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verynewcook

Basic rules of layout- measuring 3 points?

verynewcook
16 years ago

I have found references on the forum to measuring 3 points. I believe it relates to the cooking triangle (sink, fridge, range) Is there a general rule of thumb about maximum distances between these three points? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Comments (7)

  • Buehl
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Actually, I think it refers to measurements in general. When you measure your area, measure from 3 points b/c walls, floors, and ceilings are rarely straight/level. When you order cabinets, you need to be sure you have the smallest measurement so you don't have cabinets that are too wide...e.g., say a wall measure 100" at the floor level but only 97" at 30" up from the floor, if you've ordered, 100" worth of cabinets, they won't fit. Similarly for the upper cabinets. Hopefully, you won't have that much of a difference, but you never know...especially older homes!

  • Buehl
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I just realized that I didn't answer your last question!

    There's no "hard and fast" rule, but there are recommendations from the NKBA (National Kitchen & Bath Association). Item #3 addresses work center distances. It says:

    In a kitchen with three work centers* the sum of the three traveled distances should total no more than 26 with no single leg of the triangle measuring less than 4Â nor more than 9Â.

    When the kitchen plan includes more than three primary appliance/work centers, each additional travel distance to another appliance/work center should measure no less than 4Â nor more than 9Â.

    Each leg is measured from the center-front of the appliance/sink.

    No work triangle leg intersects an island/peninsula or other obstacle by more than 12".

    Remember, as with all guidelines, these are just that...guidelines. Design your kitchen for what works for you!

    HTH!

  • verynewcook
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks that is very helpful. I am really struggling with layout. Any thoughts on putting a gas range and hood in the corner of a kitchen to save space for lots of windows?

  • Buehl
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Those who have done it, as I recall, have erected an angled wall behind the range to put the range & hood against. See the Finished Kitchen's Blog link below for one person's kitchen who did just that. (If you click on her picture link, and "view" the album, the 9th picture is a closeup of the corner range.)


    ***** Some helpful advice on Kitchen Remodels *****


    First step: Take the "Sweeby Test" It will help you define what it is you want out of your remodel (besides new "things").

    Next, evaluate your current kitchen...what works, what doesn't AND what do you like, what don't you like (not always the same thing!) How many people will be working in the kitchen? Do you have children? These are just a few of the questions to ask yourself. See Beginning a Kitchen Plan

    While doing the above... Think about and set your budget. Keep 10% to 15% in reserve for emergencies...those unexpected surpirses like insect damage, unsafe floors, etc. When walls are opened up or floors pulled up, you sometimes find unexpected situations...sometimes good, but probably not so good!

    Design

    Layout: Once you've figured out what it is you want from your new kitchen, it's time to start thinking about the layout itself.

    * The best place to start is to draw up your kitchen (to scale, if possible) without cabinets & appliances. This means measuring everything...walls, ceiling height, widths of doors & windows, distances between windows, walls, doorways, etc.

    * If you cannot move plumbing or gas, mark them on your drawing as well.

    * Mark all doorways & windows (w/dimensions) and label them as to where they lead. If they're actual doors, mark how they swing.

    * It also would be helpful to see the connecting rooms, even layouts so you see how they interact with the kitchen and/or extend the kitchen feel and flow.

    Make a list of things like:

    * What is your goal E.g., more counter space, more storage, seating in the kitchen (island? peninsula? table?), etc.

    * Do you plan to merge two rooms/areas (e.g., Nook and Kitchen into a Kitchen only)

    * Where are you flexible?
    .....Can windows or doorways change size?
    .....Can they be moved?
    .....Can windows be raised/lowered?
    .....Can any walls come down?
    .....Does the sink have to be centered under a window?
    .....Does it have to be under a window at all?

    * Do you bake? Do you want a coffee/tea/beverage center?

    * What appliances do you plan on having (helps to figure out work flow, work zones, and types of cabinets...upper/lower vs full height, etc.)
    .....Range or Cooktop?
    .....Single or Double or no Wall Oven?
    .....Warming Drawer?
    .....MW? (Advantium, drawer, OTR, countertop, built-in, shelf?)
    .....DW? Standard or drawers? If drawers, 1 or 2?
    .....Refrigerator CD or standard depth?
    .....Vent Hood?
    .....Other?
    Sizes of desired appliances (e.g., 30" or 36" or 48" cooktop; 36" or 42" or 48" wide or other Refrigerator? etc.)

    * Pantry: Walk-in or cabinets?

    ***** Very Important *****

    Is there anything you:
    * Can't live without?
    * Definitely don't want?
    * Would like if we can find a way?

    This information will be valuable to not only you, but also any Kitchen Designers you may hire or talk to. Additionally, if you've been haunting the site, you'll notice that we also help with almost all aspects of the remodel, including layout help.

    If you do ask for help, then all of the above information will help us help you. Sometimes we stray from what you think you want to give you some ideas that you might not have thought of, but it's your kitchen and you can veto anything...we may argue for something (we're good at that!), but in the end it's what you want. And remember, nothing is ever cast in stone here and in the end when you finalize your design it's whatever you want and decide on! After all, this is your kitchen!

    Good luck and welcome to the Kitchens Forum!

    Links that might be helpful:

    Sweeby Test

    Kitchen Forum FAQ

    Kitchen Forum Acronyms

    Beginning a Kitchen Plan

    Finished Kitchens Blog

    Appliances Forum

  • mom2lilenj
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sorry for butting in, but buehl WOW! What great advice!

  • Buehl
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks Mom2lilenj! But, I have to give credit where credit is due...99% of what I talked about I've gleaned from this forum. I came on board an innocent lamb in July '07 and have learned so much from you and the rest over the last 6 months...and it's been fun! I really enjoy this!

    Thanks again, btw, for all your help on my layout!

  • jakkom
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm one of those people who emphasize measuring 3 points on EVERY wall. The reason? We gutted our cottage in a total remodel in 1989. To squeeze in every inch of space, I used frameless cabs and no filler strips.

    But walls just aren't even. And dimensions of appliances change over time - in this case, they've gotten bigger when it comes to refrigs and stoves.

    So I'd love to put in a Bluestar range. But guess what - I'm short by 1/8". Yup, a lousy one-eighth of an inch. I can fit a 29-7/8" range - EXACTLY. Not a millimeter more!

    To get that extra 1/8", I'd have to move six cabinets and completely rework my refrig space as well. Obviously, not worth it...but it kills me to be short by so little.........uggghh!

    Note that some folks have complained their KDs used too many filler strips - so you don't want to go overboard in either direction, be forewarned.

    Good luck! And Buehl, that is a killer job of summarizing important kitchen remodeling points that should be included in the FAQ. Great job!