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Layout help/suggestions/opinions

Posted by Pwanna1 (My Page) on
Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 11:53

Hi all�we're getting one step closer to building. I have designed, re-designed and re-designed again my kitchen layout and think I have something workable�I thought I'd throw it up here for opinions. The room is 20x20. I am taking our plans to the draftsman next week, so window placements are still changeable if someone has a stroke of brilliance and thinks way out of the box on how to lay this out. Any feedback would be appreciated. Appliances are:
Full Fridge/Full Freezer (about 5 1/2 ft of space)
36" range
30" oven with micro/convection oven above it
Ice maker
Thanks!
Polly


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Layout help/suggestions/opinions

Will you be eating regular meals at the island? If so, you might consider moving the cleanup sink off the island, as you'll be looking at dirty dishes and pots & pans while you eat.


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RE: Layout help/suggestions/opinions

The sink has been the bane of my existence! :) I don't really want it in the island, but I don't know where else to go with it? Any suggestions?

The space seems large to me, but then there are doors on 3 corners, so to me I feel like my 20x20 kitchen gets whittled down to 16x16 for walkways. Plus I have 5 1/2 feet of fridge.


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RE: Layout help/suggestions/opinions

Looks like you could get the sink off the island if you went with a range instead of cooktop & wall oven.


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RE: Layout help/suggestions/opinions

Hmmm, I've gotta give this one some thought (but I've also got to work, so I'll be back later LOL)


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RE: Layout help/suggestions/opinions

That is a range and then an additional oven with micro/convection. I cook A LOT and need two ovens…wanted 3 but my husband cut me off! :)


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RE: Layout help/suggestions/opinions

How about a double oven range and a single wall oven undercounter or large toaster oven on the counter?


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RE: Layout help/suggestions/opinions

Thought of that…I am looking at doing my range in gas and then the wall oven can be electric. my concession to NOT getting 3 ovens (my husband thinks it excessive…whatever! :) ) is to do a convection microwave. That way I have a 3 oven for emergency use. Doing a 60" range gives me all gas or all electric ovens. I could live with both ovens being electric but I can't live with the sticker shock of the cost to do 60" duel fuel. My husband thinks I'm crazy fussy, but I believe I can get what I want and have it work! (I'm counting on you all to help show him!) Thanks!!!!


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RE: Layout help/suggestions/opinions

Wow, you're trying to fit a lot of big stuff in there! Doesn't seem possible to me, at least not without major concessions (esp. sink & DW on island & reduced prep space). Fingers crossed for you that somebody more clever than me can work some magic for you!


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RE: Layout help/suggestions/opinions

I should add that island is 5 1/2' x 9 1/2'


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RE: Layout help/suggestions/opinions

Although I have 36" aisles in my kitchen, IMO your aisle is too narrow to accommodate the range, sink and DW bottleneck. If you put the fridges on the right wall, next to the door to the deck, they would be more convenient for everyone coming from the DR and FR, as well as those using the deck. Then put the oven/MW on the top wall, then 36" drawer base, then the range (in a much more protected area).

Prep will be more or less in the corner, but the windows can still be redesigned, so that you have a view. Put the trash pull-out, sink, and DW on the right wall, then fridges. Since the clean-up sink would be on the perimeter, the island could be made a little narrower, and the right side aisle, wider. And maybe you could fit in a small prep sink/bar sink on the fridge end of the island, to keep water seekers out of your work-space. Instead of having the MW with the oven on the top wall, a MW drawer in the island would make that a good area for snackers, again keeping them out of your space.

Without the clean-up sink and DW, the island can house drawers for dish storage, opposite the DW. And IMO (so feel free to disregard) I'd ditch the desk in favor of another pantry.


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RE: Layout help/suggestions/opinions

I couldn't tell what the square at the top of the island was, until I re-read your OP. Could you fit in the ice maker next to the small sink/bar sink I suggested? That would make sense for the snack area.

It looks as if you will have a void all along the back of the bar, in front on the stools. Can you fit in storage for things that aren't often used--holiday decor, canning equipment, snow boards? ;)

This post was edited by mama_goose on Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 18:27


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RE: Layout help/suggestions/opinions

Okay...reworking a bit on this tonight. Will post improved plan later or tomorrow...my question for you, I was thinking 42" for my aisles around the island...should I go a little larger, 48"? In your opinion....


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RE: Layout help/suggestions/opinions

lol, if you don't have a sink or appliances on the island, then 42" should be sufficient. If you keep the sink on the island, opposite the range, or have prep sink, ice maker, and /or MW drawer on the island, then a wider aisle is definitely better.

Also, how deep is your bench under the window? It looks as if it's 16-18". We have 16" deep benches, with closets on each side, and speaking from experience, I'd make the bench deeper if possible. Ours are in a playroom--they're comfortable for the kids, but for adults, at least 20" would be better. Any reason you can't make it flush with the adjoining cabinets?


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RE: Layout help/suggestions/opinions

Whoa this is my layout!!! Pretty much. Don't put the sink in the island...especially given how much seating you put in there, as I guess it's an eat-in? Throw it under the window to the left of the cooktop and the dishwasher beside it to the right of sink, left of cooktop. It's therapeutic to wash dishes while gazing outside.

Here is a link that might be useful: Have you seen my kitchen


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RE: Layout help/suggestions/opinions

My Kitchen is 17x18...island is 3x8. Though your island is bigger you also have more seating and overhangs on two sides. Take the sink and dw out if the island.


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I dug up my plans for you...also another photo for more perspective.
 photo afa21b74-dc2b-4d9d-b7b5-6f3259c1845c_zps5126ac5f.jpg


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RE: Layout help/suggestions/opinions

Darn just realized my cabinet run is longer than yours...and the sink would be beside the cooktop in your case. No go....sigh. Sorry about that. Guess the sink in the island is your only option. I suggest you take away some of the chairs on the far end and keep the overhang to one side. That will help with not feeling like you're overwhelmed by people at the island, while you're doing dishes.

This post was edited by redroze on Sat, Feb 1, 14 at 1:49


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RE: Layout help/suggestions/opinions

Actually if I were you is put the sink under the rightmost window and the dishwasher to the left if it. Seems unconventional but I think it's a better placement than the island.


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RE: Layout help/suggestions/opinions

Thank you all for wrapping your brains around this. :) I spent some time re-working the room last night. I realized part of my battle was the door to the deck, which we'd put in the kitchen b/c of dogs and the flooring. So, I thought, why not extend the hardwood 4 feet into the family room so we could move the door around the corner into the family room?? So, here's what I came up with. What do you think? (my husband thinks he's Hi-Larious and added the Mona Lisa, please ignore him!) :)


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RE: Layout help/suggestions/opinions

Thank you all for wrapping your brains around this. :) I spent some time re-working the room last night. I realized part of my battle was the door to the deck, which we'd put in the kitchen b/c of dogs and the flooring. So, I thought, why not extend the hardwood 4 feet into the family room so we could move the door around the corner into the family room?? So, here's what I came up with. What do you think? (my husband thinks he's Hi-Larious and added the Mona Lisa, please ignore him!) :)


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RE: Layout help/suggestions/opinions

another angle


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RE: Layout help/suggestions/opinions

the floor plan


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RE: Layout help/suggestions/opinions

Optimal aisle width with more than one person in the aisle is 48". Does your island need to be 66" wide to fit two stools? Can you reach the middle easily to clean?


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But...but...but window seats are sooooo charming! :[

That layout looks so much more functional. I notice that the door on the left has been moved slightly to accommodate the masterpiece. If you leave it as drawn in the first plan, and extend the counter to the wall, that would be a nice place for a baking center (I can imagine a KitchenAid mixer there, already), with the other side used as a snack center. Or maybe a recycling center with pull-outs.

Teehee, if your hubby can have such a sense of humor when facing a kitchen remodel, he's a keeper!


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RE: Layout help/suggestions/opinions

  • Posted by buehl 7a, AHS 5/6 (MD) (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 1, 14 at 11:53

Regarding the question about how much space is needed for seating when you have seating on two sides...

Each seat needs:

  • 24" of linear space

  • A minimum of 15" of clear knee/leg room (for counter-height seating)

    • If you plan to make this your main eating space, then I strongly recommend 18" otherwise, 15" is fine for the majority of people

    • If you're a tall or long-legged family, then 18" is better

    • The clear knee/leg space is just that - clear/open space - after accounting for cabinets and decorative end panels/decorative doors on the backs or sides of the cabinets.

  • Keep in mind that two seats cannot share the same knee/leg space in a corner

So, if you want seating for five with three along the back and two along the side, the OP needs an island at least one of the two dimensions below to accommodate seating - not counting cabinets:

Option 1:
Width = 24" + 24" + 24" + 15" = 87" (7'3")
Depth = 24" + 24" = 48" (4')

Option 2:
Width = 24" + 24" + 24" = 72" (6')
Depth = 24" + 24" + 15" = 63" (5'3")

For seating for six (4 along the back) - just add 24" to the width.

Island Seating - Options - without cabinets photo IslandSeating-Options-withoutcabinets_zpsbcb821ad.jpg


When you factor in cabinets, decorative doors/end panels, and counter overhangs, the island dimensions may increase - but you always need a minimum of the above.

Island Seating - Options - with cabinets photo IslandSeating-Options-withcabinets_zps68a12e5a.jpg

Of course, when designing the island, you would make it a bit wider/deeper to get usable measurements for cabinets.

For example:

The 21.6" would probably be changed to either 22" or 24" (depending on whether you are having custom cabinets made.)
Ditto for the 54.6" --> 55" or 57"
In the case of the 6.6" deep cabs, I think they should probably be increased to 12" for usability's sake.

With a 15" overhang, do not take the additional space away from the overhang - if you have an 18" overhang, you could take up to 3" from the overhang.


Here's with reasonable cabinets:

Island Seating - Options - with actual cabinets photo IslandSeating-Options-withactualcabinets_zps672339af.jpg


To determine the maximum usable depth for an island...how long is your reach (for wiping down the island or reaching the middle)? Take that measurement and multiply by 2 - since you can walk around the island and reach from all sides.

For most people, the maximum depth is around 60" , i.e., a 30" reach. The maximum for you will depend on your height and arm length. I'm 5'10" with long arms and I can reach 42" with only a small amount of "strain" - so the max depth for me would be 84". [That would be a continent, not an island, if the width were comparable!!!]


[Edited to specify "counter-height seating"]

This post was edited by buehl on Sat, Feb 1, 14 at 11:56


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RE: Layout help/suggestions/opinions

beuhi...this is great information...THANKS!
Mama_goose...don't you worry....I've moved window seats to either side of the fireplace in the family room...I have ALWAYS wanted a window seat! :)


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