I tried Minwax gel stain in Mahogany and was very disappointed. I cleaned and lightly sanded and rubbed on and off the stain. Very minimal color change and nowhere near the color shown on the can.

Tried a thicker coat and it was mess. No way to get an even coat no matter how I applied it whether by natural bristle brush, foam brush or by rag. Just too streaky and some bubbles. I called Minwax customer service and they said I should try Polyshades.

So, should I try another brand of gel stain? I heard General Finishes is a good product but I have to travel almost 30 miles to get it. Or should I give Polyshades a chance?

I’m not looking for perfection but I just can not stand those cabinets any longer. My husband just installed a beautiful new laminate floor and it really showed just how bad those cabinets are. Thanks for any suggestions or tips.

Couldn't you order the General Finishes product online? Here's a link: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=11244

I'd like to try the same thing with an old oak vanity. Please keep us posted on what works for you.

The GF gel has a much nicer look, feel and finish.

And is way easier to work with. I would drive 100 miles to use GF gel over Polyshades.

Your kitchen situation sounds a lot like mine was.
Before:

After:

I have posted a way long 'how to' a bunch of times here. Search engine isn't pulling it up, so with apologies for the repetition here's more than you need to know:

It is a very doable project. You just need time, $50 in supplies, and patience. No skill.

My cabinets were frameless, good condition and good layout. But the finish had gone orange and ugly, with the oak graining too busy for me. Cabinet were 18 years old, very poorly finished oak veneered slab doors. Plain with no crevices. They didn't even take the doors off to finish them!!! No stain or finish was even put on the hinge side edges. Bad workmanship.

I looked into changing out cabinets, but that was way too much money, since my layout was OK. Painting didn't seem right because the doors were plain slabs. I considered new doors but that still meant a lot of money. For a few years I tried to figure a way to add molding toward a mission look, but the rounded door edges made that impossible. Then trolling in a kitchen emporium showroom this last year I noticed dark wood slab doors, kind of like mine, but darker. That was the answer.

First I tried Minwax Polyshades. Dicey product. Hard to brush on neatly, then gummy, then seemed to leave a sticky tacky residue. I did a thread on the Woodworking Forum "Evil Polyshades to the Rescue" which elicited a lot of conflicting "expert" opinions and arguments that one must strip to bare wood. (Thread may still be around as that Forum moves slowly.) Long ago when I was young and stupid I properly stripped acres of woodwork in an old Victorian. Never again! Jennifer-in-Clyde (in the same boat) and I stumbled around on that woodworking thread to get to this method.

SHOPPING LIST:
-electric screwdriver or screw drill bits
-mineral spirits to clean the years of gunk off the cabinet
-miracle cloths (optional)
-fine sandpaper
-box-o-disposable gloves from Walgreen’s or the like
-old socks or rags for wiping on coats
-disposable small plastic bowls or plates, and plastic spoons or forks for stirring/dipping (optional)
-General Finishes water base Espresso stain (pretty thick, but not quite a gel) NOTE: This one may not even be a needed step if the Java gets it dark enough.
-General Finishes Java gel stain (poly based)
-General Finishes clear top coat (poly based)
-old sheets or plastic sheeting or newspaper

Rockler woodworking stores are a good place to find the General Finish products. Or some larger hardware stores. Quart of each was more than enough for my 60 doors and drawer fronts and goes for $12-14 at Rockler. There are smaller sizes if your project is small.

SETUP AND PLANNING:
You will need a place to work and leave wet doors to dry overnight - I set up 2 spaces: garage for sanding/cleaning and basement for staining/sealing. Use newspaper or plastic to protect the surface and floor. Figure out how you will prop doors to dry. Plan blocks of 20-30-minutes for sanding/cleaning bundles of, say, 6 doors at a time. Then just 10-minute sessions to wipe on coats. The coats will need to dry for about 24 hours, so figure that each section of the kitchen will be doorless for 4 or 5 days. Divide the job up into manageable chunks.

PREPARATION:
Take off doors and drawer fronts. Try using screw drill bits on an electric drill if you don't have an electric screwdriver. Remove all the hardware. *Mark alike things so you know what goes back where.* Clean the doors thoroughly. Not with TSP but with something pretty strong and scrub well. There's years of grease there.
Sand LIGHTLY, just a scuffing really. Just enough to break the finish and give it some tooth, no more than a minute a door. A miracle cloth is good for getting most of the dust off. Then wipe well with mineral spirits to clean and get the last of the gunk off.

STAINING:
In order, we're gonna put on:
-General Finishes Espresso water based stain (1 coat) - optional
-General Finishes Java gel stain (couple coats)
-General Finishes Clear urethane gel topcoat in satin (couple coats)

But first put on work clothes, tie up your hair and pop your phone into a baggie nearby (you know it will ring). Glove up.
***First do a trial on the back of a door and check if Java coats alone suffice. If the Java alone is to your liking, just skip the Espresso and return it.

Open and stir up the Espresso stain, then spoon some into a plastic bowl. Close the tin so it doesn't get contaminated. Slide a sock over your hand, grab a gob of Espresso and smear it on. Wipe off the excess. Let it dry well - overnight is good. It will lighten as it dries, but then darken again with any other coat or sealer. A second coat might result in a deeper tone at the end - though it seemed like the second coat was just dissolving the first. YMMV.

Repeat with Java gel. This is thicker and poly based (*not water cleanup!*= messier). Color is a rich dark reddish brown. Wait for the second coat to judge if the color is deep enough for you. I wanted a very deep dark color, like melted dark chocolate. So I went pretty heavy on these layers. I did not sand between coats.
Repeat with clear gel topcoat. This will give you the strength you need in a kitchen.

Do the same process with the cabinet sides, face and toe kick area. Might need to divide that up also, and stagger the work: doors/cabinets/doors/etc.

NOTE: The cloth or socks used for the gels are very flammable! Collect and store them in a bucket of water as you go and then dispose of them all properly.

FINISHING AND REASSEMBLY:
I suggest you put the doors back up after one clear coat, then you can check everything over and darken an area with more Java if needed, followed by a clear coat. When it all looks right, go over it all again with another clear gel coat. Or two. (See my follow up notes below). Install your hardware.
The feel of the finish should be wonderful, really smooth and satiny. Color deep and rich - way nicer than that faded, beat 80's oak color.

FINAL THOUGHTS:
Definitely experiment first with the back of a door or drawer front to be sure it is the look you want. Yes, this takes a couple days to coat, dry, recoat, dry, etc but you may discover that the Java alone does the trick and this will save you a LOT of work. Front-end patience is worth it.

This is a pretty easy project to do. Hard to screw it up. The worst is the prep - relative to that, smearing on the coats is cake. I had over 60 pieces (big kitchen) AND island sides and book shelves, etc and I admit I lost steam partway through. Had to push myself through the last of it. But it was worth it. Folks think I got all new cabinets - it looks that good.

Now the finish will not be as durable as factory finish - go at it with a Brillo pad and you WILL abrade it. But it has held up pretty well. And after a year of pretty heavy use, I had just a few nicks, easily repaired.
(6/08 Add: I'm now (18 months later) seeing some wear near the pulls on the most used cabinets. Will add color with Java if it bugs me.)
(9/09 Add: Never did bother to touch up those couple spots. Bugging me a bit more, and I will get to it soon. It is the drinking glass cabinet and the snack cabinet, LOL. And the garbage pull-out. The rest still looks perfect. Lesson: Use an extra coat or 2 of gel on the way frequently used cabinets.)
(12/09 Add: I did finally touch up the spots that were worn. Used just Java to get the color right, then a bunch of top coats. Looks perfect again.)

I added smashing hardware, raised my pass-through, resurfaced the Corian (also simple but messy and tedious) and replaced the DW and sink. It looks gorgeous to me and I really enjoy the space - how it sits all quiet, clean and serene, then gets all crazy with the food and folks du jour. I couldn't be happier, especially that I didn't have to work another year just to pay for the update!!

Link to cabinets in progress: http://photobucket.com/albums/b45/celticm00n/kitchen cosmetic upda te project/kitchen during/

Link to almost finished cabinet pix: http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b45/celticm00n/kitchen cosmetic update project/finished bit by bit/?start=20

Good luck with your project!! And let me know if you try it and how it turns out.

I showed your post to my husband and he was quick to point out the our cabinets have recessed panels and frames where the grain changes direction at the joints. He said that those areas would never look right and I would be fighting a losing battle. But he did love your cabinets.

I’m still willing to give it another try. My only question is will the General Finishes product be that much different from the Minwax gel stain? It just seemed impossible to get an even coat with Minwax stuff, it just smeared all over the place and I had brush marks if I tried to even it out with a brush.

About the only thing I could do was put it very thick, almost like icing on a cake and that just didn’t seem right so I cleaned it all off right away. Maybe I should have let it dry but I kind of panicked at that point. How did your cabinets look after the first coat?

Here is after one coat. Note the uneven color splotches at the bottom.

Much more even color here after two coats. The darker you go, the less color variation is a problem.

Again, the GF gel stain is completely different from the Polyshades. It is thick and silky and creamy (like chocolate pudding almost) and wipes on beautifully.

I really want to do this on my own, I feel like such a naggy b*tch. My husband put in a gorgeous floor and all I do is start complaining about the cabinets. He has always said that our cabinets are "builder grade" junk and the only option is to replace them when we can afford it.

He also said that you have quality cabinets that are worth the effort but ours are not. It’s apples and oranges in his mind. I didn’t want to go "soap opera" on this but I can’t help but get emotional. Sorry.

That would be the same whether you used Polydshades or gel stain.

1 - wipe the stain over the whole frame with circular strokes.
2 - Wipe off the short sections first, then the long ones, following the grain.

The END!

And the General Finishes is way easier to use then Minwax ... texture and drying time are better.

Just tell DH he set the bar high with his beautiful floors and your friends here at GW are steering you straight. It would be tragic to do all this work with a less than ideal product.

Get the General Finishes stuff. It is better. No way your DH could have known that. I didn't - and did the same as he did, going with the Minwax. Just trying to save you both that step.

And if (like in my case) your cabinets come out so good replacing them 4 or 5 years later would be silly, check out St Cecilia granite as a counter. I opted to keep my 20 year old Corian but I gotta say that the St Cecilia looks great with the dark Java cabinets!

My husband is going to return the Polyshades after reading all the negative feedback on the web. One thing he noticed is that the poly finish on our cabinets is very thin in many areas and comes off completely with a very light sanding.

So now he’s thinking it might be best to go ahead and sand down to bare wood and "do it right" although he is concerned that about the oak veneer panels in the middle or our doors not taking stain well.

I don’t want a "grainy" wood look which is why I was drawn to the gel stain. I am sooo tired of oak. It’s a great wood but everyone in this area has homes filled with oak and it is such a tired look in my mind.

After a little more loud discussion he is on board with the gel stain but is convinced that the best finish I can achieve is a "glazed look" because of the stain build-up in the recessed areas and the gel stain will never coat evenly.

Just a little background, our home has been a one big re-hab project since day one and my husband has done so much work on our home and everything he does turns out perfect but he can be a little rigid. If he can’t do a project using the best materials and products, it’s not worth the effort.

I could gold plate our cabinets but he would still replace them when we can afford it because they are "junk". Anyways, I am determined to do this and I will start keeping a photo journal. Thanks again for the advice and, most of all, the inspiration!

Please. Don't go there. It just isn't worth the massive work and toxicity unless the cabinets are something special.

Residual intact old finish really isn't a problem. Just scuff it a bit. Gunk in crevices is a bigger challenge, and that is purely a preparation issue. The GF gel stain will likely work for you as long as 1) you get the surfaces clean and smooth, and 2) you are OK going very dark, e.g. 2-3 coats of Java.

I seriously doubt you will see color differences ("a glazed look") if yours end up as dark as mine.

After a drawer or door back, can you try a test door face first? From the mudroom or an island or desk? Even a trim piece? Something that could be painted -or removed/replaced - if the gel doesn't work out? It'd be good to have DH's concerns resolved.

It is an issue for anything except dark pigment stain that covers more or less like paint, obscuring any grain in the wood.

OK if that is the look you want, bad if you want something that actually looks like stained wood cabinets and not painted cabinets.

good luck.

I hope I am being clear that the gel fix works only with a very dark outcome goal.

I posted many pictures and details on a thread called 'general finishes gel stain update' I think. too tired to look it up. but here's a couple pics.

BEFORE

AFTER

I used Brown Mahogany.

My husband spent just a few minutes sanding the back of one of cabinet doors today and then applied Minwax Mahogany gel stain and wiped it off.

I know I said that I don't like a "grainy" look but the result was much better than what I expected. The grain "popped" and I have to admit it does look much better.

This has been a can of worms, to say the least. Hubby had said that the only options are to strip and refinish or paint and glaze.

But now I have got him interested in gel stains and we are reaching a middle ground. I could see the gears turning in his head while he was working with the gel stain. Kind of like "this stuff has a use".

I wanted to do this on my own but I am relieved that he has taken an interest. He wants to please me and that's all it takes. A girl has to do what a girl has to do. Wink.

PS Go Vikes!

So far my husband has only done two samples. One was on a piece of scrap red oak and that was absolutely beautiful. He put it on with a foam brush and wiped it off about 5 minutes later. It looked like walnut.

Then he did a sample on some old red oak baseboard with a poly finish without any sanding or other preparation. It looked nice but more like paint. He wiped a portion of that off and it looked terrible. But it did dry quickly unlike the Minwax stain.

DH (I’m getting the hang of this place) believes that just a little more sanding followed by a de-glosser could give us the look we want. He said that if we don’t wipe it off, it’s just like paint and stain is not meant to be paint.

I really think we can pull this off. As my DH said, we know what we what it to look like and we (finally!) have the right product now it’s just a matter of developing the technique. If we have to sand to bare wood we will but my DH doesn’t think that will be necessary if we use a de-glosser. I’ll give everyone updated.

PS It was pretty dreary around here after the Vikings lost. And we had 3 cabinet doors drying in our basement and they all looked liked ___. Thanx, Minwax.

PS I live in Frozen Tundra country and could have warned you about Favre. What an idiotic throw. Next comes will he or won't he play next year saga.

My favorite t-shirt in these parts sez: We'll never forget you, Brent.

Hee, hee.

(I was rooting for him though. Gotta love him despite how nuts he makes you.)

However, the color is black not the chocolate color of celticmoon's cabinets. I don't hate it, but it's not what I expected. Could General Finishes have changed the color since celticmoon did her cabinets?

I might have to try another color.

The biggest problem is that my cabinets have recessed veneer panels in the middle and there is no way to wipe off the stain uniformly. It "puddles" at the transition between the recessed panel and the oak frame. This wouldn’t be a problem with "slab" or "raised panel" cabinets so I don’t want to discourage others from trying this method.

And just as my hubby predicted, the veneer panels do not take stain well, very blotchy even when sanded.

I could continue and use the gel stain as paint but why? Better to prime and paint rather than use a stain product as a paint. I could control the color so much better with a paint and the prep would be the same, if not less. I know paint, believe me.

Lesson learned. Three quarts of gel stain, one quart of Polyshades, 15 foam brushes, a half-dozen paint brushes, 2 bags of rags, tons of sandpaper, gloves, liquid sander, TSP, a quart of rub-on poly, two cans of mineral spirits and hours of aggravation.

I think we have all "been there", there just wasn’t an easy solution to my kitchen cabinets but, at least, I tried. So it’s prime and paint just like my husband said, and I will just steel myself when the credit card bill comes in next month and he sees just how much money I wasted. I feel bad, as well.

He’s a good guy and I won’t hear "I told you so" but I really wanted to contribute.

Maybe I am not reading you right, but were you trying to get there with one coat? Wipe off = too light, leave on = too dark. Did you try multiple coats with the excess wiped off?

I feel bad even asking that after all you have been through....

I have tried just about everything but a second coat which I will do today. Right now, I have one coat on the back of a door that I let sit for around ten minutes and then completely wiped off.

It has a "distressed" look (to match the look on my face). It’s not a bad look, just not what I was after.

It would have worked out great if not for those recessed panels in the middle of my cabinet doors. I wish I could explain it better, but when wiping off the gel stain, it gets pushed into that seam. So I end up with a dark ring around that center panel if I try to wipe off any of the gel stain.

My doors are much like tntw' s doors shown in one of the posts above. So I know it can be done, it just requires a little more technique. I will practice some more today. Thank-you for all your help.

I had veneer and recesses... although maybe this is a darker look than what you're going for:

before:

after:

Sorry my pics are so large. I need to learn how to resize!

Now a picture of the back of another door. This has one coat of gel stain wiped on and evened out with a foam brush. I only did the center of the door. You can see the orginal oak color on the frame although it's slightly darker from a previous experiment with Minwax cherrywood gel stain.

So the second door basically has the gel stain "painted" on in a pretty thin coat. The foam brush evened it out and sort of added a faux grain effect. The first door certainly has a "distressed" look and you can see the gel stain "gunked" in the corners.

The second door certainly does look grey/black. Not to add yet another experiment to your project here, but I do recall the salesperson where I bought my gel stain (Rockler store) saying that some people apply the top coat first and then the gel stain, if the wood is too porous.

Just some thoughts. Good luck to you!

But it’s not a deep dark brown or a chocolate color, it’s black. I really wonder if General Finishes has gone darker with this stain. And, of course, my sample does not have a poly topcoat.

When I look at pictures of your cabinets and celticmoon’s cabinets, I see a deep rich brown and my second sample is black. And from what I understand, celticmoon went with two pretty thick coats and I’ve only did one coat but maybe it was too thick.

So I’m a little puzzled. I might try the mahogany color or a mix of the two.

PS That first cabinet gave my husband a good laugh.

I hope they haven't changed anything - I need to gel stain a furniture piece to match my cabs. Yikes!

But even if I did go too thick, how could it be any darker than the actual stain color? Anybody that looked at that sample and was asked to describe the color would say black not dark brown.

(Sorry if I'm asking dumb questions here - just trying to figure this out!)

Anyways, if my husband agrees, I'll start doing all my cabinets. There's 25 doors total and 12 drawers, so it's going to be a lot of work.

I'm sure he'll want to wait until I finish completely the back of my sample door with a topcoat so he can check the durability. But from what I’ve read durability shouldn’t be an issue and touch-ups are easy.

I do like that a little of the old oak finish shows through and I believe it’s a better look than paint even though I am applying like paint, more or less.

Going that dark is a risk but our kitchen is super bright with two south facing windows and a large bay window my husband put in a couple of years ago.

I’ll use some stainless hardware which should create a very contemporary look. Best of all, my husband is excellent with tile and he has some nice Florida Tile "Brun" 18x18 tiles that a friend gave him. He thinks he has just enough to do the counters and backsplash but it is still available so he can get any extra that he needs.

I would prefer granite but that tile is gorgeous. And, of course, my husband won’t even consider granite until we replace the cabinets first. But he could do the tile in a day or two and it’s just sitting there.

As celticmoon said this really only works when going very dark. I didn’t want to go that dark but it’s really not that much of a difference. That was really my problem from the start, trying to get a lighter color. I still might try mixing the java with some mahogany.

I can’t say enough thanks to everyone who helped me get started on this project. Especially celticmoon. Thank-you!

PS I think I’ll leave the back of that first cabinet as is, it will be worth a good laugh in the future.

Casey

Only suggestion I have is to try a couple coats. I wore disposable plastic gloves and slid an old sock on one hand. Scooped out some gel and wiped a thin coat on, removing the excess - but not wiping off after. Way back in this thread I posted pix of how it looked after one coat - not at all an even color. And at that stage, darker at the crevices would be really obvious. But another coat makes a big difference. Even three coats wouldn't be a horror as it only takes a minute to smear on another coat. (I really liked the smearing part). And later the clear gel top coat also impacts the look and the feel, enriches the whole thing. A lot.

Thanks Projectsneverend for posting your pix... helps to see others have done this successfully.

Sherry, I so want this to work out for you...keep us posted. Maybe take a couple days, a couple coats, and see how it looks then after a topcoat?

According to him, it looks tacky and cheap and he’s pretty much fed up with the whole thing at this point.

I’m tempted to throw my can of gel stain at his stupid truck.

I gave him the lioness growl and he retreated to his man-cave downstairs. I suppose we’ll deal with it in the morning. That’s never a good plan.

At least, it looks like me and my man will be sleeping in the same bed tonight. And is there anything better than angry sex? Sorry if this is too racy for garden web.

All I can say is that there is a can of gel stain in the middle of our street. I really wanted to bash that truck of his, but, in the end I just couldn’t do it.

I’ll get my new cabinets. I just have to gauge how psycho I need to go.

I know everyone thinks I am a "drama queen". And maybe I am, but I have to do what I have to do, if that makes any sense.

My husband is rehabbing this beautiful house but he treats the kitchen like an afterthought. He says, I’ll get to it, blah blah…

I had to "jump start" it and I succeeded. Not that I didn’t think celticmoon’s cabinet makeover would work, I really wanted that to succeed. I was so sure that would work for me. I wanted so very bad to stand back and look at my cabinets and say I did that.

But it didn’t, so I went to plan B and it worked. It was a long and very satisfying night and I will get my new cabinets.

Do I feel guilty? Just a little and I am sorry I wasted all this good information from gardenweb members. I really thought it would work but I should have known that my husband would never agree with this kind of "quick fix".

I’m not going to beat myself up over this, I had good intentions. Even as I write this I feel guilty, I wanted new cabinets and I will get them.

I just feel dirty.

I tried to stain the pine before - used paint stripper and sanded for days - but found that it didn't work on the veneer siding on the island and sides of the cabinets and so opted to paint.

Does the gel stain work on the veneer siding or only on the actual wood surfaces? If it does, I'd love to give my cabinets another go to get the color I really want.

Thank so much!

My kitchen has the same Red Oak type cabinets (see my thread here) and we're trying to go dark with them (GF Gel Java). I pretty much followed the instructions in this thread and the results were very good. In fact I got much better sample results than a local contractor who was bidding for the job.

I have one question though. I've put on two coats of the GF Gel Java and it seems that the finish has some streaks to it. It appears that the wood takes more stain in some areas over others and this gives it a slightly uneven finish (when viewed closely). I guess staining is more of an art than a "procedure" ... so any tips on getting an even coat?

Here are some pics. The darker half has been stained by me (no top coat yet)... 2 coats of Java. The other half is what the contractor gave us (horrible job, terrible color and glossy finish!).

How do you add photos?