago

    No to the architect. Look for a KD. The architect may be able to provide a referral. If you want an independent KD, call around to custom cabinet shops. Ask who they have worked with that they respect.

    My independent KD charged me $150 interview fee, $1500 for a full set of plans with one revision. We managed to get it all done without more than the one revision. But, I knew what I wanted and I have no problem making decisions.

    Once you get the first set of plans, post it here and you will save yourself a lot of time. There are many experienced designers and users that are really nice about sharing their expertise.

  • denizenx
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    "Are you asking if the architect should design your kitchen? If so, no."

    Well some do, and some do so well. But it wasn't exactly my question.

    Lets say a load bearing wall will be removed, the bathroom above will have layout changes, and the plumbing will tie in with the kitchen, there will be a riser diagram, etc, and the kitchen will have layout changes and doors and windows may be moved. A conventional door might be replaced by a pocket door, etc. The architect would specify the windows, doors, etc.

    Drawings for permits and construction will be required/desired.

    So the architect will come first and take measurements, design the beam and plumbing riser/waste route, etc. Then a KD (lets in conjunction with suggestions from me, the architect and garden web) will design the kitchen.

    When I have a final kitchen plan I like the architect would then make their final drawings for permits and construction. I gather some people have the architect integrate the KD's design into their final construction drawings, including elevations, so there is one official plan to work from. I'm wondering if it is worth that expense, or is it sufficient to just have a bird's eye layout view from the architect, and cabinet elevations from the KD?

    But maybe I'm working from false assumptions, so let me also ask, how should this work?

  • dilly_ny
    9 years ago

    In my town, construction drawings do not need to include an exact kitchen layout in order to get permits.

    I am sure there are a some architects who can design a wonderful kitchen, but having worked with two architects, I would much rather have a kitchen designer develop the layout. KD's have a more focused expertise.

  • denizenx
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Will the KD work from the architects drawings or will I be paying two people to come out and measure?

    Can anyone point me to their KD's drawings?

    Again, this is because one architect would provide elevations and the other would not. I'm wondering how critical the elevations are? Does your KD provide elevations?

  • HomeChef59
    9 years ago

    I didn't use an architect for my kitchen renovation. I wasn't moving any walls. I did use an architect for an addition to my house that happened to include a new bathroom. The architect did not provide interior elevations, only floorplans and exterior elevations. We tore open two load bearing walls. My contractor provided the calculations for the beams and an engineer reviewed them. At the same time, we also built a detached garage using a hand drawn plan of exterior dimensions.

    My KD measured the existing space. We discussed in great detail my desires. She returned with proposed floor plans and elevations. We reviewed them, made some changes and a new set of floor plans and elevations were produced. These are the plans everyone is using. My building department is not concerned with my cabinets, they only want to know about electrical and plumbing. Each of those sub contractors will be pulling their own permits.

    Architects, structural engineers, kitchen designers, and general contractors all have their roles. Mostly they operate independently. Sometimes they can wear each others hats with varying degrees of success.

  • jakuvall
    9 years ago

    Practically all KD's provide cabinet elevations, they are not needed for permit. They are critical for design.
    (Occasionally a detail section is needed which would come from the architect or engineer).
    Design and drawings are not "free" though they are most often included at no extra charge. Very few KD's will give you a discount for providing your own drawings, local custom makers may require them.

    "will I be paying two people to come out and measure"

    Due diligence demands that as a KD I am responsible for dimensions so I would never use an unfamiliar third parties measure. Some charge to measure, others include it, some require a retainer first, others...

    BUT-
    you are only asking half questions which can't be properly answered based on the information given.

    It really depends on who is available to you in your area for your budget. Talk with some KD's AND some contractors.

    "Can anyone point me to their KD's drawings? "

    too much variation in what is done- depends on the KD.
    Some folks on here have a hard time finding a decent KD, or architect, or contractor. Others have less or no trouble.

    There are people in each discipline who provide all you need, those that work well cross discipline and those that don't. There is simply too much variation in how each of us does what we do.

    I'd suggest evaluating the-who, what and how as a total. That means you need to talk to people IRL.

    BTW...
    based on your description your job could be done by a competent KD who hires in an engineer to specify the beam and stamp it ($1-600)

    Depending on the beam span, complexity connections, and the transfer of load to ground there are situations where I could get permit without an engineer or architect at all. I almost always get an engineer for due diligence and liability, most architects do the same around here.

  • denizenx
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thank you all very much for your input. I'm not going to sweat over architect's elevations. That'll save me some money too.

  • raleighsharon
    9 years ago

    I am an architect (I do not specialize in residential, I work on large institutional projects). Renovation/addition including kitchen is set to begin this week (contractor getting permits today). I've been reading GW for months and it has helped educate me a lot. This is what I've done and how I'm handling the process.

    I drew/modeled the the house and proposed addition in revit. I have several versions of where to put the kitchen/layout etc. And to be honest, I'm not 100% yet. My contractor said I could make as many changes as I wanted until it was time for the plumbing rough-ins. Because the addition involves demolishing exterior wall and adding a large beam w/ a large span, I contacted a structural engineer that I know that specializes in residential projects. I made cad files of all of the drawings and he then created the permit set for me. These drawings don't include any information about interior layouts, just the enclosed structure, foundation, roof, etc. Kitchen layout information/design isn't needed for the permit.
    Last week I sent a couple of versions of my plan to the cabinet guy my contractor recommends. He's a kitchen designer. He's going to come to the house sometime this week, input my plans into his software and then help figure out layouts.
    Hope that helps. I posted one of my earlier plan versions a while back. I probably should post the recent ones.