You say that a lot but provide no supporting information, just a sales pitch.

Here is a link that might be useful: polyseam opinions

"You say that a lot but provide no supporting information, just a sales pitch."

Your link;polyseam opinions
led back to this; "Silicone between marble counter and backsplash is coming off", another Garden Web thread in which one opinion passed it off as a latex caulk.

That person knows little or nothing about the product.

But back to "just a sales pitch".

So, I'll be expecting, but not holding my breath, you to provide a back quote in which I named and addressed a specific supplier.

I speak from over 30yrs. of experience, including yesterday.

markweaver:

Pure silicone definitely sticks to stainless steel. I have reinstalled at least 20 sinks that have failed so I know personally that sometimes I have to take my Rotex 150 on grinder mode with 80 grit paper to remove old silicone from the flange of a stainless steel sink.

Cabinet failure is the least of your problems if your top is stone and has been rodded improperly. Water penetration between the bottom of the stone and the sink flange will dump water right at the rod causing it to rust. Rusting rods expand and expanding rods crack stone.

If you are somewhat handy, disconnect your plumbing and drive a scraper between your flange and top. Remove the sink and remove the old silicone from the flange and bottom of the stone. Install a Hercules Universal Sink Harness (google Braxton Bragg), run a pipe clamp through the sink hole and through a 2x4 spanning your sink opening. Apply 100% clear silicone to the sink flange and tighten the clamp to hold the sink in place until you get the HUSH tightened. Remove the clamp and spray the silicone squeeze-out with Windex. Spit on you finger and remove the excess silicone from the sink/stone junction. Wipe off the Windex and you're done and reconnect your sink.

A topical application of silicone is not going to fix your problem, I promise.

Trebruchet

It's always refreshing to view the detail and extent that is required to properly remove the failed silicone, and prepare the area, in preparation to reestablish a suitable seal.

But what's also interesting, is that you are a proponent of re-using the same failed product.

While I've been required to employ much the same methods of removal and preparation you detailed, I used POLYSEAMSEAL.

As I've said before, while not being the recipient of many dinner invitations, I also don't have any warranty call-backs.

Do it right, the first time.

"But what's also interesting, is that you are a proponent of re-using the same failed product."

snoonyb:

The silicone did not fail. The silicone's job is to provide waterproofing between the sink flange and the bottom of the countertop which it does exceptionally well. It is not the job of silicone to support sinks.

The job of supporting the sink goes to mechanical fasteners. Wood shims with gobs of polyester bridging the flange does not qualify, but I see it constantly.

I would never recommend the use of a latex caulk such as Polyseamseal and I will be dumbfounded if you can find a single granite or estone manufacturer who recommends same for sink use.

Furthermore, Locktite, the manufacturer of Polyseamseal, does not recommend its use between two nonporous surfaces.

Here is a link that might be useful: Polyseamseal

This post was edited by Trebruchet on Tue, Jan 7, 14 at 16:40

" Trebruchet"

You wrote this; "The silicone did not fail.":

Yet previously wrote this;

"Pure silicone definitely sticks to stainless steel. I have reinstalled at least 20 sinks that have failed so I know personally that sometimes I have to take my Rotex 150 on grinder mode with 80 grit paper to remove old silicone from the flange of a stainless steel sink."

"The silicone's job is to provide waterproofing between the sink flange and the bottom of the countertop which it does exceptionally well."

As does POLLYSEAMSEAL. The exceptions are the user friendly workability, can be mixed for color match and is paintable in addition to curing to a smooth easily cleaned surface.

"It is not the job of silicone to support sinks."

That true, despite some hard surface vendors who advocate otherwise.

"I would never recommend the use of a latex caulk such as Polyseamseal"

You are aware that a $.99 tube of painters caulk, is a latex caulk, yet it's only similarity to POLYSEAMSEAL us that it's paintable.

"and I will be dumbfounded if you can find a single granite or estone manufacturer who recommends same for sink use."

I'm familiar with four. But then I caulk the sinks, I warranty the seal, I've gone back after 10 or more years and changed both sinks and hard surface products.

"Furthermore, Locktite, the manufacturer of Polyseamseal, does not recommend its use between two nonporous surfaces."

So, a hard surface product and a SS, porcelain or vitreous china would be acceptable, since those are 1 & 1?

"From the OP;Help! Crisis! I re-caulked my stainless steel kitchen sink undermounted to granite"

By the way American Standard and Kohler, long before LOCKTITE, would include a small tube of color-matched POLYSEAMSEAL with their sinks and tubs, I wonder why.

"I'm familiar with four."

snoonyb:

List them please.

Trebruchet

The rest if the statement should clear it up for you.

If I don't do it, I'm there when it's done.

snoonyb:

I have claimed that I would be dumbfounded if any major granite or estone manufacturer advocated the use of latex caulk for sink installations.

You have claimed that you know of four that do, but will not list them.

I can substantiate the things I say here; I don't think it unreasonable to expect others to do the same.

Since you insist, I will point your failure at reading comprehension.

Trebruchet"

"I can substantiate the things I say here; I don't think it unreasonable to expect others to do the same."

And how many times have you named the vendors you use?

ME;
"I'm familiar with four. But then I caulk the sinks, I warranty the seal, I've gone back after 10 or more years and changed both sinks and hard surface products."

In that statement, which I suggested you read again, "who caulked the sinks", "who warrantied the seal"?

I do not tell them what to use to secure their products to the cabinets. But when it comes to sealing around sinks, tubs and flat to vertical intersections, I do that because I warranty my work and have a 30+ year record of no warranty call backs, from my actions.

My success depends upon me alone and every subject I post about is based upon my having performed those trade functions.

"And how many times have you named the vendors you use?"

snoonyb:

Please review my first post in this thread, where I suggest the use of a Hercules Universal Sink Harness and in parenthesis give the location of the vendor. I'm sure there are more, but I'm not going to search just to prove you wrong additionally.

While I understand your warranting your own work, the written record here shows that you have claimed that you have 4 manufacturers that recommend Polyseamseal for stainless steel undermount sink installation. I simply asked you to specify those manufacturers which you have failed to to. Your failure makes me and other readers believe that you don't have 4 manufacturers specifying Polyseamseal for stainless steel undermount sink installation.

Honestly, you sound like you work for them. Nothing to do with suppliers.

There are many polyseal products, exactly which one are you recommending?

Trebruchet

Your referenced vendor was for a sink harness and the vendor information may cause some in here to accuse you of shilling for them, as they have of me, twice now.

So, now do you see why my relationship with my vendors are sacred?

"Your failure makes me and other readers believe that you don't have 4 manufacturers specifying Polyseamseal for stainless steel undermount sink installation."

You are aware of the distinct difference between "recommend" and "specify", when applied to warranties, don't you?

How about, getting a life?

snookums2

Trebruchet earlier provided a link.

Trebruchet provided a link. I was asking which one you use and recommend. The link goes to an All Purpose. There is also a Tub &Tile version along with many others. Whole heartedly recommending the product but not including which one to use isn't very helpful and wouldn't ensure a good outcome if someone selects a different product.

When I finally settled upon POLYSEAMSEAL, it was the most user friendly product available, which was easily mastered by any homeowner and did not require me or any special tools or solvents to apply or remove.

The original, long before LOCKTITE, was the only formula and only available in white, then clear and eventually multiple colors, which I still use fir color matches.

My predominate formula is the original, however I use several of the others for different applications, as appropriate, including bolt-less repairs to vinyl fencing.

I almost forgot, I do not work for LOCKTITE and have no Idea if they even have a truely left coast plant.

My sink failed last year (2016) after being installed in 2010 Unfortunately, I went the cheaper route ($600) to fix the granite. seal the rusting rod and recalk the sink. Back where I started. Looks like the sink was installed using shim. I now need the contractor to drop out the sink and use a Hercules sink hub and reinstall the sink. If I am following, the contractor needs to NOT use Permaseal but regular calking. Then I need to have the granite repair people back to fix the granite which is splitting again in the fron. No fun doing dishes in the bathroom. At least I can use my dishwasher. Hope to hear back from Mr. Corbett as to what the best calk to use is. Of course, I noticed all of this on Friday before the long Labor day weekend. Thank you for all of the information. I watched the video for the sink hub, makes perfect sense to me!

Also, having watched the video, how difficult is it to drop out the sick since the granite is already in place and the reinstall using the sink hub since the sink can no longer be "dropped " onto the brackets? The video shows only how to initially install and have the granite placed last. Thanks for any help!

Thank you SO much. I had gotten an estimate of $1,500 from someone who was going to drop the sink etc. . Some things about him rubbed me the wrong way, Kind of braggadocious. I guess I either have my contractor do the contracting thing, have the granite repaired by the previous guy from last year, have the sink reinstalled and then the plumbing redone. We bought the sink at Davidson Plumbing and if I can't coordinate the 3 guys, I will have to get a contractor who will do the whole thing as one job. I will print out your instructions and then they will be right in front of us. For the life of me, I can't remember who mounted the sink. I tend to think it was my contractor who it is hard to think didn't do the job the way it was supposed to be done. It is water under the bridge now. I really appreciate your help. I spent almost a year getting my secondary thermostat reworking. I thought I would lose my mind. I became an expert on the motor that sends the command to the gas furnace to cause it to go on.

Regina:

Have them give me a call if needed.

Here is a job Joe did where he replaced the split granite with an apron front sink. This might not be your style, but it would take care of the broken granite for good.

http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/4696057/kohler-apron-sink-rod-repair

Thanks so much, especially, John. I received an email from the Marble Guys who did the $600 job and Manny told me that he only repairs granite, marble, etc. He said that I should have known that it would have to be redone every 1-2 years. Is he kidding?? May have to , give him a bad review , let it go and move on. I have a call into the place that sold us the sink, my contractor, and will call Ken Bauer Kitchens which is very reputable here in Hillsdale. NJ. It was such a small job that I had to get a contractor through my church. Two - four contractors came in the beginning and were not willing to give me an estimate. John, I printed out your instructions step by step and it was so kind of you to offer to do a phone chat if need be.

See if Stu Rosen serves your area, please. If he does, hire him.

Thanks, John. I emailed him at Stoneshine LLC. I asked him to call me since my computer has to be repaired tomorrow. He is 17.5 miles away so maybe it will work. I need it done rather than worrying about the past. I feel bad that my contractor didn't know about a HUSH ( I assume) he was SO diligent. Also, my daughter and her husband only have clamps holding up their sink ( 4 years) in Somerset, NJ. They had the work done through Home Depot. You are SO helpful, whatever goes around comes around so only goodness will come your way.

Mr. Rosen got back to me. Apparently, I need my plumber to disconnect the sink. He (Mr. Rosen) is not sure if he can drop the sink and then reinstall it. He is coming over on Thursday morning. I am really upset to find out that the granite people installed the sink using only 4 pieces of shim to hold up the sink ( I slid my hand under there). That is crazy since one would expect a better installation. My daughter and son-in-law's sink has 4 pieces of granite installed to support the sink. My husband will be calling Associated Marble tomorrow to find out what they have to say as far as helping correct the problem. Now my question is.... Shouldn't the rod ( now rusting) have been removed after the granite counter top arrived on site since the reason to use it is to insure that the counter top did not break in transit?

"My daughter and son-in-law's sink has 4 pieces of granite installed to support the sink."

Their sink is coming down, I promise. It's probably leaking and endangering the rod.

"Shouldn't the rod ( now rusting) have been removed after the granite counter top arrived on site since the reason to use it is to insure that the counter top did not break in transit?"

The rod is not meant to be removed. It is meant to be installed properly and when the sink is installed properly, the rod won't fail. There are Sink Savers, essentially aluminum 2x4s with clamps, that eliminate the need for rodding.

I will let you know how I make out with Mr. Rosen tomorrow. I have the plumber lined up to disconnect and reconnect the sink and dishwasher. Mr. Rosen said he wasn't sure if he can drop and reinstall the sink. Kind of vague on that issue. My contractor hasn't called back yet, if not, I will have to go to a local place (Kuiken Bros.) to get a contractor to drop and reinstall the sink after the granite is repaired. So what you are saying is the the most secure way is to use a HUSH which makes sense to me which involves the clamps you mentioned plus the under wire "basket". Thanks for ALL of the help. One would think that, with all of the granite with undermounted sinks that there would be a standard procedure for installation.

Also, If Mr. Rosen drills out the rod, as he said needs to be done, and it is supposed to remain in place, shouldn't he be replacing it with something which won't rust?

Now I see what you said, 2 by 4 clamps, but WHERE DO THEY GO and can they be retrofitted?

Stoneshine came today, they only repair the granite. The company(BB) sells 100K HUSHs a year but could not give me anyone with experience. We are still investigating that. Thankfully, the clamps for the HUSH are only 1/2 inch and the shim the granite people used is 3/4 inches in width. Looks to be very straightforward to install a HUSH. I will let you know. Do you, Mr. Corbett, know anyone in Bergen County, NJ who knows how to install a HUSH? The problem was caused by the sink being too wide for the span for it's installation. I would have thought that the granite people would have realized that when they measured the kitchen. My contractor called me back and he said that most granite people do not want to fix someone's error. Should have had my contractor oversee it instead of trying to handle that aspect ourselves. He had a detached retina and is backed up with his current jobs so I can't expect him to learn about a HUSH and then do the work for me. Have a contractor who will get back to me, a large plumbing company and my husband's plumber for his office. Just need to find someone experienced in HUSH. A word to the wise, have the contractor oversee EVERYTHING!

The HUSH is very simple to install.

OK, that is the way we are going to go. The first guy came back on Friday and stayed for 1-1/2 hours. Stone Shine called this AM. He also said that he could do the HUSH if that is what I want instead of the 4 blocks of wood. I did some research and the internet says that there should be one rod in the front and one in the back extending 2-3 inches beyond the sink opening. I need to call the initial installer and get some questions answered. I can't understand why the granite cracked only going toward the dishwasher. I used it about 2-4 times a month and had been using the heated dry option. I would hate to have to pull out the dishwasher since the cabinet guy only gave me 23 inches instead of 24 and it was a struggle to get it in. I also need to know how the granite was attached to the top of the cabinets. They were already there. I can't see any plywood. Is it easy to pry off the top section of the cabinet since it has a seam on the front and on the sides.? I will attach a photo after I email it to myself from my phone. The cabinet guy has not called me back yet. I left a message for him on Saturday (he was supposed to be in). Thank God we have an upstairs kitchen sink. We have been hauling the dishes up there and hand washing. We also covered the sink w/ towels and used blue painter's tape around the opening from the sink to the granite.

Here is the photo

Regina:

Relax on the rods, please. They are only there to reduce the risk of fabricators and installers . Once the top is properly installed on the cabinets, the cabinets provide all the strength in tension that was provided by the rods. I've pumped pulled rod slots full of silicone.

Cabinet fronts are easily tapped off and re-secured. I do it all the time. Frameless or framed doesn't matter.

I tend to get too hyper about everything. A real type A personality! That being said, I got a hold of the cabinet guy and he will come over and take off the front apron of the cabinet so that there is access to the rod(s). I have a call into the Granite people to find out how many and how long the rod(s) are. I just can't understand why the crack is running along the front (again) after supposedly being sealed last year and is only on the left toward the dishwasher.

Regina:

As I explained, rusting rods cannot be sealed to not rust. If the rear rod shows no signs of failure, I wouldn't pull it.

Now the initial installer wants to come and inspect it (All Marble and Granite on Garibaldi Ave., Lodi, NJ). Kind of wrecks my week as far as leaving the house. He called me and I read the proposal/estimate to him, he knows the people from Stoneshine and has done work for them. Sal (Stoneshine) told me to "let him know " what want to do" Tone of voice tells me something here has a backstory. I think you are right since the machine they use vibrates re not removing the rear rod. The insurance adjuster is coming at 12PM. Do you want me to send you the estimate from Stoneshine? Thankfully, they WILL install the HUSH. Those blocks of wood holding up the sink definitely contributed to the problem.

The adjuster came and he thinks that the problem stems from the seam that the original granite company that is in the front (and is in the back) that the installer created because they made the counter incorrectly as well as the blocks of wood hold in up the sink. I will attach the seam in the front that looks like it is breaking down. The adjuster doesn't have great hope that it will be covered. He thinks I may have to have the whole counter pulled out. What do you think, John?

Insurance adjusters are notoriously ignorant about countertops. A properly strapped sink holds that seam in place perfectly and very strongly; wood blocks cannot.

These repairs are always about cost effectiveness and that varies with layout and how exotic the stone is.

So how is a sink strapped?/ With the clips or , in this case, the to be installed. HUSH? Turns out that we would not have this problem if we had read the specs which say that the cabinet needs to be at least 27 inches ( Elkay ELU2118) or the granite people had read the specs. So wish that I had had the contractor over see all of this. Cabinet is only 22 1/2 inches and that is why the granite people used wood shim at 3/4 inches for each block and no clips in front or back. Working on this non-stop since 9/1/17. My girlfriend suggested a smaller sink and having a 30 inch section of the countertop removed, matched and replaced and a smaller sink (Polaris P812) which only requires at minimum a 21 inch cabinet. That seems to be wishful thinking. I have to wait until Thursday or Friday to see what the initial Granite Company says. This has been a hard lesson to learn. Don't take on what you know nothing about. We are office workers.

So sorry that you don't live in near us (NJ). I would hire you in a minute. I hope that you survived Irma and were not devastated. I, personally, could not survive that. I worked in the South Tower on the 93rd floor for many years from when (1976) built until 1985. Never felt safe.

Regina:

Your problems have nothing to do with sink size and everything to do with fabricator error. HUSH and Sink Strap are both sink strapping systems.

Got the answer on sink strapping by googling it. Also googled Sarasota, FL, so so sorry for everyone in Florida and Texas. I was 7 when Hazel hit NJ. Felt like I was in the Wizard of Oz. I slipped out onto our screened in front porch and stood there for a while. I will keep my comments on subject from now on. Just wanted/needed to express my condolences to all affected.

Thanks for ALL of your help. I will put this to rest for a day!

Still waiting on Barry from All Marble and Granite who's company did the initial installation and cutting of the granite. Hoped that he would come on Thursday and not Friday since my husband would be here. Wait until HE sees the lousy job his workers did with the schim. Hoping to put this behind me soon since the insurance adjuster told me that this house would not pass inspection if I were to sell it. I will let you and whoever is following this thread know what happens. Nothing compared to Hurricane damage on FL and TX.

Usually when one has a project of this magnitude, a contract should be in place, no? I am waiting on the insurance company which probably won't cover it since it was an installation error. The other thing is is that Stoneshine told me that I SHOULD pull the back rod (same price) since there are no guarantees that is is not going to split the back granite in the future. The cost is around $2,300 plus the plumber plus the cabinet removal, either the apron or the entire cabinet. I need some guarantees that the will do the job correctly, and they will not break my whole countertop. I need to give this a rest until next week.

Regina:

You're really pushing the edge of cost effectiveness here. I'd take a look at top replacement before pulling the trigger on the repairs.

My son-in-law said the same thing. I have 2 small blocks All Marble and Granite gave to me in case I ever needed to match the granite. That should have been a red flag. Can you recommend a granite place ? I found 2 more (for repair) and both said NO! There is a back splash and they gave me a ledge on the window sill. Can you believe I never looked under the sink before and saw the wooden blocks? I will also call my contractor since he deals with granite people. I should have had him oversee this. As I said, my girlfriend found a smaller polaris sink. I am so fed up, I am thinking, if I have to replace the granite, I will use my corian overmount sink that I still have from when I had a laminate counter top.

hi random question - is there any way to adhere a towel bar to the front of the apron on a stainless steel sink? i fell in love with the look and functionality, but these sinks - with towel bar already attached - cost THOUSANDS. i guess my general question is, can a metal object be securely and permanently attached to the stainless? without ruining the color or texture of the sink? thanks:)

Black Mamba.