I thought it might be helpful if I posted what is existing. Here it is:

Me again... one last thing. The staircase that comes down across from the proposed laundry area is only used by the family so I am not too concerned with the view of the laundry machines. I do have reservations of not having a bigger alcove for them though. Our only other option would be to put them in the basement (not an exciting prospect for me)

I just don't get a great feel for the "sitting at the table" times. With a basement door behind/laundry off to the side and kitchen sink straight on, it seems very "grand central"-and right next to the tracks as well. The alcove to the left of wall ovens would be a great banquette, or off to the right side-using that frig wall for a banquette back to build from. But you've ended up where you are for a reason.Is the table for day to day use? Are you not concerned the counter opposite ovens could be wasted in that it's so far over? Maybe move sink down that way for one small tweak.

herb,
thanks for your response... our table situation is as follows. currently we have a small table in the kitchen - the kids eat their breakfast at it and do homework or a project. We have a dining room - this is where we eat dinner as a family.

for the new kitchen, I would like seating for at least four. I think a table is better in terms of family dinners. The kids like to cook and help me in the kitchen quite a lot. I think the peninsula would be better in terms of them working with me, so I can see the benefits of both - if we went with a table, i think my workspace to do cooking projects with the kids would be fairly limited with the amount of space between the sink and cooktop.

your "grand central" point is a good one. I have a lot of reservations about the laundry set up.

We have a second floor porch off the master bedroom that does not get used AT ALL. Enclosing it and moving the laundry upstairs would be a possibility in this space but would require me to talk DH into doing this sort of work and he is really against a lot of construction (this is part of the reason why we are keeping the chimney that is causing so much trouble for me!). Or as already stated the laundry could go in the basement.

There isn't much I can do about the other traffic.

Re: the alcove where I have the wall ovens: I was figuring that this area could become a log jam so I was thinking of putting things down there that we don't need to access as often such as the fancy plates, wine glasses, serving platters - small appliances that aren't used on a daily basis, baking stuff, bulk storage of dog food, paper towels, etc.

I don't think I would want to create a traffic pattern of the whole family going in and out of there to access a banquette.

We purchased this house about 6 months ago. I didn't think the kitchen floorplan would prove to be as challenging as it is.

Any other thoughts for me Herbflavor? Anyone else, Rhome, LWO?? I would really appreciate your input (and anyone else's!!).

TIA

We removed a defunct two-story chimney in our house, and it really wasn't a big deal. It took a sledgehammer, prybar, and a couple of hours. The roof needed a patch, but that was quick too. Your situation may be more involved, but it may be worth reconsidering removing the chimney if it gives you more flexibility with your layout. Just a thought!

If there is a chance of you going with new units, then I highly recommend stackable front loaders. We have the LG Tromms made for this purpose. It is so easy to move wet clothes up into the dryer and the overall footprint is smaller. It may make the laundry area feel less crowded. I would not move it down to the bsmt as we just moved ours up and love how much easier laundry has gotten....
Your layout looks good overall.

I'm bothered by the vast amount of counter space that seems as if it won't be optimized in terms of use. I don't know how set your window placement is, but I kinda want to move the sink down toward where you show the cooktop with the DW then to it's right. I"d move the cooktop down toward the ovens and add a prep sink. My thinking is that would create a completely separate cooking zone. There would be a prep sink close for baking needs as well. Then the frig by the U could be kept for kids juices/snack/sandwich stuff and they have teh main sink available there. All separate zones. The entire cooking area would be off set from the main thoroughfares of the home but accessible/viewable for family sitting at the peninsula. Make any sense to you?

That outside door seems to be driving some big decisions.

I imagine making the doorway much narrower wouldn't work, as in no other way to bring in and out a fridge when needed, but are there any inches to save there?

How about building a porch outside and putting a pair of French doors opening out onto it, one side opening against the depth of a counter?

I haven't done my homework on this, but how about looking for a weather-tight exterior door that opens out? I was watching a show about hurricane-proofing last year, and they had found that doors opening outward provided much more protection than those opening in, so I assume (!?) there's more attention being paid to developing more such doors.

Is a screen door opening in still the issue? How about a horizontally opening-closing door rolling into a vertical tube mounted in the doorway? We have one onto one of our porches. It may not seem in perfect harmony with the style of the house now but the roller tube mounted in the door frame would be hardly noticeable once everything's in. Ours isn't.

I didn't even look at the door issue but with what rosie said, all my outside doors swing out and I live in hurricane country. We have these magnetic screens that hang from a tension pole across the length of the door so we can keep the door open in the winter and still stay bug free (another issue down here). THey don't flap around because of the magnetic weights.

thank you all for your responses!

chomp - i have had a contractor over and have seriously considered getting someone else over. The major issue with taking it out is that it will mean an entire re-do of the master bedroom which is directly above the kitchen. up there the chimney is tied into a very pretty and period fireplace on one side and on the other is buried into the master bedroom closet. all of this would have to be pulled out - meaning re-do of floors, walls, etc. AND on top of it if there is a structural issue, I don't even know what i'd do. whether or not that could be fully determined up front is questionable. i just get a little worried about going down that road.

dianalo, we just bought the miele w/d upon moving in 6 months ago. i would sell if i could get my money out of them. i did pay under retail for them so this is a possibility. i did talk to DH tonight about turning the porch into a laundry room and he is not on board. says he wants to keep this a one story renovation. i am with you re: the basement laundry. would be difficult to see that as a better option than a slightly cramped situation that i have on the table at this point.

remodelfla - THANK YOU! i love the idea of switching placement for the sink and cooktop. window placement is very flexible. this makes an enormous amount of sense.

rosie, i laid out the door issue to family that were here for xmas (with my masking tape on the floor and all so people could get a sense). half were on the "make a little entry way" team vis a vis the U shaped refrigerator solution. the other half were on the more open concept team. I can see both sides. i am open minded to new solutions and think i am not there yet with this plan. am hoping for an epiphany!

i don't know about the vertical tube door - could you share more info on it? thanks for your input. very much appreciated.

I just re-noticed that you separated the fridge from the freezer and I had forgotten to mention that between reading and posting the first time. I find that I look in one and then the other frequently. I move things in either direction as well. I'd rather see them put near each other and move the ovens out of the way. I could see the ovens moved across the way from where you show them at the end of the run. That would give that counter area some purpose. You could then put a base cab and upper between your fridge and freezer for a great landing spot. FWIW, we are a family of 4 and have a 30" fridge and 30" freezer. It is one of the best parts of the new kitchen. Our sons are young, but we use all the space now. I can only imagine how much more useful it will be when they are teens and eating us out of house and home (shudder).
I would definitely not prefer to block off by the door. It impinges on air and light flow and gives you a corner to work around which is never more efficient. It also may add a seam to your counter and will complicate things. By taking that unit away from the door, you would have more room to add to the peninsula/table.

dianalo... thanks for weighing in on the door issue. and you too rosie! also re: the seperated liebherr's, each has a fridge and freezer so i have access to both, BUT I am incorporating your ideas into a new plan.

what about this? opens the kitchen up. keeps the 48" fridges together (or I could go to a 36", but i did really like the layout of the 48"), allows for a prep sink. i did put the wall oven back on the other side in order to gain a tiny bit of space for the washer and dryer. could gain even more if i eliminated the floor to ceiling cabinet opposite the wall ovens but am thinking if i have this large amount of storage, i won't need my butler's pantry for anything other than mudroom storage which would be good for me.

thoughts?

ps: i realize i need a wider aisle between cooktop and peninsula... lots of fine tuning needed but am thinking this is a better solution than the U shape fridge. will have to investigate more thoroughly door types and options.

Maybe something like this? I just cut and pasted in MSPaint, so its probably not very accurate, but it conveys my idea.

Kode,
thanks! I really like the seating plan. I also like how the back of the bench forms a partition for the door.

I would prefer to have my main work space between the sink and cooktop as this is what I am used to. Your seating idea has me intrigued.... I will play around with it.

mdp

I love the layout you posted Sun, Jan 1, 12 at 23:46 and would only change one thing...swap the refrigerators and the wall ovens. Then you have tons more counterspace near the central area.

This is a very crude cut and paste, and you'll have to check clearances etc, but what about a modified L with island plus galley option? The secondary sink gives you a second prep spot and water source close to the baking area. The oven isn't too far from the cooktop. There's a nice distance from the primary sink and the cooktop and a nice view outside the primary sink and secondary sink. There's an island/table landing area for the fridge/freezer and possibly even a couple of stools for seating. The only thing that is limited would be your dish storage, and if you have enough clearance to add a shallow china storage area on the north wall there, that could be remedied.

{{gwi:1591119}}

Again, just for individual thoughts. Always with apologies for the money involved, but I'm wondering if you would consider a range - perhaps in combination with a small wall oven?

My personal temptations (but something like this is never in my funding level) are to do a 44" or 48" range and a 48" ref leaving the sink run as the only built in cabinets. People in england do what I'm referring to as an appliance counter - they line up their toaster, food processor, mixer, ricecooker, etc. on the same piece of counter - all plugged in and ready to use.

Jeannie, thank you... still thinking the 48" fridge might be taking up too many inches in my space, but for the price it gives me the most cubic footage vs. the alternatives (subzero, miele, thermador, even bosch and KA built in's are all quite a bit more $$). The Liebherr 48" is mid 4K's - so much less than the alternatives.

LWO and Bmore, you both favor an island rather than the peninsula and are both using the brick wall for an appliance rather than seating.. hmmmm... I have the brick exposed on the laundry room side currently and it looks pretty good. i am thinking after the renovation of keeping it au natural. I wonder if this will be possible if considering an appliance in this spot.

thank you... am back at the drawing board, contemplating these suggestions. Will post more layouts and would appreciate any more feedback any one can offer. Am very much trying to keep an open mind to any ideas out there and not get too stuck on one concept.

TIA

Using your Jan 1, 23:46 plan, I would suggest the following changes:

You mentioned that you liked the idea of a table. Because of your children, the tightness of some of the possible configurations, and the flexibility it would give you, this seems like it might be the better choice for now. You could always switch to an island later, once you have lived with the rest of the new kitchen and have tried the table a few feet this way, a few feet that way. It would give you much better flow to the smaller area in the lower left to have the table in the open space between the fridge/freezer and the brick wall, which you could leave in its natural form with no appliances or cabinets on it, and space to walk between the brick wall and the table. Or make a ~5' x 3' island now in the same location and with space between it and the brick wall.

I'd want the microwave and a prep sink just to the right of the fridge, and either eliminate the window there, or put a narrow casement, a decorative/stained glass window, or a narrower window that looks like the other two that you mentioned were special, to the right of the MW.

Put a super Susan in the corner, then switch the sink and the range. This location would put the range where it would be least restrictive in your aisle space since it sticks out the farthest of any appliance, and seeing a beautiful backsplash as you come in from the main part of the house would be prettier than the sink and dirty dishes!

Shift the double window to the left, so that the right window is between the range and the sink, and the left window is over the sink. Put the DW to the left of the sink out of the way of the main kitchen traffic, and dish cupboards between the sink and where you have the ovens. Keep the storage cabinets opposite the ovens for the things you previously listed. Would it make sense to have a window seat under the pretty window in this quiet out-of-the-way area?

This layout would make it easy for kids/spouse/guests to access fridge/MW/large prep/bar sink, while others were at the range or main sink. It would give you a logical place to put the dishes as they come out of the DW. There would be good circulation to all parts of the kitchen around the table/island and into the small area that I think of as being sort of an alcove without a door, due to the distance between the counter and the fp brick wall.

Anne

Whoa!

Seems to me that this design is surging ahead with compromises before we know that compromises are necessary. Taking out walls and removing chimneys is expensive stuff. Is it really necessary, or can the homeowner's objectives be accomplished without structural modifications?

When we design a kitchen, the first question is always "can we do this within the existing floor plan". Moving walls takes away some of the dollars that can be used for the kitchen proper, so why spend the money if you don't have to.

This kitchen has doors to other places, and if a kitchen has more than one door, then part of the floorspace has got to be used as a walk aisle. You don't want the walk aisle to traverse the kitchen proper if it can be avoided. If it does, then people working in the kitchen are interfered with by people just passing through on their way to some place else.

So first thing to do is figure out the walk aisle and subtract it from the space available for the kitchen. Here is the floor plan with that done:

mamadadapaige, on your floor plan there were only two dimensions given. We need a lot more measurement information. To see how to measure a kitchen like the pros do, take a look at How to Measure Your Kitchen.

Once you have posted the floor plan with all the dimensions required, we can proceed to see what we can do with the space. You should also look at The 31 Kitchen Design Rules to see what sort of clearance needs to be between objects and other essential ergonomic information required to design a workable kitchen.

answering posts in reverse order.

xoldtimecarpenter, thank you for taking the time to ask these questions... I have all the dimensions, I just didn't put them on the plan, but can certainly do that and I think you are right that it would be more helpful. On the other plans, each little square is 6" if that helps at all.

I have answered some of the questions on your plan, and here are answers to the other questions as long as info on the butler's pantry including the "major issue" I have highlighted on your plan.

* The range and cooktop are electric, however, there is gas in the house (heating system) and we plan to have a gas cooktop with seperate electric wall ovens. My desire to have the seperate wall ovens combined with my desire to have seating for at least four in the kitchen are the major reasons for taking down the wall and expanding the space into the much too big utility area (especially given my wish list for the kitchen).

* Below the kitchen is an open full basement with easy access to plumbing, electrical, etc. One "issue" is the gigantic beehive oven which might limit plumbing for the w/d.

* On my plan, but not on your plan, are two small wall projections in the utility room - this 2' section is cantilevered out from the main part of the house - this is why there is a bump out from the exterior wall that you asked about. Obviously the plumbing can't go here... there is a little bit of space in the basement between the exterior wall of the house and the beehive oven, but it is tight... I really need to get a plumber over here to make sure this is going to be feasible.

* The reason the entry doorway cannot go into the butler's pantry is twofold. First there is a sink on the exterior wall under a window and we are planning to keep it there. It has been a very useful sink. The kids get their water here, brush their teeth here on the fly before school, wash their hands, etc. Second, the passageway is very tight here and not too much can be done about that which leads me to my next point:

* the "major issue" circled in green that I am posting below. Do you see the basement stairs going down? Part of their headspace is covered by a false panel in the butler's pantry. This cabinet is literally right up against the casing so it creates a claustrophic feeling. I will be able to fix this to a degree and have a plan, but there is only so much that can be done. Very funky situation. I think it is quite evident that the back stairwell going up and basement going down weren't the original configuration. I believe they were altered at some point to allow for a sizable master bathroom upstairs.

* You asked if "this is the walkway to the rest of the house". Yes, it is. On the other side of the butler's pantry is a dining room where we eat dinner. I do want to be able to eat breakfast and casual quick meals in the kitchen hence the need for decent seating (I do not want four of us lined up in a row... will need to be L shaped seating at a minimum).

Regarding the other points, thanks for posting the 31 guidelines. I am aware of them and following them - wrt to aisles spaces I am on the generous side since we are a house with two kids and two dogs and lots of activity.

I think the first and most obvious thing is to move that entry door down - does amazing things for the "walkline" issue. Secondly, I want a much better view to my back yard (this is on the other side of the current sink wall). Currently we have one small window that is too high for me to really see out of. I want to be able to keep my eye on the kids and dogs while they are outside and also let more light in.

Above is a link to a previous thread where I tried a U shaped plan and an L with an island. both of these would not require taking down that wall but they come with compromises I'd rather not live with considering that any way you slice it this is going to be an expensive project.

The L with island was not great seating and a compressed working area requiring a range.

The U would allow for all major appliances including wall ovens, but the seating in the center of the U was very small. I'd probably go for the U before the L but in the end I like having the extra utility room space in the kitchen rather than the utility room. I will need to move the wall to give the laundry machines more space... In mulling it over I just will not be able to live with those machines 3' away from the bottom of the stairs. This means the wall oven will have to go on the back wall of the house (if I go with the plan that has the wall oven in the alcove) which is another compromise but I think a better one than an extremely cramped laundry area/back hallway.

Let me know what you think now that I have provided this info. As stated I really don't think I can order cabinetry or move forward without getting a plumber over here.

Anne,
thank you for these suggestions. I intend to put them on the plan and see how it works. WRT to the cooktop and sink flip flopping I can see both sides of this. On the one hand if the sink is closer to the chimney, there is less bulk down here and this is what I had been originally thinking. On the other hand, with the cooktop down by the chimney, this allows easy emptying of every day dishes into cabinetry that could be placed nearer to the refrigerator. I have been thinking that all of that space in the alcove would be used for less often needed items so that I am not in and out of there for everyday glasses and dishes (and the kids aren't in and out of there all the time). I don't want to create a bottleneck. Also, if you figure that most days I will use the burners closer to the sink I won't be standing directly in front of the cooktop for as long a period of time as I would be in front of the sink so it might be a compromise worth making to have that space impinged just slightly more with the cooktop vs. the sink. (does that make sense??). BUT your point about the view from the dining room is a good one. I have been contemplating this. It is a straight shot view from the front of the house (living room) through the dining room and into the kitchen.

Your point about a table giving me more flexibility is a good one. I have been back and forth with island vs. peninsula vs. table. LWO and bmore suggested an island but when I laid it out, i think my clearances aren't there to get seating for at least four. I thinking leaving walking space around an island is just more space than I have to give. Either a table that lives against the brick wall and moves out when needed or a peninsula against the brick wall seem to make more sense. Or pulling off of LWO's idea, refrigerators on the brick wall and peninsula coming off of the wall by the door (although I think it would be awkward for seated diners to have the door opening up behind them. I'd be afraid of getting whacked in the back by the door while treating to sit and eat).

Thinking, thinking, thinking about this seemingly ALL the time. Very much appreciate your detailed thoughts on this. Any others?

The problem I see with having a peninsula is that there would only be one entry into the kitchen. I've lived in houses with both good and bad traffic flow, and have learned to dislike K, LR, & DRs having only one door/entrance. If the end of the peninsula is opposite the fridge (which often sees lots of activity--especially with teenagers), you could end up with The Mother of All Bottlenecks! If you have an island or table, people could go around the other end.

Anne

I see what you are saying. i think I will create a new post related to this and see what I learn.

It is a compromise of more space/seating/utility vs. less impediment to the floorspace. So many compromises!!

Not sure if anyone is still following this but I thought some pictures of the house/kitchen might help.

Here is the kitchen - out of view to the left is the radiator but otherwise you are seeing all the cabinets. Notice how tight the space is to the right of the wall ovens which leads to the W/D and back staircase:

Here is the covered porch where we enter... so we are proposing the door (which is barely visible on the left moves down to where the window on the left is). The window on the right is above the sink in the butler's pantry

Here is a front/side pic of the house. Down on the side you will see a section that is cantilevered out - the two windows on the bottom are the windows that are in the utility room.

Here is a pic of one side of the butler's pantry. We plan to replace the sink with something much smaller and put in cabinetry with drawers which will work much better for us. Across from this sink are cabinets which have the issue of hiding the head space for the basement stairs so this will be tricky. We hope to turn this into a mudroom of sorts with coat storage and a place for the kids backpacks, bike helmets, mittens, etc.

Mamapaige- I saw this picture and it reminded me of your kitchen, or at least, what I imagine your kitchen will look like, when you're done. Am I even close? Do you like this style?
{{gwi:1578620}}From Kitchen plans

I played with another layout putting a "seating booth" to the left at the bottom by the window, but looking at the other with the dimensions, I don't think you have enough room for that. The laundry could go to the basement and the utility area could become a banquetted breakfast area and pantry, but that probably actually decreases the home's functionality instead of increasing it.

You are struggling to put 20 pounds of sand in a 10 pound sack. :) Something will have to give. :( If you are using your DR, then the seating would be the first off of my list. The second would be 48" of cold storage. A secondary fridge and freezer in the basement isn't ideal, but thousands of people do it all the time. The hardest truth of all is that you can't have it all. Even folks who build new make tradeoffs.

Ideally though, that chimney would go. I would do the demolition myself, and in fact, have done so. It's just sweaty muscle work for the most part and maybe some jacks with a few support beams if there is any structural component (There was in mine and a header had to be created). If I had to do the kitchen in phases and reuse the components that were there and some Habitat ReStore stuff for now, I'd do it. The heck with going to the gym for lifting weights! Lifting bricks will make for strong muscles and a much improved layout potential. That chimney demo would be started NOW!

You can keep the mantle above in the bedroom, but remove the guts. If you want to put in a gas fireplace instead, that could be done as all that really requires is a drywall chase and metal exit flue.

If you went back to a 36" refrigerator (with auxiliary elsewhere) and chose a 36" range (maybe add a second oven under counter) and gave up having seating in the kitchen, your could utilize the space that is there much better. The kitchen would work well as a kitchen, and have room for everything. Limitations and compromises are not always bad. This could be a very attractive and functional kitchen. And it would feel spacious, not cramped, which is unfortunately, the feeling that all of the other layouts give. They feel cramped and forced. And they are.

{{gwi:1591129}}

It's not that peninsulas are bad--I have one (actually two--one is in the lower level kitchen in a galley/one entrance kitchen which only a couple of people use), as well as an island, and each has its plusses. In your plan it's both because of the large double fridge/freezer at the end of the peninsula and the alcove back to the lower left that made me say that a peninsula could be a huge bottleneck in a one-entrance kitchen. If you leave a large enough aisle, and no one sits at the end opposite the fridge very often, a peninsula could work. But it still seems to me that you could get as much use/function out of an island and create better traffic flow. I don't mean to belabor this, but you seem to be going in so many directions at once that I just wanted to explain it a little more. Obviously, you need to decide what's best for your situation.

It sounds like you are going to have a small sink in the butler's pantry/mudroom. If that's the case, why would you need a prep sink in the peninsula/island, since the large sink would be in the same counter run and so close to the cooktop? Also, having a sink, prep or main, near the MW is usually a good idea, because a lot of what goes into the MW (warming up leftovers, etc.) can make a mess that needs to be cleaned fairly soon, or you need water for something. But maybe this is another post to get others' opinions!

Anne

LL.. that sink is so pretty below the windows. the plan I am currently pursuing (although I do agree with LWO that I am trying to put 20 pounds of sand in a 10 pound bag. The plan is not your standard plan for sure) would hopefully have about 6" of space between the edge of the cabinet to the corner and the sink would be in a 36" sink base.

LWO... thank you for helping me tackle this. I am going to talk to DH about removing the chimney. It is the kind of thing I would very much enjoy doing myself. I do worry about running into structural issues and being in over my head. We did have a contractor come in and the price was reasonable for removal ($1500) but the cost to re-do the master bedroom closets along with the disruption and possible domino effect of putting in beams, etc. are my reservations.

In thinking through the compromises I would be willing to make, I would go to a 30" rangetop. I would also go to a 36" cooktop rather than the rangetop that projects into the space by a few inches. This would be one space saving option - I rarely need more than 2 burners at once - I only wanted the 36" for the griddle because I had one in my last house and used it all the time and loved it so much. BUT I would give up on that without much ado.

The MW could go on a countertop to the right of the wall ovens. No problem.. I rarely MW anything - mostly just use it to re-heat my coffee.

I would easily compromise to a 36" refrigerator or even a 30" as we could put another one in the basement if we felt we needed it for overflow, BUT my issue with this is the size of the doors swinging into the room. I thought the 36" Liebherr french door would solve this but I was disappointed in the cubic footage in the fridge. But a compromise on the fridge issue would be quite doable.

The more I have gotten into this the more it would be tough for me to compromise on the cooktop with seperate wall ovens. I didn't have that in the last house and really wished I did. I have it now and even though the Maytag are ancient and only 24" I like not having to bend over and being able to just peer in to see what's going on.

The other thing is seating in the kitchen. I just can't give up on that. We do have the dining room close by and it is not overly formal so we tend to eat in there for our dinners, but in the mornings with the kids and getting ready for school, we keep the ball rolling by being in the kitchen. I am making them lunch while feeding them breakfast and getting their backpacks together and getting them dressed (usually from the stack of clothes on top of the laundry machine) and having them brush their teeth (in the butler's pantry).

Anne, I reworked the plan a little... am posting below. 55" inches from end of island to fridge. Could widen it a little. could also have stool on the end, just a small one tucked under. I really don't need to prep sink. Would be nice but totally not necessary... I use my MW sometimes once per day but more often every other day so not sure if I would want it in the peninsula - seems to valuable to give up on that prime location. If you think of anything else, please let me know. Here is the latest plan (posted on the peninsula vs. island thread)

Mamapaige- I'm glad you like the sink! I think your new plan looks wonderful :)

I like the prep sink and the peninsula...which now gives you plenty of seating and prep space. The only think I would change, is to put the storage back, across from the ovens, the way you had it, in your earlier plan. Everything else looks great!

Your plan is really developing nicely as you sort through all of the various options. It sounds like you really prefer the peninsula, and it will be fine with the size and aisle you have. You'll probably be too busy to sit down in the mornings anyway! :o) To determine the depth of the counter top overhang, measure how far your knees go under the table when you are sitting while eating, and figure it from there--should be about 12-15". Unless the stools are stationary, the posts you are showing as supports might get sort of banged up over time.

I hadn't intended to suggest that the MW should be on the peninsula, but rather that the prep sink should move to one of the base cabinets along the wall and have the MW near it there. Having your MW sit on the counter back toward the storage/pantry area will be fine; it doesn't always have to be built in.

On your other thread you indicated that you are still considering tearing out the chimney. Since you still would want the laundry in this area, how would the kitchen layout be different from what you've been showing if the chimney were gone, other than gaining the space? Maybe it's ok to leave it, considering how hesitant you & your DH are to deal with the upstairs.

How long before work begins on the kitchen? Will you have custom cabinets, semi-custom, etc.? If you're feeling comfortable and fairly well set with the peninsula and fridge/freezer locations, it might be time to start figuring out where you want a trash pullout, the DW, the every day dishes, pots & pans, baking dishes, etc. This will help you decide if you want a Super Susan, what size drawers, where to put the main sink and maybe a prep sink, where to put the cooktop. If you haven't already, start making a list of everything that will need a place in the kitchen, and then start thinking what kind of cabinet in what location would work best for you.

Since you really loved the grill feature on your previous cooktop, you wouldn't have to give it up, since you'd have sufficient counter space with the peninsula and the counter going into the storage area.

BTW, your house is beautiful!!!

Anne

I can understand your need to recess your washer/dryer a bit, as I lived with a space in which I got hit by a door regularly. Plus, you need at least some space to sort without completely blocking a walkway.

The space left behind the laundry could be a nice place for a Julia Child-like peg board storage area. It's a huge, lovely wall storage opportunity that could hold a lot!