Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
scaredykat

Can I squeeze in an 18" dishwasher?

Krista Garcia
9 years ago

I think I already know the answer ("no") but I'm trying to determine if there is any way to fit an 18" dishwasher on the right of this sink in a new-to-me kitchen. Unfortunately, the cabinet that's already there is only 17" wide. I was thinking it could be possible to install a new base structure that's 1"-1.5" wider but that would cut into the space around the refrigerator. As it stands, there is 3.5" of extra space around the fridge but I'm planning to buy a new 24" refrigerator (and ideally, taller) that will be one inch wider than this one and that will already violate the 3" minimum air circulation rule. Would it be completely egregious to have a dishwasher stick out one inch past the window?

In a perfect world I could move the refrigerator altogether and have a full-sized dishwasher and larger sink on this wall, but there is no available floor space (I can post a photo of the full kitchen, if that helps visualize it) without completely ripping out the cabinets and starting from scratch, which I'm not in the position to do right now. (I'm planning on having them painted and changing the hardware).

I ultimately plan on replacing the counters and backsplash and buying new appliances but wanted to figured out if installing a dishwasher was structurally possible in this current configuration first.

Comments (20)

  • live_wire_oak
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You need the Ikea Grundtal wall mount dish drying rack. And a few of the other accessories that can stretch your space. And to keep saving for a more extensive redo later. You might possibly do a portable DW that would roll away, but there is no electrical outlet on your wall there to serve it. Which is a code violation, BTW.

  • lee676
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    How wide is the sink cabinet? If wider than 24", you could buy a cheap 24" cabinet for the sink, perhaps one that wouldn't require a new countertop and sink placement, creating more space for the DW. Some "portable" 18"w dishwashers include a countertop and are finished on the sides, but the plumbing can be permanently installed. Undercounter dishwashers also are not built into cabinets but you'll need some sort of panel to cover the exposed right side. And yes, where's the electricity going to come from? (a dishwasher should have a dedicated circuit). 17"w is sure an odd size BTW, stock cabinets in the US are almost always 15" or 18" wide. There are also small single-rack countertop dishwashers available, though that would leave you with no countertop space near the sink.

  • Krista Garcia
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This whole kitchen is full of oddly sized things. The size isn't unusual for NYC (I've had much smaller kitchens) but all the dimensions are slightly off. Some of the counters are 25" deep while others are 21". The sink cabinet is 26" wide, so hypothetically there is some wiggle room there.

    Sadly, even the portable dishwasher idea is un-doable because there is zero free floor space except right in front of the oven door. What's also odd is that there is a cut out across from the sink and I have no idea what was meant to go there.

  • lee676
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow what an inefficient layout - there's really plenty of space for everything if it were used well. I'd have used a 24"w separate cooktop and oven (a 27"w oven is someone insists), and just what is that empty space for? The DW could go there if you could get plumbing across the room. If not, can you remove those two isolated drawers, move the cabinet on the lower right to where the empty space is now, chop off the end of the countertop, and move the fridge to the space vacated by the cabinet in the lower right corner of the picture? Then you'd have plenty of space for a 24"w dishwasher to the left of the sink.

  • lyfia
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    How wide and deep is the cutout on the other side? Is there any plumbing potentially in that wall?

    Would you be able to move the fridge across the aisle? Just trying to think of other options.

  • smiling
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Granted, this suggestion is far from ideal, but might work as a stopgap until you can make the bigger changes you plan for later: Anyway, how about turning a dishwasher 90 degrees, so that the door opens toward the oven. Again, I do know that it would be less efficient than the standard set-up, but you might get the functionality of a DW for now. You could use the existing door and drawer front to make a side panel for the DW space, but cut into the end panel to make room for an 18" DW. You might even be able to squeeze a 24 inch DW in there if you could support the counter with the end panel made from the existing door and drawer front. It all depends whether you have electric service under the sink, or can run a new circuit from the fridge area. Of course, you could only load and unload the DW from one side (as it appears there is a window left of the oven and right of the sink space), but you might decide that will have to do for now.

  • Krista Garcia
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My first thought was also to remove cabinets and put the refrigerator on the opposite side. That's when I realized that right-hand row is only 21" deep (the rest of the counters are 25") so the refrigerator would stick out like a sore thumb even if counter-depth.

    I'm pretty sure there isn't any plumbing on the wall with the cut-out (it butts against my neighbor's hallway) but it is exactly 30" wide, which makes me wonder if it wasn't for a range. Though that would end up sticking out as much as a fridge.

    Installing the dishwasher sideways never would've occurred to me, and it's not a totally crazy idea.

    Realistically, I should probably just stick with cosmetic upgrades for now. This is the first property I've owned so I'm excited about the possibilities but a little restricted by budget at the moment.

  • lee676
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh how one of those in-countertop sink/dishwashers would be perfect here. Unfortunately I don't think they're made anymore. The last one was the Kitchenaid Briva from about 5 years ago. You could look for one on eBay or craigslist, they (or older ones from other manufacturers) show up occasionally, often for cheap.

    {{gwi:2136112}}
    {{gwi:2136113}}

  • practigal
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    They probably didn't sell enough Brivas, but for those of us who have never seen one before ...well, I find it very interesting... why not use a dish drawer? You could put the entire drawer at any height you want including under that window.

  • Krista Garcia
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is the first I've heard of an in-sink dishwasher. That's exactly what I need, especially since I currently live alone and don't generate a ton of dirty dishes (it used to take me a week to fill up a standard size dishwasher, which defeated the purpose of having one). Of course, Kitchenaid had to discontinue it!

    I also just discovered that GE makes under-the-sink dishwashers, which might work too.

  • lyfia
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think you can make it work. Be careful with the fridge you buy and what clearance it needs and you can make it work. The 18" dw measures a tad less than 18 so you could attach it to the countertop and have a thin cover panel at the end.

    The cut out looks like it could have been intended as a desk area with a stool to pull out and sit there.

  • lee676
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Apparently the Kitchenaid sink-style dishwasher was made until just a few years ago - there *must* be some still in the pipeline somewhere, I see some still sold as new and uninstalled recently. It's still on their website too - wow, it could complete a cycle in 30 minutes, or 18 minutes with the optional heater attachment. There were two sizes available, the one shown above (36" total with of sink and DW) and a 48"w version with a larger sink. They were expensive when new and that limited sales to the apartment/condo dwellers likely to want one. It's an old idea that keeps getting revived - here's a similar dishwasher from General Electric made in the late '40s and '50s:

    Another approach would be a countertop dishwasher, but building a niche for it underneath the countertop adjacent to the sink, in the manner frequently done for microwave ovens. These dishwashers have a single rack that rolls out and look like this:
    {{gwi:2136114}}
    {{gwi:2136115}}

    That's sitting on the countertop, with an inlet hose that can attach to the faucet. But you can also more permanently attach the plumbing as with a standard built-in dishwasher, and place it in the cabinet like the microwave is in this photo:
    {{gwi:2136116}}

    As for the GE undersink dishwasher, I didn't realize they still made those. I've never liked them. They look like a full size machine until you open the door. The bottom rack is reasonably normal, but the top one has very short clearance, especially toward the back. Here's the inside viewed from the front:
    {{gwi:2136117}}

    Notice that the tub starts several inches below the top of the machine. That's to allow clearance for the sink above. Also notice there's only one row of small plates in it, toward the front of the rack. That's because the entire rear half of the top rack is only about 2" tall because there needs to be room for the drain plumbing. It's easier to see viewed from the side in this parts diagram - look at the tub shape:

    These need to be used with fairly shallow sinks - about 5-1/2" deep max - with the drain at the back. And there isn't space for a disposer above the dishwasher - the only way to use one is to have a sink that overhangs the dishwasher on one side and make sure the drain is on that side. GE hasn't updated this dishwasher to a modern "tall tub" design where the door opens from just off the floor for maximum height inside; instead it wastes about 8" of height at the bottom for a fixed panel in a machine that needs all the interior height it can get. And the ergonomics of loading a dishwasher from underneath the sink aren't great. In all, these are a dud IMO.

    Like others here I thought of the Fisher & Paykel dish drawers that are as little as 16" height and fit into a cabinet with room for a drawer above, below, or both. But these are 24" wide and wouldn't fit in the cabinet next to the sink. If building or renovating, it's conceivable there would be room for one below the sink at the bottom of the cabinet, but as is it's likely the plumbing would get in the way of the dishdrawer installed that way.

  • Jillius
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Would a mini fridge fit in the empty cut-out? Then you could put a dishwasher where the current fridge is and have more room to work on either side of the sink.

    Would a mini fridge and a dishwasher and a bit more counter space on top of the dishwasher be an improvement to you over a bigger fridge and no dishwasher?

  • lee676
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Even a smallish full-sized fridge would fit if the countertop and drawers were removed from that section, in 24 to 29" widths. Although these would extend about 24 to 25" from the wall and a few inches beyond the shallow countertops there, that is no worse than commonplace non-counter-depth freestanding fridges commonly placed between 24"d cabinets.

  • DIY2Much2Do
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kristag, what is the exact total wall dimension you have to work with - from the wall at the left of the fridge to edge of the window? And what refrigerator are you planning to get?

  • Krista Garcia
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I was researching the countertop dishwashers. But they are 21" wide and that's exactly the same amount of space from the rim of the sink to the edge of the counter. It could work, though it'd be pretty bulky.

    I have 71" from the wall to the window. The path of least resistance would be buying an inexpensive, similarly sized refrigerator like the 10.0 cu. ft. Frigidaire FFTR1022Q . I was trying to avoid the top freezer style, though, and wanted something a little sleeker. If I remove the upper cabinet, I could get something taller like the LG LBN10551PV (which I had in my last apt and was fine) a similar Summit, or on the higher end a Liebherr CS1360.

    What I omitted from my original post was that I will need coop approval to install a dishwasher and my building is extremely old-fashioned. I already know I will meet resistance (despite the equally old neighboring buildings allowing them) so I am assessing my options before formally opening this can of worms...

    I've set up eBay and Craigslist alerts on the in-sink model--I really like that idea, plus it probably wouldn't get me into any trouble since it's small and doesn't look like a standard dishwasher.

  • Olychick
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    can you remove the drawers above the existing cut-out and slide a portable in there for storage and pull it out to hook it up and use it?

  • lee676
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    For reference, the last Kitchenaid in-sink dishwasher sold for $399 on eBay on Oct. 29. Apparently new since it's a stock photo.

    Here is a link that might be useful: KitchenAid in-sink dishwasher

  • DIY2Much2Do
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    With 71" to work with, I think the key is getting a 24" sink cabinet. I looked at a few of the refrigerators, and I don't think there is any magic 3" ventilation rule. The LG LBN10551 recommends 2" on each side, and is 23 3/8" wide. If you used that with a 24" sink cabinet, you could go with a regular 18" dishwasher, increasing you options.

    A Liebherr like the CS120X can fit in even less horizontal space (23 7/8" width with no side space required) and ventilates at the top and bottom only.

    Here is a link that might be useful: LG Refrigerator Spec Sheet

    This post was edited by DIY2Much2Do on Tue, Jan 27, 15 at 12:45

  • lee676
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Are you anywhere near KC?
    http://kansascity.craigslist.org/app/4873605135.html
    May be willing to ship; just make sure he packs it carefully. You can bargain.

    There are several brands that make 24"w, 24"d, but very tall refrigerators (75"-80") with a bottom freezer. (Blomberg makes a similarly-configured 27" fridge too). I like the LG and its low price; it's a shame they don't sell the taller version of this one in the States (it is available in Canada). F&P makes some that are a few inches deeper. I just saw the Bosch 24"w fridge for the first time - didn't know they sold them in the States. It's expensive but not Liebherr expensive. But with an in-sink dishwasher you can keep the fridge you already have.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Narrow bottom-freezer fridges