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kitchen4six

Kitchen layout, after a 6 month reprieve

dietitian
9 years ago

Okay! I was on a few months ago trying to figure out my kitchen. I have a new layout based on the very helpful suggestions of lavender_lass, beuhl & lascatx.

This week, I turned my kitchen table to be an adjacent continuation of my puny island. I am loving it! So I have incorporated it into my plan. Please, feel free to critique. I want to get this right!

What I like about the dining table adjacent to island- the kids are right there! I make a plate, and hand it over- no walking! It also frees up the wall that was previously blocked by the table so I can have A LOT of storage.

I was unable to get the sink on the island to show... my apologies.

Comments (21)

  • practigal
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You are planning on having six chairs around the table? If this is in anyway to scale it would not appear that the chairs could be pulled out from the table. Please doublecheck....

  • Mistman
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I didn't see the initial plan but I have a couple questions/comments regarding the current one. Seems the baking center and wall ovens are quite a distance apart, could the wall ovens go in place of the kids pantry? I think if it were me I would rotate the island 90 deg, put the prep sink on the fridge side and put the range where the wall ovens are. That way stuff comes from the fridge to prep area to stove top without the island/wall ovens being in the way. Then you could center the table more into the room. I think currently it may be a bit close to the counter/patio door. Not sure what the measurements are between features but just judging from the depth of the counter (~24") it seems the isles are a bit tight, especially if planning seating in that area. I would probably rotate both the kitchen table and island and offset them by about 4" or more if possible. I'm not a fan of having the main sink and range that close together, potential for lots of clutter, especially if using the sink while cooking. There may be reasons why you've done what you have and sometimes you just have to do the best you can with what you have (like range on exterior wall for venting). My suggestion are more of an 'ideal' for how I would use the kitchen.

  • avntgardnr
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I was going to say the same as practigal....I forget the standard spacing for a table/island with chairs but it doesn't look like you've accounted for that on the table side closest to the counters.
    You might have to move the island and table further into the middle of the room.
    How often do you use the "baking center" more or less often than the coffee/micro area? Seems like the coffee/micro is so far away from everything else and you have the large divider of the island/table in between you will be doing a lot of walking back and forth. (but I like my coffee maker right next to me, ha)

    Which side of the island will your sink be...this will be your main sink? prep sink? If it's opposite the fridge, I would also rethink because I find myself going back and forth to the fridge and sink quite often. But you also want the sink close to your stove because of filling and emptying pots of water...you won't want to be carrying those back and forth - at least I wouldn't want to be.
    Last, will you be creating congestion at the end of the island where the oven is? If your oven doors are open you will not be able to pass - not that one stands there with the doors open for long periods of time but if you're baking cookies,etc there's a lot of opening and closing of doors.

    Is there a dishwasher? Is it close to your wash-up sink and storage for ease of putting things away?

    I'm just going off of how I like my things set up..did not see your previous plans. Good luck!

  • dietitian
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    OOPS! you are all correct, I mistakenly drew the island/table 42" from the wall, not the cabinetry. I will fix that and upload a new pic. Obviously the island will have to move over & become smaller :(

    The dishwasher is to the right of the sink on the perimeter wall. I will label that as well.

    With my pantry on the far wall, it would feel kind of like a galley type kitchen, other than the fridge being opposite the island. I have worked in my mother's kitchen which is set up more like a double galley and it seems to work nicely.

    I feel like with the long narrow kitchen that I have to work with, some things have to give. I can't have everything I want. There are many entrances and exits to my kitchen which do not allow for a more continuous space.

    @mistman, rotating the island might be something to think about, but it does make the island much smaller. Currently my fridge resides where it is shown in the plans and it works fine. i take stuff out, put it on the island, and prep there. having a sink on the island for prep will make it much easier for me as well.

  • sjhockeyfan325
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You can do it if you don't mind being unable to get by, but 42" with chairs is simply too narrow.

    Personally (having had this setup once before), I would also switch your cleanup sink and dw with the double ovens to get the cleanup sink out of the prep area. If you're standing at the island opening the dw is at worst impossible and at best very annoying.

  • DIY2Much2Do
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The cabinet to the left of the double ovens seems like a major intrusion to the entrance of the diagonal hallway.

  • funkycamper
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am also in the middle of planning a remodel of a puny kitchen. We recently removed the wall between kitchen and dining area and I love it so much better. I used to feel like I was being sent off to solitary confinement when I was in the kitchen. No more. It's great, isn't it? Even if your kitchen doesn't actually move into the extra space, it just feels so much bigger.

    Here's the recommendations for seating allowances. If you always have the kids sit on the side outside the work area, non-cooking adults sit at the end of the table or on the working side closest the door to patio, and the cook sits down on the working side when done cooking, and the aisle is the minimum for walk-past clearance, you should be fine. I wouldn't squeeze that table any closer for safety.

    How about turning just the table the other way so the island/table make an L. This would get most seating out of the work space. I'm unclear on measures/clearances but it seems you would have enough width on that end.

    {{gwi:2135518}}

  • dietitian
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    thank you funky camper for that info. I have it now at 4ft 1in. which shows it is good for walking past.

    I have also flipped the kitchen and made the table a 4 person table and added 2 countertop chairs. I switched out the fridge too and moved the pantry to be a walk-in pantry in the corner of the "L". Now, all my fridge, pantry, prep sink, cooktop are within easy reach.

    also, i lengthened the sink to reflect what (I think) I want- a galley sink!

  • funkycamper
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A couple of things I see (although I'm not one of the GW experts):

    Many suggest that the prep sink be on the same stretch of counter as the cooktop so you aren't carrying food across the floor from sink to stove and spilling items or just plain dripping moisture onto your floor.

    It's usually not recommended to have the DW between a sink and the cooktop. If someone is unloading/loading the DW and the cook needs that sink, they're blocked. And it's nice to be able to leave the DW open so dirty items can be immediately put into it instead of in the sink. I think you should move DW to the other side of the sink. To make that work, you'll need to move the range further to the right.

    Those galley sinks are really cool but it's cutting your counter space for prepping. I would rather have a smaller sink and more counter. Your bigger sink should be your clean-up sink, not your prep sink.

    I hope someone else pops in and either confirms my thoughts or gives you better advice.

  • funkycamper
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A couple of things I see (although I'm not one of the GW experts):

    Many suggest that the prep sink be on the same stretch of counter as the cooktop so you aren't carrying food across the floor from sink to stove and spilling items or just plain dripping moisture onto your floor.

    It's usually not recommended to have the DW between a sink and the cooktop. If someone is unloading/loading the DW and the cook needs that sink, they're blocked. And it's nice to be able to leave the DW open so dirty items can be immediately put into it instead of in the sink. I think you should move DW to the other side of the sink. To make that work, you'll need to move the range further to the right.

    Those galley sinks are really cool but it's cutting your counter space for prepping. I would rather have a smaller sink and more counter. Your bigger sink should be your clean-up sink, not your prep sink.

    I hope someone else pops in and either confirms my thoughts or gives you better advice.

  • sena01
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm no expert either and not sure about the dimensions of the kitchen, but would this work for you?

    {{gwi:2135519}}

    You'll probably have a smaller pantry, but I think you'll have wider ailes behind both table and island seating in this arrangement. I believe the aisle b/w the side of the table and kid's pantry/dish+silverware storage doesn't have to be as wide as the one you'd need when you had the fridge on that wall.

    For the patio door another alternative can be pocket doors.

    [{{gwi:2135520}}[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/addition-remodel-of-historic-house-in-palo-alto-contemporary-kitchen-san-francisco-phvw-vp~306734)

    [Contemporary Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/contemporary-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2103) by Oakland Architects & Building Designers Cathy Schwabe Architecture

    [{{gwi:2135521}}[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/presidio-heights-pueblo-revival-kitchen-traditional-kitchen-san-francisco-phvw-vp~206381)

    [Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by San Francisco Architects & Building Designers Gast Architects

  • dietitian
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    sena01: Love those doors in the pics!!! Will definitely look into that!

    the only thing that concerns me in your layout- and by the way, thank you for that- helps so much to see that kind of 3d visual- is that when opening the oven, kids could be running in from outside and get hurt. any other ideas for where the oven could be placed more inside the "L"?

    funkycamper: I get that some appliances are not ideally placed, but I just don't know how to get everything in the "perfect" spot AAAARGHH! so frustrating! I am trying to get the most important things in the work area. fridge, prep sink, cooktop, ovens, pantry.

  • sena01
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    when opening the oven, kids could be running in from outside and get hurt.

    Omitted to add in my previous post, but that was my concern about the fridge in your last layout.

    I imagined kids running from the homework room to tell you something or for a glass of water and blindly making a sharp turn to an open fridge door. So, I thought, if fridge and oven were in an open area (hopefully with a 5,5-6' aisle in front of them), anyone coming from the hallway or outside will be able to see the open door and have enough time to adjust their speed, and you'll be able to see them and warn them before they come too close. But you know your kids best, of course.

    I tried to come up with other alternatives.

    This may work if you keep anything the kids may need on the right side of the kitchen, though all tall apliances would block the light from the patio door.

    {{gwi:2135522}}

    This one may be slightly better in terms of light coming from the patio doors, but you no longer have a sink on the rangetop counter.

    {{gwi:2135523}}

  • funkycamper
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh, I REALLY like Sena's first plan in the post at 11:48. It seems to solve all your issues. I think it looks functional and attractive.

    I know what you mean about struggling for best function, having to compromise, etc. Have been doing that with my own plan.

  • Jillius
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'd never heard of a "galley sink," but they are awesome! In looking them up, I see that they are often installed right next to or very close to the cooktop. It looked weird at first, but it makes sense given how they are essentially your prep counter. And you'd want a prep counter next to your cooktop.

    As it seemed that the galley you're interested in is large enough for two people to work at, it certainly can function simultaneously as your clean-up sink and your prep sink.

    So with that in mind, here is a suggestion:

    {{gwi:2135524}}

    Keep in mind that, though the cooktop and galley sink look as if you don't have much prep space between the two, essentially the sink is your prep space. So if only one cook is in the kitchen, that is 5' of prep space on the sink + 3' of counter next to the cooktop = 8' of prep space. Or if there are two people at the sink, the one on the right has 30" of prep space on the sink + 3' of counter to the right = 5.5' feet of prep space. And the one on the left has (if cooking) 30" of prep space on the sink + 4' of counter to the left = 6.5' of prep space or (if cleaning) 30" of sink + 4' of counter = 6.5' of cleaning space. That is PLENTY.

    This initially started because I was excited about your galley sink, and it sounds as if you were too, and I wanted you to have it. But also with that, I was concerned about your aisle widths. They are technically within reason, but given how many doors you have in and out of your kitchen, it really just looks as if you need wider aisles all around the island/table so people aren't running to each other/things.

    1) So I gave you wider aisles and also got rid of that weird jutting out bit of wall next to the basement door. The latter made a big difference to how well the island/table fit.

    2) Because wide walkways seem to be called for, it poses a dilemma for the island. If it is to be a major player in regular prepping, an especially wide walkway in the work zone would put the island uncomfortably far from the cooktop on the perimeter.

    To address this, I put the galley sink on the perimeter (so the island wouldn't be your major prep station -- the galley sink would). And then instead of an island, I gave you a big workhorse-type kitchen table, which would be fine to have a bit farther away from the perimeter. You won't be going back and forth between the cooktop and the table a whole bunch.

    Those big tables are really handy as an extra large expanse of surface when you are laying out cooling racks or any other big elements of a project. And they're great for social things like gathering the kids around and decorating cookies or making gingerbread houses or whatever. And, of course, they are great for seating everybody in a place handy to the kitchen. And those tables are also nice as a nice place to sit down while you peel a million apples or whatever time consuming activity might not be so fun to do on your feet.

    But those tables aren't meant to be your main prep station (no sink, usually not counter height), so it's not a big deal to have the table pushed a bit farther away than you'd want an island.

    Here are some examples:

    (Most of these do not have wide enough walkways around the table by a long shot, but you get the idea.)

    {{gwi:2135525}}

    {{gwi:2135526}}

    {{gwi:2135527}}

    3) Another benefit of a table is that it costs way less than an island. That would help you pay for the galley sink. :)

    4) The layout you posted looks like a very dark kitchen with its one little window. I gave you a big, centrally-located window for maximum light penetration.

    5) I have grouped non-cooking activities in one location outside the main work zone. So people can come in, get a bowl/plate/glass/fork/spoon/etc., get something from the fridge or freezer or pantries, and use the microwave without ever entering the major work zones. It would make sense to have the coffee maker on the counter next to the fridge too.

    6) The dishes are also handy to the dishwasher, so unloading will be fast and easy.

    7) Your ovens are now next to the baking zone, which is much handier, and the ovens are placed where it would be unlikely that someone would run into them by accident.

    8) The cooktop is on an exterior wall for easy venting.

    9) I am picturing the pantries being used for snacks and things that aren't really used in the cooking/baking area. It would make more sense to store the cooking ingredients (flour, sugar, spices, oils, vinegars, etc.) in the upper cabinets of the baking zone.

    This post was edited by Jillius on Tue, Jan 27, 15 at 15:46

  • dietitian
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jillius! Thank you! I was actually thinking of nixing the galley because maybe it was a bad idea to put a 4' sink in the island. with it on the perimeter it makes much more sense! I might even go larger! Your plan makes a lot of sense, but it definitely changes a lot about what I was thinking my kitchen would be. The whole thought of 2 sinks, an island... we all have that as a given in our minds because that is what the adverts have.... but is that really the best??? I am going to print out your plan and let it percolate. I really appreciate everyone thinking outside the box- it helps tremendously.

  • dietitian
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    okay... tried to mesh the two plans... thoughts?

  • nanomug
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Islands are more expensive because they usually have cabinetry under them. A built in table at counter height with the same counter would add more flexibility of use.

    The benefit of a long island rather than a table is the large workspace for meal prep. We did this when we remodeled our kitchen. We removed the kitchen table, extended the peninsula and went bar height for the eating area. It allows the work area to stay work and the eating area for eating, homework and general seating.

  • dietitian
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    nanomug do you have a pic of your kitchen you could post? would love to get a visual. Thanks!

  • lyfia
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Do you really need seating for 6 there and an island? Looks like your dining is very near. 6 ft is the minimum for 3, but in reality feels cramped. It seems to me like you are trying to fit too many things in or just want an island without it necessary making sense. With stove and sink on the outer wall it appears the natural spot to prep will be between the sink and the stove on the perimeter. I also see a baking center. I'm thinking if you stick with the island there then that would be a better baking surface for you. At least I like to have a deeper counter when I bake. I'd use the space for more pantry space instead.

  • dietitian
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    lyfia: I really do need the table, yes. the dining room is nearby but we do use our kitchen table for lots of things, and with 4 kids, I do need it to be a table that seats 6.

    LOL in the trying to fit too many things into the kitchen. It is so hard! I agree with the baking surface being the island. I do need a place for my kitchen aid mixer and magic mill bread dough mixer, though, which can't be the island.

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