LL
Bummer - did you get the name of the person that approved fixing it?
If so, go ahead - if not call back and get the name and write it all down and repeat it back to them.
A2gemini

I'm sorry to tell you that I had a huge problem with Lowes and one of their contractors. The truck driver they contracted with backed over our neighbors fancy landscaping and broke it to bits when they delivered the wood for the addition. Despite pictures in the mud showing the exact path the truck took, they went back and forth for months, with nobody fixing the problem.

I had to file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau to get some movement. Had a check for my neighbor within 24 hours. I'd recommend resolving it locally first, but that is an option if you can't get somebody to take responsibility.

Turn off the shut off valve under the sink. NOW. And call a plumber. Make sure he's familiar with poly piping. And, now that I recall that you have trailer plumbing, I'd kinda have to have that as the first suspect, not the DW. It's notorious for leaking.

Have them email you while you're on the phone with them that you should green light your brother to fix it. Don't let them hang up until you get the email.

Do NOT let a relative fix it! That can quickly turn into a "he said she said" bit and you'll never get anything from Lowes in that situation. You want a licensed independent third party who knows polybutylene piping and can certify with some credibility if the DW is the problem.

I would think when the serviceman gets there that it would be fairly clear when he turns it on where the leak is located. Water line, hose, machine, shutoff valve ....

Since there is damage to your home, I would want an objective third party, not the installer who might tend to blame anything but themselves because they could be liable for the damages if it's due to some oversight of their own. I would call Lowes about that first and insist on an outside party to evaluate. Their installer could still be present if they insist. Talk to a manager.

This post was edited by snookums2 on Mon, Jan 6, 14 at 18:56

I talked to Shane at Lowe's in Spokane Valley and he said to go ahead and stop the leak. I'm hoping this will be okay, but I don't have the time or money to call in a plumber immediately. The service charge alone (living so far from town) is a problem, not to mention I cannot turn off the water right now, with my husband's situation. We're supposed to get snow tonight and I HAVE to run the water in order to keep the well from freezing or the pipes bursting.

I'm hoping Lowe's will make good on this, but worse case scenario, the damage will be much worse if I do nothing. Keeping my fingers crossed...but I've worked with Shane before and he seems to be a good guy.

Thanks again...and even if I can't do what everyone suggests, I DO appreciate your input. It also can be helpful for anyone else having the same problem, so please keep suggestions coming :)

No one is saying to turn off the water to the house. Turn off the water under the sink only. There is a shut off valve there that the DW should be connected to. If you have an active leak, that should stop it.

No one is saying to turn off the water to the house. Turn off the water under the sink only. There is a shut off valve there that the DW should be connected to. If you have an active leak, that should stop it.

I'm really sorry to hear this Lav. Everyone has already said anything I would suggest. Good luck & keep us posted.

In all fairness, there is no way a floor rots in a few weeks.

It sounds to me like this was an ongoing problem with the old machine and was only noticed after the new was installed.

Should the installer have noticed the damage? Probably. Should he have used a new supply line? Probably.

Everyone needs to just chill until this can be thoroughly and fairly investigated and diagnosed.

"Everyone needs to just chill until this can be thoroughly and fairly investigated and diagnosed."

If I didn't do anything...the problem would just get worse. The floor isn't "rotting" but there does seem to have been a leak over the past few weeks, that ran down the hose, under the vinyl and soaked into the sub-floor.

We'll see what happens tomorrow with Lowe's, but good news is my brother (he's such a great guy!) did get the leak fixed. Water is back on and I can keep the water running tonight so the pipes don't freeze.

I'm sorry to hear about all of this. I wasn't aware that your husband was ill. The last thing you need is a dishwasher leak and a lowes runaround. Positive thoughts to you for swift and satisfactory resolution.

I'm sorry your going through this too and am glad to hear the leak is fixed. We had a similar situation with HD. The dishwasher was connected with the wrong part. Little leak...then they reconnect the still wrong part with super glue. A few weeks go by, superglue wears out and a big leak. It went back & forth between the delivery guys & HD, with no one taking responsibility. The delivery companies carry insurance to cover these events, although you may have to get Lowe's to put some pressure on them. They try to wear you out until you give up. We eventually got reimbursed but it took a letter to someone high up the chain at HD.
Best of luck, we're all here if you need to vent.

Kitten- Thank you, he's getting better and it's so nice to have him home!

Romy- Thanks for the insight. It might take some higher ups to settle this, but I'm still trying to work with the installer and Lowe's manager.

Update: I talked to Shane at Lowe's and he said the installer should come out and see what he thinks. As you all advised me, I said it would be better if he came out as well, since the installer would probably not want to pay for any repairs, without some third party encouragement.

So....we are supposed to have them both over early next week, to see the damage. Bottom line, my floor was not damaged before the dishwasher install and now it is. I'm not expecting (or asking for) a new kitchen...just a safe environment for my husband to stand in front of the sink without the floor collapsing.

I'll let you know how things go, but I did tell them I expected this to be resolved next week, since I need to be able to get my husband back in the kitchen ASAP. His therapists want him doing occupational therapy in there and I can't do it with the floor this way.

Update on dishwasher...no word from Shane on Monday or Tuesday, so I was about to call, when he called me. He said the installer had serious concerns over installing the dishwasher because of all the damage to our subfloor. Really? This was news to us.

I asked him if that were the case, why didn't the installer make a note of this (and ask us to initial and sign) or refuse to do the install? If he thought the flooring was unsafe, why didn't he say something and back it up with written documentation? I can't see under the dishwasher, but he didn't point anything out to me and there was no sub-floor damage to any areas I could or can see around the sink or dishwasher, when he installed the dishwasher.

Then, Shane wanted the Installer to come out here and I said, NO, I wanted Shane or another Lowe's person to come out and document the damage. It's been a VERY LONG YEAR and the last thing I need is some installer yelling at me as to why this is not his fault. I will not put myself in that position, out here in the middle of the country, no close neighbors and a sick husband and some potentially belligerent Installer.

Shane said it was the Installer's responsibility and I said, No Shane, it's Lowe's responsibility. My mom purchased the dishwasher for us at Lowe's, the Installer was chosen and sent out by Lowe's and now I wanted them to document the problem.

He agreed, but he's agreed in the past and it's been a week and a half and my husband still cannot go in the kitchen to do his therapy...and we don't even have an evaluation, yet.

So, I called Travor, an Assistant Store manager and emailed this post to him. He's going to talk to Shane and get someone out to document the damage. Of course, Travor said we should have had Lowe's send out a plumber to fix the damage....sheesh! That's why I started this post in the first place!

Thanks again for all your help and I'll let you all know what happens next. I appreciate your ideas and support. It's been yet another issue that should have been a great experience (new dishwasher) that's turned into a huge issue, taking time and energy away from all the other things I'm trying to get done for my husband and his recovery....

I'm sorry you have to go thru this lavender. What's wrong with customer service these days? It's sad that we have to become aggressive to get things done. I'm glad to hear you're sticking to your guns & taking control of the situation. I'm sorry your husband is getting the short end from all of this tho. It's so uncalled for. Keep at it. I know you'll get some resolution. I just hope it's sooner than later. Hang in there. Good thoughts coming your way.

Bicyclegirl- Thank you :)

Still no word from Lowe's today. I'm starting to wonder if they just want the floor to dry out enough that the damage will look older and they can claim it pre-existed the dishwasher installation. However, my husband's therapists both worked with him at the kitchen sink and there's no way that they could have done that with this floor. Still waiting...hopefully we get this resolved soon.

Lavender, sounds like you did a great job stating your case. It is Lowe's responsibility. You didn't choose the installer, they did. What a sleasy move by the installer.
I'm sorry your going through this but don't give up.

Did you take pictures lavender? If so, you can show them those. This is so ridiculous. It looks like you're going to have to be very aggressive to get this resolved. I know you live out in the country, but is there anyway you can show up at Lowe's & get face to face w/ a manager? Someone needs to take control of this & it shouldn't be you! It's ridiculous that they're being so lax about it. Don't give up.

This is precisely why an actual neutral third party plumber should have been called about the issue. Now it's as clear as mud if the old pipes are the issue or the new dishwasher. Lowes is responsible if the DW leaked, and you are responsible if it's your plumbing that leaked. You really still need an unbiased third party involved to resolve things. Call a plumber.

Hi Lavendar - no advice, just a hug to help you through this mess. One shouldn't have to waste a lot of time and evergy to get this resolved, and I am disgusted that Lowes (namely Shane) is making this so difficult for you.

I think it's time to move up the food chain again, and talk to the store manager. And ask for the name of a regional manager (or whoever is next up the line).

"He said the installer had serious concerns over installing the dishwasher because of all the damage to our subfloor. "

Well, with this statement he has incurred responsibility in the whole mess since he didn't discuss the problem with you.

You said your brother fixed the leak. What was it that was leaking?

Hope Lowes comes through soon. I have found them to be very good with customer service here. But that is a pretty big problem .... so the hands will probably be busy pointing fingers for a while.

This post was edited by snookums2 on Fri, Jan 17, 14 at 13:18

Shane called me and said that he and the installer will be out Monday. Supposedly there is no more 'he said/she said' but they will be out to make sure the leak is fixed and see how best to repair the damage. We will see how it goes....

Thanks for all your support and it has been a pain, but hopefully this will get fixed and my husband can go back to his therapy. At least the weather has been nice enough (low 40s during the day) that he's been able to go outside a bit. So nice to see some sunshine :)

Hi Lavender You may also want to give Lowe's Customer Care a call and explain your situation 1-800-445-6937.

Thanks Jancy!

Shane is supposed to come out around noon our time (PT) and bring the installer. I'll let you all know how it goes....I'm hoping to get this fixed right away and get my husband back to his therapy! Too cold/icy to go outside and he can't practice in the kitchen. Keeping my fingers crossed we don't have any more problems....

So, Shane from Lowe's and the Installer came out to the house this afternoon...and Shane was very nice, but the Installer was not.

We were told there would be no 'he said she said' and that the Installer was just here to make sure the leak was fixed. Instead, he tried argue with me and say that all the damage was there during his install...although he took no pictures, made no notes and said nothing to us at the time.

When I pointed this out and told Shane that there was no damage to the floor in front of the sink, before the install....the Installer said I was lying. Blatantly, not implied....she's lying. So, I asked him to leave my house and wait out by his truck.

Shane looked at the damage, said they would fix the subfloor in that area. He took pictures, measurements and said he would call us as soon as they were ready to replace the damage.

So, we'll see how quickly we can get this done. I need to get my husband back to his occupational therapy, which includes the kitchen. We've had problems with our insurance in the past, wanting him to show 'adequate progress' so I'm hoping we can get this repaired by the end of the week.

Wow. I think you did the right thing, suggesting he wait outdoors. I think you've handled yourself well through this whole thing, and I'm sorry for the stress you and DH have gone through.

I hope they come through for you and resolve it quickly.

Mudhouse- Thank you!

I might be asking for your help with a kitchen inspiration page later....didn't you do the ones for Tinker? Those were beautiful :)

Lavender, I didn't find Tinker's first thread until it had almost reached the 150 post mark, and by then she'd had wonderful help from almost everyone here! All I did in her second thread was to re-work some of the elements I had saved from a previous golden oak board, following suggestions that folks brought up in the thread.

I was really just helping Tinker visualize some of the good ideas tossed out by others, but thank you for the complement. :-)

Fingers crossed Lowes comes through for you...sooner rather than later.

Glad this is working out for you Lavender. Hopefully, knowing your husband's need for therapy in the kitchen, they'll take care of it right away.

I'm glad to hear Lowe's is stepping up to the plate. Stay on top of them if Shane doesn't get back to you soon, but as romy said, hopefully they'll get on it knowing the urgency to get your husband back in there.

Well, some of you were right. Shane at Lowe's called this morning to tell me they felt they had NO responsibility for the leak, although he told me last week they would take care of it and the installer should have documented any problems. Since he didn't, Lowe's would make sure our floor was repaired.

Instead, Shane is saying they have no responsibility for the problem...but they would drop off 'materials' so I could fix it myself. I have no way to cut up the floor and replace damaged sub-floor.

Putting a piece of plywood over the problem (basically a 4' x 6' patch) is not conducive to my husband using the kitchen with a walker...let alone his therapy.

I am very disappointed with Lowe's. I have always praised their customer service and purchased many of my garden and home items there. In fact, the garden center employees have asked ME questions about plants.

My next step seems to be contacting a regional manager. I'll have to get an estimate on the repair work now, myself...and have them reimburse me. They don't seem to want to take car of this themselves. Very disappointing.......

I was rereading the earlier posts and saw Jancy's suggestion...so I just called the number that was provided for Lowe's customer care. I talked to a very nice gal, who said she would have someone from upper management call me within 24 hours....and that she appreciated me calling and giving them the opportunity to make this right.

So, we'll see what happens. Thanks to all of you for the information and expertise. I do appreciate it!

Please, oh PLEASE tell us that you took pictures of the onset of the damage, the leak itself (that your brother fixed; before and after?) and (likely didn't but maybe) have kept dated, timed notes of your conversations with Shane!

If the installer didn't tell you about existing damage and have you sign a waiver or give you a written disclamer; or didn't suggest (much less insist) on replacing the worn, brittle supply hose (I assume you did mean the supply hose to the dishwasher?) then I do think he is liable.

If the hose you mean is not the DW supply hose, and he didn't work with it directly to install the DW, then your case is much weaker -- working around old fittings can have unintended consequences later that he isn't necessarily responsible for, I think.

You have got to start getting things in writing, or document it yourself. Corporations are notorious for denying responsibility for things their employees tell customers to make a sale or get a contract etc. If it wasn't in writing, it didn't happen.

Start thinking in terms of proving your case in small claims court.

If you can point to the installer directly causing the leak (Ie reusing old water supply hose to the DW) then you need to call farther up the COC at Lowes, and also I would call the manufacturer of the dishwasher, just to tell them that it wasn't installed to specs (check your manual to see if it says to use new hose) and now you have damage.

Don't give up. Do they have Yelp, Angie's List, Google+ in your area? Use them (or threaten to).

No appliance store will even install a DW or washing machine without the purchase of new supply hoses. And, both come with a brand new drain hose. Those aren't the issue and never were. It's the home's existing plumbing that was always the issue. A DW installs directly to the DW outlet on a disposal like this where the black hose goes into the GD.

With the new hoses, there is almost zero chance that they leaked. That only leaves the home's existing plumbing to cause the leak.

Hollysprings- We don't have a garbage disposal...and it doesn't look like the second picture, either. As I've said, it was the water line and how the installer pulled on it, while installing the dishwasher. Umm....do you work at Lowe's?

LL, have you called your home-owners insurance? That is probably where you should have started. They can go after the installer's bond, etc... But, to get it fixed at this point, that is what you probably need to do. And, let them fight with the installer who should have been licensed, insured and bonded.

good luck!

I don't know how you can say the parts were new so it couldn't have been the new dishwasher installation. I had a master plumber install a new tub. When a leak became apparent shortly after, of course he started talking about old pipes. Funny it developed right after the tub was installed. Then he finds he didn't tighten the waste drain. So not only did I get a new bathtub but he simultaneously installed a shower downstairs.

Despite all the questions and comments, I never did see an explanation of what Shane and the installer think caused the leak. Was a new hose put on? That should be standard procedure. When we remodeled our kitchen and guest bath, we upgraded all our plumbing fittings. Same when we got a new washer and dryer. I can't tell who or what is to blame from the information given.

This post was edited by may_flowers on Sat, Jan 25, 14 at 12:29

If you don't get satisfaction from upper management, it may be time for a lawyer's letter. It's amazing what just a letter can do. I hope you have pictures and other documentation to support your claim.

" I can't tell who or what is to blame from the information given."

Me neither, yet some who have heard only one side of this story can.

"Drop off materials so I can fix it." If they are dropping off free materials they are accepting some responsibility. If they are accepting some, they should be responsible for all.
You might remind them that you are being reasonable & fair and only want to have the floor damage repaired that was caused by the new dishwasher install. You are not looking for reimbursement for possible mold damage or damages for the delay in your husband's therapy.
Be persistent. It took us 4 months & a threat of pursuing subfloor & mold damage to get HD to send us a check for $150 to cover our cost to have a plumber to replace the incorrect fitting their installer used. It wasn't that we desperately needed the $150. Their installer screwed up & they didn't want to take responsibility. It was clear they just wanted to wear us out until we gave up.

Romy- Thank you. My husband said the same thing, when they offered 'free materials'.

After I called the Customer Care number, Travor (Shane's boss) called Saturday and had a long talk with my husband. We'll see what happens, but it sounds like Shane and the Installer have been a little creative with their recollection of events.

As for only seeing one side of the story, I emailed Travor the link to this post over a week ago.

What did Shane and the installer say caused the leak? You say a hose or pipe was brittle that the installer should have noticed. Did anyone else look at it as advised? It seems that every question that can determine fault goes unanswered. Comments are ignored. Is this post just to document the sequence of events or to put pressure on Lowe's?

In business terms, a "good will gesture" does not admit fault. It says that the customer's business is valuable enough that they are willing to help them out, but that they are not at fault for the situation.

If you feel Lowes is at fault, then your insurance company can fight it out with theirs. It's really simple. Just call them to get the claim started, and they will send their own remediation expert out to determine fault and go after Lowes if their install is the reason that you have damaged floors. Either way, if Lowes is at fault, or it's your faulty plumbing, the situation is taken care of. Unless this was a situation of long standing neglect. Then, no insurance company will reimburse you for that, yours or Lowes.

Homeowner's insurance should be your last resort - if your insurance company pays out they will raise your rates and/or drop you for being a bad risk. You should definitely pursue this directly with Loewe's, possibly with a lawyer if necessary. They installed a new DW which flooded your floors. Even if you can't get satisfaction from Loewe's, think long and hard about going through your insurance. Home insurance is good for catastrophic issues - anything else and you're likely to get screwed in the long run.

I'd like to know how your brother fixed it too. I hope you took pictures or had an outside party witness anything that was found. I'm not sure what "pulling on" something means and that could be hard to prove.

I think it's odd to favor a previous issue over a faulty install or dw in that the problem occurred or became apparent to the HO only after the new machine was installed. They were unaware of any leaks and the installer said and documented absolutely nothing.

Now he claims there was an existing problem. So what idjut would simply install a new dishwasher over soggy flooring in need of repair or dry-out, without raising the issue of a leak with the HO first. I think that is negligent, irresponsible and wreckless on his part. If there was an active leak prior to install, why didn't he report it?

I would think it would be SOP for an installer to run the machine to make sure it isn't leaking before leaving the premises, in order to check their work and that the machine was running properly.

I wonder if LL had any discussions at all with the installer while he was there.

Whether Lowe's fixes the sub-floor or not, we're having a bigger issue with the Installer and Shane. We've taken the issue to the district manager and the store manager called us today (left a message) to say she was taking care of it.

No, I wouldn't contact my home insurance over this, since after that truck hit our house two years ago (uninsured motorist of course) and cost thousands of dollars, I'm not going to make another complaint for something like this....as Weissman explains above.

This started as a leak, which could easily have been handled, if the person responding had known what to do. Instead, it's now become a separate issue, which I want to give Lowe's management the chance to address.

Thanks for the advice and comments. I'll let you know what happens.

What did you end up doing? Lowes instqllwd a washer, which I realized has been slowly leaking for the past year. We run it with a large load every 2-3 weeks and didn't know until tonight.