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aloha2009

What Is The Real Question Being Asked To 'What is Timeless'

aloha2009
12 years ago

I see this question so often on this forum, and I wish I could shout that NOTHING is timeless, except having a range, frig, and sink. The rest changes, changes, and changes.

Is it the lack of years of seeing trends come and go that prompts this question?

Is it purchasing expensive materials that helps ease the pain thinking that it is "timeless"?

White appliances have been around for DECADES. If someone were to call that timeless today, most everyone would jump on that since the mass marketing of SS has been around around a decade now.

I read here about the timelessness of stone counters when they've been evolving the the past two decades from tiles to slabs. It's laminate and especially wood & marble that have seem to have stood the test of time of DECADES. Yes, that laminate is timeless!

Cabinet doors change all the time. The stains get lighter, darker, lighter, darker. The style changes too. Who out there has cabinets that you still swoon over after 20 years?

I'm wondering who has a kitchen more then 15 years old, that hasn't replaced, a handle, faucet, lighting, counters or appliances, not because they broke, but they were tired of them.

Spend what you want but please know that there is a strong likelihood you'll be shopping around for something new in 15 years (likely less) for something to freshen up the kitchen.

Timelessness in a kitchen IMHO is a joke.

Comments (113)

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I did my last kitchen nine years ago and I see virtually identical kitchens done today. I was ahead of my time with my cherry wood countertops, and the only thing that I think is "out" in my old kitchen is the hardware (easy) and the tile (and even that is not very different from something someone posted yesterday as an example of timeless!).

    So I think 10-15 years is a worthwhile goal, timeless is not going to happen.

    Marcolo does a great job of delineating all the myriad details that we don't even really get to choose, because of the pre-editing problem, i.e. the narrow choices we face when we go to purchase things. To those who still think marble is timeless, I will add ogee vs eased edges as a "tell".

    The timeless question has come up a lot in the 2years i've been on this site, so instead of just wagging our fingers at everyone, maybe the best brains here should start a new thread that aggregates the best advice for an "enduring" kitchen. Not only what we think might last, but choices one can make that will make a facelift easier in the future? Is there a wood cabinet that you would choose because it can look good stained or painted, for example?

    The "enduring" kitchen is a very worthy goal, not just because no one wants to be passe or waste money, but because it is very bad for the environment to take durable goods and treat them like ladies shoes...

  • palimpsest
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think the Design Around threads have the potential to steer people away from trend-based decision making.

    Not that I think every house needs or deserves a period-appropriate kitchen, if you look at those threads, you'll see that it is possible to do a kitchen that would be absolutely period (excepting appliances) for every kitchen since the white sanitary Edwardian kitchen to the year 2000, using currently available materials,

    This includes the much-maligned oak styles, laminate with the wood edge pulls, peach solid surface and streaky marble solid surface right out of 1975. It's all still being produced.

    Do you want to replicate these particular things in a new kitchen? Probably not, but since you Could, it is also possible to design a kitchen that is both new looking and Sympathetic to the house. It takes more legwork than a lot of people are able or willing to do (well, online searching),,,but it is definitely possible.

  • colorfast
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    When I first read the title, my kneejerk reaction was "Do I look fat in this?" To me, those questions are in the same category. I agree with Marco that the "timeless" question (like the "fat" question) is not helpful and even harmful.

    My questions were "can I comfortably live with this choice, when the newness fades in a few years?" And honestly, how durable are my choices? They need to last functionally, as in "not fall apart." College is just around the corner for my oldest, and then it's one child after the other.

    Oh and to answer the OP's question, until this remodel, I never replaced anything in my kitchen because simply I was tired of it. Any replacements were because the original broke beyond fixing with superglue. My whole house is 30 years old and there were too many other pressing needs.


  • aloha2009
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Even though I will have more of a cookie cutter kitchen, I so love and appreciate a kitchen that is kept it's architectural integrity. For myself, I think it's appreciating the uniqueness that it offers while staying functional.

    Since I HATE shopping, all this talk makes me exhausted hearing it. It's much easier to just go to the big box store, find what you need (not necessarily what you want) and you're out of there. It's hard not succombe to the lure of styles, unless you have the inclination to do what it takes to find all those special pieces.

    I'm not happy with appliance finishes but not wanting to blow by budget on getting what I want, I have to take what the mass marketers provide. Does my kitchen suffer because of this, of course. Is it because of the drive for the timeless kitchen, the finish options are severely limited to not date as much. As fast as I hear appliances are breaking down these days, it doesn't sound like you'd have to live with any finish choice too long anyway.

    Not wanting to have to go out and make more material choices 15-20 years down the line, will convince me that my kitchen is timeless at that point. I can live in my own little world regardless of the reality around me can't I?

  • bodhi
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm no expert on kitchen design but here's how I took the whole "timeless" concept when I began looking into kitchen remodel.

    Kitchen remodel/design is a costly project and no one wants to waste money on it so they want this kitchen remodel to last a while.

    Everybody has two "crowds" they have to please in the future. First, you have to make yourself/family happy. You are the ones living in this space and if you hate it in 5 years you likely regret some of your design decisions and right now you want to avoid that.

    Second, you want to please everybody else. That includes guests that come see your kitchen and anybody that might look at your house in the future if you try to sell it. You want a kitchen that people will like and maybe even "ooo and ahhh" over. And if you're selling your house you want your kitchen to add resale value and not detract from the rest of the house and cause people to have to budget for a kitchen remodel if they are buying your house.

    However, as many have already pointed out taste can vary widely over time and even if you and everybody else loves your kitchen now there really is no guarantee that will be the same in the future.

    I think the safest best is to have a kitchen that is functional, simple, and pretty but easily dressed up with accent pieces or quick changes such as wall paint. Even though I do like the look of the OTK (really white kitchen as I understand it) I thought this was the idea behind so many pushing that look on these forums. It does seem like a "safe bet" and not some outlandish design that might look crazy to people in 10 years once tastes change again.

  • marcolo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Funny, aloha, I piped in on your thread on the HD forum, which I always call "the blond leading the blond." With some exceptions it's sometimes a great place to learn what not to do. There, everyone seems to agree that appliances should never come in a color because "remember avocado and harvest gold." OK. But their cheap white appliances with plastic handles will be "timeless."

    I'm really intrigued by mtnrdredux's idea of a thread on designing a 15-year kitchen. Her own suggestions are good ones, and pal has noted some tricks he uses, such as mixing metals, which was a characteristic of most kitchens for most of the last century. I'm sure we'd have to beat down the timeless contingent now and then, but it could be useful.

    Although the gadfly in me is forcing me to say: One way to have a kitchen that looks good for a long time is to design it with absolutely the most cutting edge trends that none but the style makers are currently doing. (Ducking.)

  • rococogurl
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Respectful disagreement here.

    Multiple botanical prints are hardly out. They are featured constantly. A case could be made that they are very much in and working their way into the very newest wallpaper designs. Say thank you to Bunny Williams and the Brits.

    Patterned tile floors are very much in. The newer iteration are cement tiles with Iznik designs. Additionally porcelain tiles that mimic stone are huge. And Moroccan zeliij are being rediscovered. Say thank you also to the trendy Belgians and Indians (cement tiles are also made in Rajastan).

    Subways are the opposite of trendy. There are more or less standard and possibly on the way out in favor of 2 x 8s and 2 x 12s. Though I do feel they will always be used because of their pricing and mutability.

    I think a kitchen can be "memorable" or "distinctive" because it is individual with a personality of its own and some quirks vs a copy of elements with a different paint color. Sayde's kitchen is like that and there are others. Circuspeanut's certainly is individual. When done well those are very tough to date.

    And I think the irony may turn out to be that the movie kitchen often cited as "enduring" or "timeless" or "the one true" -- the Something's Gotta Give kitchen -- is the one that 20 years from now will need freshening first. That won't stop people believing they have built a kitchen that somehow, miraculously, will escape looking dated. But the phenomenon of visual time makes that impossible.

    Movies have always been more influential on style than anything else. So when the next great movie kitchen comes along, bam! New look.

    No matter what anyone builds, it will happen. And no matter how lovingly you preserve your own look, can count on the next person who buys your house to rip it all apart and change everything to reflect their own taste and time -- and probably post photos of all the hideous things you did to that kitchen way back in the early 2000s.

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Generally, we agree on that. But since everyone wants one, why can't we collectively offer the best, though flawed, advice on an "enduring" kitchen.

    I do respectfully disagree the subways aren't trendy (I put them in most of my bathrooms anyway).

    And while exotic, handmade, vaguely middle eastern, turkish etc tiles are very in, they are mostly on b/s. And tile floors are not "in". What is in is wood, very dark wood. I totally stand by my statement that if someone said they were putting sqaure tiles on their floor, no one would ooh and ahh, but we all oohed and ahhed when Sayde actually did it, so beautifully.

    I distinctly recall the first time I saw prints in matching frames done as a grid, in a NYC dining room, in the late 1980s. It was a big deal and then everyone did it. Especailly botanicals and birds. More recently, maps have been more popular in the style. I can think of an Elle cover that I think had huge b/w maps done that way, prob in the last year. But as far as nature, corals and three dimensional things were more recently "in". Specimens.

    Now, framed prints is pretty classic so it doesn't really go OUT. But, again, if someone on here posted and said, id really like to put some framed butterfly prints up, would anyone drool? No. They would be much more excited by vintage whatever, handmade whatever, ikat, suzani, eg current trends. Yet, again, Sayde did it and it looks wonderful. That's all I'm saying.

    Maybe it isn't IN versus OUT as much as HOT, HOT versus traditional?

  • writersblock (9b/10a)
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    For prints evidence, see this for example.

    Quote:

    "Sure, they're still a little grandma..." after the silly frame update with the ubiquitous ORB spray paint. Yes, there are some kinds of florals/botanicals that are in style, but they're not old prints of real botanical drawings, more like the kind of stuff kids used to do with rollers and block printing of silhouettes, or else absurd mishmashes with large text to point out that it's a BUTTERFLY and usually a platitude or two thrown in ("Let your heart soar" or some such nonsense), and extra points if you can work in:

    A. Old sheet music
    B. French language text
    C. Burlap

    I don't kid myself on this. I like Redoute and Gould and such, but those are as out as out can be right now, unless all faded and then you can pretend they're shabby chic.

    While everyone wants to be "timeless", there's not really any such thing as "classic" anymore. It's a dated concept, too, amongst those who care about such things. I personally think that's a lot of where the whole timeless discussion comes from. It's kind of like when there stopped being "pop" music and it suddenly had to be called "jazz" to be socially acceptable, even though it mostly isn't anything to do with jazz at all and the people who like it would hate real jazz like anything if they had to listen to it.

  • formerlyflorantha
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The "real question" is "How can I preserve or increase my investment, be perpetually in fashion, and love my kitchen forever?" The answer is "in your dreams."

    Remember folks, it's only a kitchen.

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Okay.

    But what is the answer to this query:

    I recognize that decor trends change swiftly. But for my kitchen, both budgetary and ethical considerations dictate that I will not gut my kitchen more than every 15 years.

    In your opinion, based on what is available to today, what choices would you make that give me
    1. The best possible expected longevity
    2. The easiest ways to update it as fashion changes.

    Isn't that a reasonable quest?

  • lavender_lass
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I still say, if you design a kitchen for yourself and not everyone else...you will like it for 15 years or more! If you only plan to stay in a house for 5 years...why worry? Then, design for fashion and resale.

    If you take resale out of it (at least for 15 years) then who cares, if you want blue countertops and bunny tiles (LOL that would be me) because you're the one living with it.

    Sounds like we have two different issues...timeless for our enjoyment and timeless for resale. Since Aloha plans to stay in her kitchen...I say, pick what YOU love and have some fun with this remodel! :)

  • mtnrdredux_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ... my question was hypothetical, it's not for me.

    I totally indulged myself in my new kitchen, and I am very very happy with it. I am hoping to never ever do it again.

    To that an end I am going to work on becoming a charming, eccentric colorful (in the non-chromatic sense, of course) old lady in my dotage, who still has her _____ fill in the blank. Hmm, I think I will have to take up some odd hobbies or collections, and maybe affect an accent. My passe kitchen will be the least of it in 25 years!

  • marcolo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I suggest an ill-fitting wig collection.

  • fnzzy
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think we're going to look at these "One true kitchens" 20 or 30 years from now and they're going to scream 2000's. Just like avocado green and harvest gold scream out their own decades and faux-lonial screams it's decade. There isn't anything wrong with that, and I can guarantee that when all those people were designing their cabinets and counters and houses many yeasr ago, then they also said "it's timeless".

    It's human nature. Sort of like "oh you'll TOTALLY be able to wear that bridesmaid dress again! It's timeless!"

  • boxerpups
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You crack me up Marcolo....

  • rococogurl
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We do disagree on what's in and what's out/ or hot-not. I've been paid for years by major publications to produce that kind of thing so I'll stand by my observations. But the fun here is in the discussion so everyone's opinion is valid. And it's good to kick it all around in a big group like this with so many different approaches and taste groupings.

    IMO the best possible longevity can be created by the most unique vision and the best integration of the kitchen into the general decor of the overall house.

    There is no easy way to update a kitchen as fashion changes because of the domino effect. Just think of every one of those articles in magazines telling you how to do easy updates. They are always the same because there's only so many things that can be done without construction. Sure, mutable surfaces like wall color, window treatment, and cabinet color are least difficult but if the kitchen is well though through and stylistically integrated into the rest of the house, it's unlikely that only the kitchen will be updated.

    OTOH, along with the bathroom and bedroom it's likely to be one of the rooms someone wants to update first. So then you're into a 15-35 year reno/redec cycle that's pretty normal since we are aging as well, sad as it is to contemplate, and we're responding to changing needs, life situations, lifestyle etc.

    But whatever the choices are, I have learned from experience that visual time will change perception in some way that's impossible to anticipate. And then there's the movies.

    In my mind, however, when I'm a really old lady (I've never been little) I won't need a kitchen. Just my iphone. I fully intend to live above a coffee shop and near a takeout store and have them on speed dial. By that time I will have cooked everything I ever wanted to and I'll need to spend less time in the kitchen and more time getting the false eyelashes on straight. I'll still enjoy people inviting me over (virtually or otherwise) to see what's new.

    Speaking of new, has anyone actually seen that Thermador dual fuel Steam Pro range with the star burners, the 22K btu flame thrower, titanium grill, convection oven plus small steam oven and warming drawer? Talk about updates, I was drooling (though no idea if it's great).

  • rosie
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Someone mentioned wanting to create a kitchen that always looked "right" as it dated over the years. IMO a very enlightened approach and the best way to achieve something like timelessness.

    I'd like to suggest a first step to "rightness": Creating a good space to develop. So many kitchens fail in rightness over time because expensive, often gorgeous purchases were installed in a space that was not optimized. Plumbing was not moved, doors were not lined up or filled in, windows not added or removed, ceilings not dropped or walls moved to improve proportions, etc.

    With the basics of good design compromised, inevitably, as the special shine of stylish new materials wears off, the deficits of these kitchens become more noticeable.

    Evidence supporting this is in the kitchen pointed at so much in this thread--Sayde's. Yes, the cabinets are good, but they're installed in an excellent space that allowed excellent development and thus has been very satisfactory through several decades of change now. The big key to its "timelessness."

  • marquest
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Timeless to me is what I have seen in old homes that have stood the test of time. Who cares if they are not shinning. It looks like the kitchen was actually used. The marble is etched showing meals were cooked and people enjoyed the space. It was not something to show I have arrived.

    I know you cannot keep a stove fridge etc for 80 years now they are not built to last that long. But good wood cabinets, marble counters (not granite) is what I see in the old homes. When I say old homes I am talking about 100 year old houses.

    I doubt any of the new homes built today will be timeless so it really will not matter what kind of kitchen you put in them. The house will not be there to be timeless.

  • antss
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    .....................and the real answer is:

    can you help me with my fear and self doubt !

  • aloha2009
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Marquest, there is so much track building out there that I think your hypothesis of no new home being built will be timeless will be truer. Craftsmanship is held off for custom homes only, and even those had a certain homongonous feel. I doubt you will see any smaller homes with the type of craftmanship we can see in older homes.

    Antss, funny but true!

  • lavender_lass
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Aloha- I think that's what appeals to people, who read the 'Not So Big House' books. The choice between square footage, budget and architectural details...because there is a growing awareness that new homes often lack the 'quality features' that we associate with older homes. Maybe that's the key to being timeless? Including craftsman features (not the design movement, but the quality) that will still be appreciated and in demand...even 100 years from now :)

  • palimpsest
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Could part of the question be "Why do I get tired of things I like(d)?"

  • Laurie35
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I can only speak about what I thought when I remodeled.

    I didn't think about timeless, nor do I think it is achievable. I am 52 years old. Between my family home, where my parents have remodeled in some significant extent about every five years, and my own remodeling efforts, I have lived in kitchens with brown, gold, almond, black, white, and stainless steel appliances. Countertops have been laminate, tile, corian, butcher block and granite. I could give similar progressions for faucets, sinks, flooring, and pulls.

    I think that the best that one can hope for in a kitchen remodel is that it fits into the rest of the house and that you haven't sunk so much money into it that you can't adjust in the future.

    When I posted my kitchen remodel here, I called it my "black dress" kitchen. I know it is bland by some standards. It has the white shaker cabinets, the stainless steel appliances, subway tiles, the granite countertops.

    Do I think it is timeless? No. What I do think is that it fits my house. No one is going to walk into my kitchen, and think, "What the hell?"

    Things change. Particularly, appliances change. My parents have a trash compactor in their kitchen. They have had one for decades. I don't actually remember a time when they didn't have one. It dates the kitchen, but they like it. I think wine storage will be similar: it is something that people who have one like, but will have a certain "used by" date.

    And appliances die. Looking back at the kitchens that I have lived in, nothing has a greater expiration date, both by function and design, than appliances. I personally wouldn't design around appliances, because those will eventually be as outdated as my parents' trash compactor.

    I think that you have to design around your space, and forget about timeless in your appliances and finishes. Several people have pointed to Sayde's kitchen, and said "That is what we meant by timeless." It is a lovely kitchen that stayed very true to its roots. But many of us don't have as good of roots.

    The only thing that is timeless, in my opinion, is layout. A good layout transcends time, or at least I'd like to think that. But I live in a house with a little 7 1/2 by 10 foot kitchen, so maybe it is easy for me to say that there is only one good layout.

  • GreenDesigns
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I remember back to my teen bedroom. It was the first time I had been allowed to design everything myself and I was giddy. I chose a wallpaper with bright almost primary color cartoon flowers and stripes and pulled out colors from that for the rest of the room. Grass green carpet, taxi yellow closet doors, sky blue woodwork, and aqua and purple bedding. Yes, I'm getting a headache now thinking about it!

    I was tired of that in a year. And I wasn't going to be allowed to change it because my parents spent money on this and how dare I be already ready to discard brand new decor! So, I had to wait until I was 14 and had started babysitting to pick up money of my own to spend. The first thing I did was to rip down the wallpaper. Then I painted the woodwork and closet doors cream, and the walls peach. I ripped up the grass green carpet and painted the damaged wood floors that they covered a chocolate brown. I used cream eyelet bedding and went to the local fabric store for remnant fabric in peach, chocolate, and orange for pillows and made a rag rug from them.

    I kept it like that until I moved out of the house and into my first apartment. And that bedroom is still in my mother's house and she uses it as a guestroom today with the same everything. And I do mean everything. I spent a lot of money getting quality bedding, took care of it, and it's still in great shape.

    The difference between the two was following what I saw around me as popular and trendy, and then following something I liked and found soothing, but that was much more basic, and well, almost boring to some.

    I've pretty much used the same strategy in all of my homes since then. Adding trendy pillows, art, and rugs, to a room that you built with good bones can take that room through many years and many trends. That does NOT mean shying away from color and using "safe" neutrals! I love color! And paint is easy to change. But a 3K sofa, that's not so easy to change. All of my larger "investment pieces" are in neutrals in clean simple lines.

    And that is what I think people should strive for in a kitchen. So, what does neutral with clean simple lines mean for a kitchen? I think that was described above. Slab doors in natural woods. Raised panel doors in medium toned wood or white paint. Recessed panel doors in natural or medium toned woods or in white. Wood manipulated in any way to look very light (think whitewashed) or very dark (think espresso) will always be a fad. Slab doors in black or orange lacquer or horizontal grained ebony will be faddish. Even the wide stiles and rails shaker cabinets will be a fad. White shaker will fade in fashion, but it will never look too wrong if it looks right with the rest of your house.

  • marquest
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    lavender, I agree that is the feeling I get when I walk into a old home,,,the quality the molding, detail. These are the things that will stands the test of time making it timeless. vs Walking into a new home and there is no detail and you get a hollow feeling.

    Aloha, I know I watched them build a house on my way to the store weekly and I could not believe what they were using for building material. This was not a new development or track house. They were building a Mcmansion true enough on the outside but I would bet the inside was as pitiful as the outside.

    I guess timeless has a short life span these days. Timeless has be come less time, LOL

  • angie_diy
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My evolution of the timeless concept, with varying degrees of naivete:

    When we were first planning to replace our worn-out, bad-layout kitchen in our 1920's house, we actually said that we wanted our new one "to be timeless." What did we mean? Similar to others, I think we wanted a "safe" one that would last us a long time.

    We actually put off the reno for a long time. We took two serious runs at it at 5-year intervals, before finally pulling the trigger last spring. So, as we looked through many magazines, inspiration pictures, and books that were 0, 5, and 10 years old, we decided we needed our kitchen to be "timeless." What did we mean then? I think we wanted one that was not hewing to the current trend, one that would not soon look dated. I think that in some corner of my small brain, I thought there were two parallel kitchen tracks: one for stodgy old kitchens, which did not vary much, and another track for trendy kitchens that had high design features that came and went. We wanted to be on the former track. I imagined this track used modest white appliances and eschewed fancy baubles. It did, however, use high-quality materials.

    Next, I thought it was important that the kitchen respected the period/history of the house. (Still do.)

    We finally started on the reno. We chose Shaker cabs. Those must be timeless, they are plain and have been around forever! (Little did I know that seemingly 3/4 of kitchens being built today use them.)

    My evolution took a detour, as I hung out on GW and got my tastes refined for me. (Not sure that I WANTED them to be refined, but that is a different question!) The dollar amount soared. What was that we said about modest white appliances? That notion was vaporized, and a lot of disposable income was disposed of!

    A more important outcome of GW was getting the layout correct and structure right. As an example of the latter, we opened up kitchen doorway to the DR to a 4' arch that matches the arches in the rest of the house. We also removed a door frame and arched over the other door out of the kitchen, and removed and arched the next door/doorway that goes to the front entrance. We came to the realization that, in the '20s, people wanted to be able to close off the kitchen. However, if you were building a 1920s house today, you wouldn't do that. So I tried to reinterpret the '20s aesthetic in modern sensibilities. ("Timeless!") But, as argued above, the improved layout should be vital in staving off a future reno before the materials wear out.

    We made some iconoclastic choices. Not purposely contrarian, just didn't like the normal choices. For example, we will have copper-clad appliances. This is getting us into Pal's and other's notions of what is hard to date. Our KD tried to talk us into white cabs - no deal. Also, we chose soapstone counters, but, prior to GW, this WAS an iconoclastic choice!

    Finally, form trumps function, and we will have a MW drawer. I am confident, whether MW drawers catch on or not, that this will date us.

    What do I think is timeless now? Nothing. But I hope that the kitchen works for us for years thanks to good layout and quality materials/construction, and that it respects the rest of the home with a kind of period-appropriate, but not period, look. I think, intentionally or not, we now have most of mtn-rd-again's criteria covered!

  • theresse
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My favorite kind of timeless is simply being period-appropriate for the house as others have stated. I don't love the timeless look in a modern house though (cringe - well maybe it would be okay if the house has a reproduction look in which case the kitchen looks nice when it's...what do they call those...transitional? A modern look with a few classic touches or vice-versa?). Not sure why I cringe at the thought of a newer house w/ the timeless look (in general) - probably for the same reason I don't like wooden ducks with blue bows. Not that that should make sense to any of you! And otherwise I think "timeless" is a romantic notion and those into that have an appreciation for the good ol' days - or how we imagine it was, anyway. I agree about the marketing though (more cringing)...

  • sayde
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Just read this thread and wanted to thank you for the kind appraisal of my kitchen! If only you knew how nervous I was about some of the choices, such as the checkerboard floor. But as I have said elsewhere, it was really the house telling me what to do. I almost felt like I was channeling it.

    Also I agree about the Shaw's sink. I love the big single bowl but if I were doing it over again I would pick a different more anonymous (and less quirky) apron sink, and a larger one. Getting a 30 inch range also was a conscious decision as larger ranges were seductive. But in the end felt a 30 met my needs and seemed consistent with what might have been here in the twenties.

    Thank you again. I feel very honored to have had such high praise on this forum! Love being able to share your posts with DH.

    We are now building a pantry cupboard out of reclaimed gumwood. Looking forward to being able to show you all!

  • angie_diy
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oops. I, of course, meant "function trumps form."

  • marquest
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It is funny I was reading a magazine in the doctor's office and it was about choosing counter tops and granite was listed as a trend not to withstand the test of time because of its unique designs it is a individual choice it will be the Harvest Gold fridge of the 50s. LOL

    Well I guess that product will not be timeless. When the new trend of zen comes back in vogue no one will want all that movement in their kitchens.

  • lavender_lass
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Marquest- Interesting...an exception may be the absolute black granite. No movement.

  • dianalo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think the reason Sayde's kitchen is noted as timeless is because it is not a mass produced kitchen. It does not look like every builder's kitchen or what Martha is hawking at HD (although I bet it is truer to the kind she'd want, lol).
    When you use very common materials throughout, it is bound to date you to when those materials were popular.

    Timeless will be the ones that work well and are interesting. They don't need to be far out or wild, but just not done in the current fashion because fashion changes. Try to use some unique pieces or put them together in a different way. It takes more searching, but when you find things that click it is worth the extra effort.
    If some of the elements date the year it was done, that is fine too. I don't think we need new kitchens all the time, but ones that we will appreciate over time. Some people feel the need for a new car every 2 years yet others hold on longer and are just fine with it. A kitchen is not a disposable item and should be done with the intention of decades of use. Individual items may need replacing or repair, but as a whole, it should last a good long while. We take so much care to lay them out right and maximize the space that there should be much less need down the road to correct flaws like we all have done or are doing with our renos. The thread about what we hate about our old kitchens contains many things that no one would do in a new kitchen. I think kitchen design has evolved enough to need much fewer tweaks in the future! 10 years ago, we'd buy a new computer because the new ones were twice as fast or held more data. In the time in between, the advances have been so far and so fast that very few replace a 4-6 year old computer to gain speed or space, but only if they malfunction.

  • marcolo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Again--I do not agree Sayde's kitchen is timeless. It would not have been at all popular between around 1930 and 1974-ish. We will absolutely cycle back to a rip-it-out aesthetic and vintage looks will pass completely out of favor. And I say that as a person who intends to embed strong vintage elements in his kitchen.

    Sayde's kitchen has many virtues, but guaranteed future popularity is not one of them.

  • marquest
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Sayde's kitchen has many virtues, but guaranteed future popularity is not one of them"

    marcolo, Is it not the idea that it is not "popular" and just the latest new thing is what would make it timeless?

    I guess we have to define timeless.

  • marcolo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Timeless does not exist. It is a fantasy. Nothing is timeless. As I said above, using the word only harms conversation, impedes clear thinking and leads to bad results.

  • lavender_lass
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Marcolo- So, what you're saying is that the only timeless thing...is that no kitchen will ever be timeless? :)

  • palimpsest
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In terms of guaranteed future popularity--this is a good point.

    I don't think that avocado and gold appliances were introduced to be the bane of existence for the people who had them and hated them in the following decades; nor do I think they were introduced and planned obsolescence.

    I think they were introduced as the next phase of personalization or expression that was available in kitchen design, and it didn't work out that way.

    Ironically, these colors were probably chosen as the result of consumer research.

    But the Ford Edsel was the car design based upon the most consumer surveys and research up to that time, and look what happened to it. At least it was named Edsel and not "Utopian Turtletop" which was one of the contenders.

    No matter how beautiful or classic we thing things may look to our eye, there is no guarantee that our children will agree or their children will agree; and something from this era that we think is Meh or worse could enjoy an enduring revival.

    And with full knowledge of coming off as elitist or condescending, I think it is a big mistake to confuse popular taste with good taste :)

  • mudhouse_gw
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    No matter how beautiful or classic we think things may look to our eye, there is no guarantee that our children will agree or their children will agree; and something from this era that we think is Meh or worse could enjoy an enduring revival.

    As someone who is living in (and working on) a home purchased from parents, I have to say, this statement is totally, completely, utterly, and tragically accurate. It has been a somewhat awkward and stressful revelation to all of us that many of the elements most prized by my parents are the very ones we'd like to change.

    In my case, the previous owners of my home are not strangers. They have the same background and values that we do. We share all of those things to this day. The main difference is only one generation.

    Which leads me to agree that there is no such thing as timeless. I'm now pretty convinced that expending too much energy trying to assure that future "others" will love our choices as much as we do is probably not a good investment of our time.

    However, I also think it's only human nature to want to believe that no one would ever want anything different. I agree that people may be dealing with the fear of doing something wrong when they ask, "what's the most timeless choice?" But they may also be asking, "what's the choice that everyone will always love as much as I do?"

    And of course, in most cases, there is no such choice, because part of working on our own homes is expressing our own individuality.

  • fnzzy
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Timeless:
    The little black dress
    The diamond solitaire
    The string of white pearls
    The white kitchen.

    Not timeless:
    the shape/style/design of the LBD , so a LBD from 1990 does NOT look current, no matter how much convincing you want to do. A LBD from 1950/60's MIGHT, but only because that is back in style.

    not timeless: The yellow gold of my 1989 solitaire. It's still a solitaire but what's in right now is white or platinum. In 10 years, yellow gold will be back in style. My mother's rings from 1950 something are totally HOT right now.

    not timeless: well, I can't say much about pearls. They don't change. Maybe a single string of pearls is the ONLY timeless thing? LOL

    not timeless: the white kitchen with butchblock from the 90s, the white kitchen with tile or corian from the 80's, the white kitchen with formica from the 60's, white kitchens with stainless counters from the 50's- nor will the white kitchen with granite or soapstone from the 2000's be any different.

    It's the Ideas that are timeless : "THE WHITE KITCHEN" is timeless. it's what we do to it that makes it come and go from style.

    take a look at this link : there are white kitchens in EVERY decade. None are timeless. there are some that look perfectly current today, but I bet any money, 10 years from now we wouldn't think so.

    Here is a link that might be useful: kitchens from every decade.

  • sas95
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I can't say much about pearls. They don't change. Maybe a single string of pearls is the ONLY timeless thing?

    Although around a year ago I was shopping in a store, wearing a single strand of pearls. The saleswoman remarked that my pearls looked "quaint." And that "no one wears them anymore." So maybe not even pearls.

  • fnzzy
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Although around a year ago I was shopping in a store, wearing a single strand of pearls. The saleswoman remarked that my pearls looked "quaint." And that "no one wears them anymore." So maybe not even pearls.
    true, they come in and out of high style, but THAT string of pearls, the same EXACTLY one, will look stylish without any modifications the next time they come back in. Though, IMO, there are always occasions where pearls are completely 100% perfect. Timeless. lol

  • lavender_lass
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would argue that a white kitchen has been in and out of popularity, but I don't know if that makes it 'timeless'. After the last white kitchen fad (1980s I think?) it was out of style for quite a while, with the cherry cabinets and granite countertops.

  • marcolo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    So to go back to the original question--what is the emotional (and therefore irrational) need to call certain things timeless, when nothing is timeless?

    I'm not talking about people who really mean, tell me my tiny glass mosaics aren't going to look really bad in eighteen months.

    I still say it's a claim of superiority, not longevity.

    And pal, I don't think popular taste matters. Think of all the artists and composers whose now-canonical work went through periods of complete disdain among critics and other artists before being rediscovered. Everything cycles in every circle.

    BTW this thread caused me to Google "kitchen trends 2012." I recommend you don't try it, unless you are able to vent by physically punching some of the people who write these articles. They all start, "This year, kitchens are..." Right. I'll be sure to rip out my kitchen every nine months just so I can keep up with what "everyone" is doing.

  • plllog
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't have time to read through this whole thread, however more interesting it looks than my work. It doesn't have pictures, though!

    DATED INDICATIVE STYLE THAT AGES FAIRLY WELL TIMELESS

    {{gwi:1589567}}

  • babushka_cat
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    i think the question asked is an expression of anxiety: i am spending a lot of money on this remodel and do not want to spend it again to fix my errors when it looks dated. please reassure me my choices are not wrong.

    IMHO.

  • cawaps
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Plllog's pics reminded me of this website of fashions of the 50s and 60s (see link below). The 60s include questions with each photo asking what you think of the item (Options: poor design in any decade, cool but not for me, I would have worn it back then, I would wear it now). My answers were a mix. Some things definitely age better than others.

    Of pllog's pics, only the first one makes me want to claw my eyes out. Both the style and colors are so extreme. The black/white and navy/white colors of the other two are conservative and are never exactly out of fashion. The specific styles and how they are combined date them, but don't make them look ridiculous.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Historic fashions

  • building2017
    9 years ago

    I found this thread while researching kitchen elements for a build. I found it interesting that in these 2012 comments, some were predicting marble holding it's own in timelessness due to price, yet in 2015 almost every new build and/or Reno in our local MLS system has a white cab/marble/subway tile kitchen or bath. It is strange to see a look that I too thought of as timeless or enduring is now a huge trend, at least where we live. Makes me go back to the drawing board... as a classic, simple, enduring or unique kitchen is what we are after.

  • Lavender Lass
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Updated answer---timeless means I/we won't get tired of it.

    Is there a kitchen we won't get tired of...really? Even if it's classic, what if our needs change? Or our tastes change...or technology changes?

    Timeless (I think) means a look that will always fit a particular style of home and it has enough charm that it will become vintage or retro...but still appealing.

    Hope we can say the same for ourselves :)

  • beachem
    9 years ago

    I enjoyed reading this thread and the comparison to clothing especially the LBD. I think what we should be striving for is functionality with beauty. That is what is timeless. The harmonious whole of the kitchen.

    By the way, I am one of those who haven't made a single change to my kitchen in 18 years (even if I hate the granite the designer picked out). I am forced to remodel now due to a flood.

    Let me give an example: I still wear a lot of suits and evening dresses from the 80s. In fact, whenever I do, people ask me where I got the suits so they can buy them. These suits are classic because they were cut to flatter my figure/body and would have a spectacular detail to make them stand out. They were never trendy with the big shoulders etc... The same went with my LBD. The focus was on me, the wearer, not the clothes. The proof of their classic appeal is the fact that my MUCH younger sister borrow my clothes for special occasions or meetings.

    The key with kitchens is to get what you love but temper it with harmonious colors or lines. Everyone's tastes will always have some differences but we all agree for the most part on beauty. Focus on the bones of the room/house and work to enhance that.

    I visit my cousins in France frequently and they live in old buildings in Paris and rural villages. Their kitchens are mostly original with some appliances update but they are all beautiful.

    I believe that this is what people mean when they are trying to find the concept of timeless. Something that pleases the eye or speak to the soul even if you don't personally like the era or style. Think of art. I dislike modern art tremendously but can appreciate specific pieces such as Van Gogh's Starry Nights or Sunflowers.


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