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Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanship?

Posted by lcskaisgir (My Page) on
Mon, Jan 20, 14 at 13:56

There is a small section of my counter with this mark:

 photo IMG_8933_zps1095fefd.jpg

What is it?? Could it be removed?

This post was edited by lcskaisgir on Wed, Jan 22, 14 at 7:53


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

No pic.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Sorry, I don't know why it's not showing up.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Was it on the stone originally?


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

hollysprings, I wish I had been more observant, I don't know!!


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

I am a fabricator.
that does not look like the stone but rather a stain. the dark stripes on either side of an unstained gap are instructive. is the gap the width of a 2X4 by any chance?

even if the pictured area was in the original slab(s) a good fabricator would typically try to have the affected area end up as waste.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

There is a mark that goes all the way across the counter.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

from the bigger pic I can say it's OBVIOUSLY a stain. there is no way a reputable fabricator would use such a slab for a large piece.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Thank you for your response oldryder:)

If it is a stain, would they be able to come out and do anything to make it look better or am I pretty much stuck with it?


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Either way, I will address it with my fabricator because I am having him come out to remove the backsplash pieces in my window sill anyway...


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Looks like a bleeding 2x4 to me.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

That should NEVER have ended up in a customer's home. If it was on the slab from the beginning (highly likely, but didn't you pick your own slabs?) , the fabricator should have brought it to your attention and you should have picked another slab or they should have fabricated around it if possible to do so. The stone yard should have greatly discounted that slab to the fabricator if they did think that they could use it and cut around the stain.

To fabricate it with that showing and not bring it to your attention before hand shows a real lack of integrity.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

No, you shouldn't be stuck with it. You should have the fabricator replace it with a new slab.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Well, I had two slabs transferred in from another location. When they arrived in the stone yard, I went and looked at them. Well, actually I only saw one of the slabs because the second slab was stacked behind the first slab. The front slab looked good, so I reserved them. It never occurred to me that I needed to look at the other slab as I thought I was really only looking at the pattern and veining and to see if I liked the general look of the stone. I would have never dreamed a slab would have a stain on it. Furthermore, I would have assumed that a fabricator could get a blemish out by sanding or otherwise, but I know NOTHING about fabrication or stones for that matter. Now I am beginning to become angry about this and anticipate an unpleasant situation between the fabricator and myself. And because of the expense of this stone, I can't imagine he will be eager to replace it...


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Be prepared for "we didn't notice it." I don't know how else they can excuse this.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

It might just be a brown marking in stone, I have the same stone and thee are some carmel tones in it..not sure, but may I ask which edge you decided on for the island? it is really beautiful and looks thicker than the perimeter pieces, is it stacked? Can't wait to see your backsplash choice since I haven't done mine yet..coming together awesome! thanks..michelle


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Oh I am anxiously awaiting the excuses. I REALLY hope they can polish it and get it out.

michelle, yes, I do have some carmel tones in mine as well, but this definitely does look out of place and not a part of the stone's natural character. For the island we ended up doing an ogee stacked on a squared edge, but the top of the squared edge has a slight angle to it. It is very thick. Everyone comments on it but I would maybe do 5cm if I had it to do over, not sure. It is definitely a stand out piece. The backsplash is frustrating me! This counter is very difficult to match up, as I'm sure you know.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

From the bigger picture, you can see that it's from a piece of lumber stacked between the stones used as a spacer to keep them apart. Maybe they had them face to back instead of face to face like they should.. Looks like it was a dirty piece of wood, or maybe was contaminated with tar or something, and then everything got rained on a bit and the stain wicked into the marble.

A poultice might remove it, but what the heck, they should have tried that already before fabricating. And if it didn't, they should have informed the customer about the issue and gotten in another slab. No reputable stone supplier would offer to sell a slab with that on it without a discount as well. There is something wrong here overall in this transaction from the stone supplier down through the fabricator.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

I had the same kind of stain on my bathroom marble!!! The installers figured I wouldn't notice, I guess. They came back and poulticed it with some stuff maybe called milagro??? I is almost not noticeable now. Nobody else would ever know.

Nancy


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

so when you say stacked for the island is it 2 slabs on top of eachother or is it mitered( angled to appear thicker)? I really like it!


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Well my fabricator is coming out Monday to look at it. Hopefully he can use a poultice…fingers crossed.

michelle, I guess it's probably called a laminated edge. I tried to type out an explanation of how it's done but I failed miserably. I can tell you that it's supposed to look like a big thick piece of stone, but it really isn't. Essentially it is a 3 cm thick counter and the edges have a 3 cm thick piece glued to the bottom of them all the way around the perimeter. It only goes back about 2 or 3 inches deep, enough that you can't see where it ends. Except the part that overhangs the seating area, it spans the entire underneath of the overhang which is 12 or 14 inches deep.

If we're lucky, someone that knows what they're talking about will chime in with a better explanation! I could always take a picture to show you the edge up close and a view from the under side.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Yes it is a stain of some sort -to me it looks like it is right on the surface. It is always hard to tell detail in pics but it looks like some adhesive or glue was smudged.
Looks like something sticky that they were working with.
Can you feel it where it looks heavier or is it below the surface?
To me the entire top actually looks soiled or dirty-That may just be the pic however.
In my opinion before poulticing the fabricator should try to refinish or re-hone the surface which will probably take the stain or smudge out. 220 grit silicon carbide sandpaper(or lower) followed by diamond abrasives and honing mediums should do the trick . He will have to be knowledgeable enough to match the existing original finish of the surface.
That slab should have never been delivered like that.
I would bet that stain or smudge can be removed by a stone pro with a little bit of basic skill.
What about sealing after they are done?
Are they going to do that for you as well.
You need to make sure they are capable of handling this.
You can always call in a stone refinisher if they cant do it.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

I'm sorry, I hope they fix it! May I ask what that pretty backsplash tile is in your second picture. I think it looks lovely with your top.
Thanks!


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

srosen, you can not feel it at all, it appears to be under the surface. I guess I will see what he has to say about it, he better be capable!! He came highly recommended to me by two different people so I'm hoping all goes well. These counters were installed a week or so before xmas and he came and templated one day and his guys came and installed the perimeter the next. I know he was extremely busy that week as he was trying to finish a lot of customers before leaving for vacation. (Since his guys actually did most of the work, I'm not sure if he actually saw it or not) The counters have a bit of a gray undertone, they are definitely not white, with some carmel tones running through it as well as the gray veining. It doesn't appear dirty in person with the exception of that two foot long stain!!

bosma, funny that you noticed that tile! I have another thread going about choosing a backsplash tile and I believe every single person on GW chose that tile. It is from a place called Tile Daily and is a gray crackle tile. I'm hoping to use it but am waiting to see if it comes in bullnose for some edges I have.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

I'm so sorry this happened to you. That sure looks like a stain to me and totally unacceptable. It is amazing what some people will try to get away with. Hopefully your fabricator will be able to get the stain out! Good luck to you.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Well, fabricator came out today and was unsuccessful at removing the stain. Of course he says he didn't notice it and was quite perplexed about it. He used denatured alcohol to try and remove it. Then he resealed the entire counter with a sealer which he claims he gets from Italy and pays $350/can for. After he left, I looked it up (I saw the can) and you can buy it online for around $80. Now I'm SUPER annoyed and not sure where to go from here...


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Some people will say anything. I guess they don't realize people can easily verify things online these days. Or maybe he thinks you're too dumb to do that, too.

I agree that sure looks like a 2 x 4 was resting against it. Kind of hard to miss, lol.

So why did he seal the stain in? Are you supposed to accept this counter?

Hope he plans to make this right.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Yes, I'm also so curious to hear how you left things and if he expects this to satisfy you? I'd hope not! What a bonehead.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Is sealing a stained countertop with an expensive sealer supposed to make you feel better?


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

I guess he sealed it again because I had asked him what the correct product would be to get out a very subtle stain that a little bit of butter had left on the counter (by my son who didn't wipe it up and it sat there overnight). No one would have ever seen the spot except me. He thought that he could apply another coat of sealer and that would somehow appease me with the bigger issue.

After I googled his supposedly expensive sealer and saw that he lied about that is when I really got annoyed. I had planned on discussing with my husband before I contacted him again about the stain.

I really don't want another slab to be used there….it lies under another piece of the stone used in the window area which would all have to be removed also. I'm really not sure what a good resolution would be or even what to ask for.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

I'm confused how he could not say anything at all about what he plans to do and that he just wiped out a small butter stain and left.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

The best part…maybe it will disappear with time.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

I'm so sorry you are going through this. What about srosen's suggestion to rehone/refinish the top to remove the stain?
Is the fabricator the owner of the business? Do they have more than one fabricator? When I requested to have my seam redone, they sent the "expert".
I'd call & ask them what the next step is. There has to be other options besides denatured alcohol. Let them know you've been researching & suggest rehoning as srosen described.
You could also contact another stone pro for an opinion.
Just curious, what product was the expensive sealer from Italy?


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

The message here for followers is to look at every slab. If not while they are stacked, make sure YOU are there when they lay out the templates. This is what I did after reading all of the posts about slab problems. Do not rely on the fabricator, or your designer, unless the designer is with you. One idea I took from this site: I had the granite polished under the bar area (about 10 inches) because several people had mentioned how rough the stone was on the backside.

I hope you can resolve this issue to your satisfaction. I wonder if taking it back and repolishing it would remove the stain? I opt for replacement.

Karen


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

There is no expensive sealer from Italy. It was a lie. I googled it as soon as he left and found it for as little as $75/liter at a million places online. It is called Tiger Ager. That's what got my blood boiling. I tend to be pretty forgiving. My line of thinking would have been - "well the stain is actually pretty small in real life and he came right out and attempted to remove the stain, I will send a nice email asking if there is anything else he can do." But when I saw that sealer online, I typed up a MUCH firmer email and told him that I am not happy, in a nutshell, and something needs to be done to resolve this to my satisfaction.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

We had a similar problem created by the straps used to transport the stone to the fabricator from the stone supplier. In our case the strap marked the stone.

Your stain could have happened after fabrication during travel to your installation and the straight line represents where the stone was protected by the strap from whatever caused the stain.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

An attempt should have been made to refinish the surface using progressive grits of diamond abrasives and or other abrasives in conjunction with poulticing techniques if needed.
A basic process that anyone who is skilled in working with stone would know.
A telltale sign of someone that doesn't have much knowledge of stone refinishing or restoration is to apply sealer( a miracle in a bottle product)to attempt to correct an issue that has nothing to do with sealing.
Its a last resort and surprisingly its always an incredibly expensive sealer.
The performance listing of an impregnating sealer(cheap or expensive) is to temporarily inhibit the intrusion of staining agents into the surface of the material. Period that's it. It wont solve your issue today ,tomorrow or a year from now.
They will not disappear on their own-don't even think that.
I think that the stain can be removed by using the correct methods.
Have a stone refinisher look at it-do a test and assess the situation.
Make sure you don't pay for this.
Its possible we may know a refinisher in your area.
Let me know if I can help in any way.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

If he comes to your house again either plan on being more forceful or have someone with you who will be. I would have barred him from leaving until it was fixed or he put a plan to fix it in writing. Don't rely on that email, he can just hit delete. You may need to become a PITA to him until resolved to your satisfaction.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Well, the reason he applied the sealer was in response to me asking him about a couple little spots that were caused by me. I was only asking him what product I should use to try getting them out, I was not implying I wanted him to do anything about them at all. After he couldn't get the big stain out, he offered to seal the entire counter again to prohibit any other stains from occurring, not because he thought it would help the big stain. And all the while giving me a speech how he wants his customers to be happy.

I just sent him an email about the whole situation. Hopefully he has a good response. Otherwise, I will be asking you, srosen, if you know any experts in my area! Thank you so much for your genuine concern. It's nice to know there are people out there who agree that I should not keep my mouth shut and accept it.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Debra2008, I hate having to be a PITA! It makes me feel uncomfortable!


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

" there is no way a reputable fabricator would use such a slab for a large piece."

THIS

if they didn't 'see' it, they are BLIND and should not be working that job! I have very bad eyesight and I can plainly see it.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

You don't have to be a jerk. Just stand your ground. State your case (this stone is unacceptable and must be fixed or replaced). Than stand there and wait for a response. Unless he responds with the correct answer, repeat the same sentence. Don't say more than necessary. Have someone else there is need be. Don't back down.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

I'm surprised you say it isn't very large. It looks quite significant in the photos. Completely unacceptable, even if someone's standards aren't very high.

It does appear there's some milder general staining to the right also, mentioned above.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

My fabricator responded by saying that he was not surprised to receive my email. I had stated in my email that I'm sure that the stain bothers him as much as me as it is ultimately a reflection of his work. He stressed the fact that it is not a result of anything they did but was probably there prior to fabrication. He wants a couple days to figure it out. He will be contacting the stone yard to see what they say and also trying to come up with a way to have it removed. He wants me to be satisfied. He finished up the email by saying that he wants me to know what a pleasure it was working with me from beginning to end, lol, yeah right! He neglected to mention anything about the so-called $350 sealer, which I also mentioned in my email by stating that he should stop buying it from Italy because he can buy it online for $75!


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

That piece should not have been used and he knows it! I hope he can come up with a satisfactory solution.
By the way, the sealer is made in Italy and he is probably referring to the retail price for the large containers he purchases (probably 5 liter).
The reason I mention that is my fabricator told me not to buy sealer, but to stop by his shop and he would give me some since he bought it in large quantities and it was very expensive. However, after years and years of owning the family business, they sold it. I will have to buy my own sealer:)


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

I am so sorry this has happened to you! I am a total wimp sometimes when it comes to being firm. My husband is the opposite. NO ONE can argue with him. Somehow he says all the right things and I always wished I could come up with some of his responses. Not sure how your husband is about these things but I would have him or someone who is good at dealing with issues with you when they do return.

Good luck! I hope they correct this issue and soon.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

"Probably there prior to fabrication" & "going to contact stone yard to see what they have to say." It was suggested by the GW pros that the stains were there prior to fabrication. These statements by him should make you angry.
How could they not notice the stains? Which means they fabricated your countertops knowing they were there & hoping you would let it slide. It's concerning that he needs a couple of days to figure it out. Is he consulting with other stone specialists? What can the stone yard do, at this point? If you have to get another pro involved, he should reimburse you.
Not trying to add to your stress. I know what you went through to find these slabs & your countertops and kitchen are beautiful.
Edit: just had a thought, maybe he is checking with the stone yard to see if they have more of your stone available.

This post was edited by romy718 on Wed, Jan 29, 14 at 13:01


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

He called this morning and thinks he knows a way to get the stain out. He's coming next Wednesday. Funny that he didn't know this information yesterday…


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

He's probably on GW reading this thread and learning from the pros. If he shows up and suddenly knows to do what was mentioned above with buffing and poulticing, tell him we're onto him!!! Lol.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

LOL, swfr!


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Don't be so easy-thinking sounds too much like hoping.
Before he comes ask him what his plan is.
Will he be using chemical or mechanical intervention or both.
Will there be dust or splatters. What process will he use.
Will it be a dry process or a wet process.
What chemicals if any will be brought into my home.
Will there be any odor?
If he is successful can he match the finish of the other countertops.
Will he seal the surface when the task is finished.
These are important questions and he should have valid answers.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Yes make sure you know what they are going to do and how much mess it makes! You could end up with your house trashed with fine sanding dust or cabinets and floors splattered.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

I agree you need to know what he is going to do and what if it doesn't work. What is his plan then?


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Yes, srosen, I AM hoping!!! Thank you for your advice. I will definitely have to get back in touch with him regarding those issues. Nothing like having a nice checklist of questions to ask. I couldn't appreciate it more. So thank you!!!


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

I am always disappointed when I see this. I have been in the stone business for over 25 years and I know this material very well. White Macauba is a genuine quartzite and is harder than granite. The only practical way of removing this stain inside your home would be with a poultice repeated multiple times. If a stone can absorb a stain, then the proper use of a good poultice typically will draw most of it out. The problem is, the sealer he applied (an Ager) is actually a color enhancer and unlike a water based sealer, it is much more chemically bonding and permanent, making the poultice process much more difficult, if not unlikely, to remove it.
The problem with re-surfacing is the fact that it is very difficult to re-surface quartzite in a shop, much less your home. Also, there is the risk of cupping from improper sanding of the area around the stain, and the depth of the stain may require too much grinding. Only a company with experience re-surfacing granite on-site should be considered. (There aren't many) Sorry to say, but if the poultice doesn't resolve the problem, the fabricator should take full responsibility and replace the top. This piece should have never been cut or ever left their shop with this obvious blemish.

Here is a link that might be useful: Avanti Marble & Granite Inc


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

I agree with bwerder.
I shouldn't have made it sound easy-it isn't.
The path of least resistance must be followed here.
Starting with a small area to try and determine what the staining agent is.
I agree that using chemical intervention before mechanical is a sounder idea.
If he cant figure it out then the fabricator should replace the top.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

He's going to do a "chemical intervention" on Wednesday. Somehow I don't have a good feeling about it. I've googled and found lots of different poultices and almost want to try it myself. I will refrain. Replacing it would be very inconvenient since this piece is seamed with another at the middle of the sink and the piece in the window area overlaps both this area and the other area (probably doesn't make sense, I'll post a photo). I know, it's not really my problem it's his. But still, it kind of is MY problem.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Don't know if you can tell from this photo (the light from the window makes photos hard to see). There is a vertical piece of counter between the window piece and the main counter which sits on the main counter. And the main counter is seamed in the middle of the sink to boot.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Fabricator came and put a poultice on yesterday. I have to leave it until Saturday.

Question: what poultice would you use if you don't know the nature of the stain? He used Dupont Stonetech oil remover, which is a poultice already mixed up.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

You can rarely go wrong with acetone (DON'T use fingernail polish remover, even though it's mostly acetone.) and corn starch(or pure talcum) mixed to a paste, applied, then covered with plastic. Or, on some stains, hydrogen peroxide and cornstarch. That looks to be a grease stain, so the acetone would be what I'd try first. IF I had a grease stain that *I* caused. With them being the culprits, I wouldn't touch it because you don't want to get into the blame game with them.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

How is your island doing-were they able to remove the stain?


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

We are on round two of having a poultice sit for 2 to 3 days. He says that since it was sealed, they might have to apply a poultice several times to reach the stain. He seems very confident that he can get the stain out. However, he is still using the poultice for oil based stains so not sure how this would work if the stain is not oil based.

In the meantime, I am being patient. I will let him exhaust his stain removal techniques before we move on to the next step.

Oh...and actually it is not on my island, luckily it is in a much less conspicuous spot. Although, I'm sure if it was on the island it would be easier to replace if it comes down to it.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Oh, and I also bought some acetone the other day just in case I might want to try it between fabricator visits (per live_wire_oak). I can't hurt, right?!


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Yes you are being patient-the acetone wont hurt but it is a weaker solvent-good to remove adhesives. You would need to fold up some paper towels(10 ply or so) and lay them down over the stain the wet the paper towels with the acetone and let it sit for a long time. Be carful it doesn't drip onto anything or off the counter.
Its always difficult to trouble shoot from a distance. I don't think it is an oil stain.
I think it is possibly some tannins or just something from an adhesive product that was smudged onto the surface.
Macubus is quite dense so I don't see the stain as deep.
I think it may just be below the surface.
Poulticing is generally for deep set stains.
I would have started testing on a small area first to test for results.
I would have started with a high alkaline cleaner to see if it was oil or grease. Maybe something as simple as comet with bleach may have an effect. If no results I would have tried an adhesive remover and then a paint striper.
A polishing compound used to polish marble may do the trick as well.
There are many products available to try.
I wish I could be of more help but you have to let your fabricator do his thing. I just think a store bought poultice for oil stains generally used by consumers is wasting time.
The main component of that poultice is di-limone an oil and grease remover(a good chemical) If a poultice is used with no result on the first try one should move onto something else.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

I really feel it's a waste of time as well, which is a bit frustrating. However, I can't move on to the next step (slab replacement) or even $ back, until he exhausts his stain removal tactics, however useless they may be! I actually don't really want that part of the counter to be replaced due to it's location in relation to the seam, etc. I really want the stain gone instead!!

Now when you say "adhesive remover", do you mean something like "goof off"? I happen to have some of that! Would that or a paint stripper damage the finish of the counter? What about mineral spirits?


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

There are a lot of adhesive removers-most have the same formulations-they will work on non cured adhesives.
Paint strippers that contain methylene chloride(toxic) should be strong enough to melt or remove cured ones.
If your stain is in the pores it can be stubborn to remove.
Mineral spirits can be purchased at any paint or hardware store it is a solvent.
None of these product should harm your stone but safe handling is very important. Lets see what he does next.
There are all types of products but trying to determine the nature of the stain will dictate what needs to be used.

This post was edited by srosen on Sun, Feb 16, 14 at 7:26


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Maybe I'm NOT being so patient! I guess I'll try and wait a bit before I do anything. I do have mineral spirits, acetone, and paint stripper here though. It will be tough not to give them a try!


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

lcskaisgir - Anxious to hear how this turns out. Not sure where you are located, but if near So Cal, I can recommend someone to remove the stain. I had a stain on my limestone left by painters tape. The tile guys tried every concoction and product out there and could not get it out so we called a tile/marble pro and now you can barely see it.

Before:

From Fireplace Remodel

After:

From Fireplace Remodel


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

BlackChamois, they did a great job on yours! I am in Michigan.

Here is what mine looks like as of today. The fabricator brought in a stain specialist. He put a few different things on it. You can see in the middle of the stain it is starting to break up and fade a little. He is coming back today to put another poultice on it.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Good for you-that looks much better-Looks like you are on the right path now!


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Lisa, I just read all of this post as I wait for the KD to pick up his samples as I eat lunch I hope the rest of the stain can be removed as the counter without the stain is perfect.

Please keep us updated. We are all here for you.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

I hope your keeping a log of all these different poultices. You can be our GW go to girl for stains.
Edit:typo

This post was edited by romy718 on Mon, Feb 24, 14 at 14:28


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Lol, I have kept a few notes!! I tried to get a look at the container of each thing he used and typed it into my phone, for future reference if I ever need it!!

The mark that extends the entire depth of the counter (front to back) that can be seen in one of the previous pictures is gone. But since the main stain hasn't faded as much as he would have liked, he is now using a peroxide poultice with hopes of bleaching it a little. Next step: abrasion.

And thank you Lynn!! :)

This post was edited by lcskaisgir on Mon, Feb 24, 14 at 14:55


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

srosen - hoping you check back in. I always like to be prepared. Is there a general purpose poultice I can buy & have on hand?


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

romy718:

See the link, please. Careful, this stuff is nasty.

Here is a link that might be useful: Poultice


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

romy718
Mangia macchia is a good poultice-it is bleach mixed in a clay medium and works well on organic stains.
Tenax makes a general purpose poultice as well that doesn't smell so bad.
I like to use 30-40%hydrogen peroxide with baby powder or diatomaceous earth.
But there are so many different types for different stains.
What material are you concerned about.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Don't light a match!


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Some of the things my guy has used are Miracle Liquid Poutice (which has 2 different cans, parts A & B), Reinhardt OL killer, an acetone poultice, and a peroxide poultice. There may be more, but those are the only ones I have taken note of!

He thinks my stain is a result of the straps during transportation from the fabricator's shop to my house.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Srosen - I have Imperial Danby sealed with HMK S35, a modified silicone/acrylic base sealer. The installer said they got better protection with this product.
I contacted the distributor to find out what to clean it with. They are also a fabrication shop & said they use their HMK S34 Impregnator Sealer rather than the HMK S35. The S35 is a color enhancing topical sealer. I'm not sure I have as much stain protection with the S35. No issues yet & I do like the finish of the stone.
Sorry for the hijack, lcskaisgir. Your sealer is an ager, also color enhancing. Not sure if our sealers are similar.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

As long as sealers are oleophobic , hydrophobic and applied properly they will provide good protection.
Maintaining them with neutral PH cleaners will help the sealers last longer.
Impregnating sealers are better for natural stone than topicals. They live below the surface. Topical sealers will wear on the surface and require maintenance.
Danby is a great stone-sealing it with an impregnating sealer will help guard against stains.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Wow! Ive been away for a few weeks and I cannot believe you are still having this worked on! I hope he figures this out soon. I think you have been more than patient with all of it!


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

I also hope you are on your way to a resolution.

FYI for anyone who is dealing with the problem Black Chamois had, DuPont oil stain remover removes this type of stain from painter's tape. Sadly my tile setter put painter's tape along the perimeter of our entire mud hall's limestone to adhere RAM board to it. It was left there for 6 months. We moved in, I removed the RAM board, and we have the same stains. I'm removing it slowly myself. It ruins the grout (turns it white when it was first black), and is impossible for me to fully remove from my porous limestone, but it helps. Of course nobody on my job knew not to put painter's tape on natural stone. I could kill them.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

We're getting there!!!!!!


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Looking much better. Thanks for the update.
Also, thanks SRosen for the information. I see some stone maintenance in my future. I may contact you for a reference for a stone specialist in my area (NW suburbs of Chicago).


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

"He thinks my stain is a result of the straps during transportation from the fabricator's shop to my house."

Nope. I'll bet it's a tannin stain from an oak shipping member. It got wet and bled for quite a while, not from a drive from shop to home.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

I tend to agree, Tre. However, your explanation would imply that they saw the stain at the shop and went ahead and fabricated it anyway. Their's gets them off the hook.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Wow, it is looking so much better! You must be so relieved!!


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Ickskaisgir (man, that's hard to type), have they tried the Miracle powder poultice? I've had good results with that stuff on a variety of mystery stains.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

jellytoast, he tried the Miracle liquid poultice (which had two cans w/parts A & B). Not sure if that is the same stuff you're talking about or not. What ended up doing the best was a poultice made of peroxide. Actually IRL you can barely see it at all, and no one would probably ever notice what's left. For some reason the photo really accentuates the tannish coloring.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

No, the other Miracle poultice is a powder that can be mixed with a variety of wet ingredients, depending on the stain. I thought it was more "heavy duty" than the other, though I may be mistaken.

The stain does look much improved! You're right, if we didn't know the story, we wouldn't notice.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

And thank you to all that have commented or given advice. I'm not sure if I would have made the continued effort of pushing the fabricator to do something about it. It actually didn't take much pushing, but being backed by a little knowledge definitely helped me in this situation. :)


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

It's looking really good! Yay!! :)


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Lisa, the stain really is looking less noticeable! Gardenweb's kitchen site is the best!


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

Slabs at times loaded in ocean containers have spent time outside.(wet)
Then loaded in the container braced with wood dunnage for safe transport. The time spent in the container can be up to a month or more.
I think Trebuchet is right on the money.
Peroxide(30-40% volume) is a very effective poultice for organic stains,
It can be a little tricky to work with and you must be mindful of safe handling and use procedures.
Stain removal takes patience, persistence some knowledge and a bit of luck.


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RE: Counter experts, is this a flaw in the stone or in workmanshi

lcskaisgir-
It looks soooo much better! Congratulations on speaking up for yourself (I hate doing that too!)
And thanks for the tile information!


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