Well noted plllog. Yes you are dead on the time sequence.

I was to leave on Saturday and stay over until Sunday but the young couple we were having over changed plans and could not come over Saturday night so I raced to her house Friday night for the change of plans. Actually, my Aunt was just so good about it. Nice to see these days.

Whoops, plllog, no I didn't think to measure inside as I just assumed its 24 inch wide by 24 inch high like the IKEA. But being the inquisitive little Oven Detectives that we've both become, I'm going to ask my Aunt to get in there with a measuring tape tomorrow because the curiosity will kill us :)

Plllog just before I retire to Bedfordshire for the night, I can't resist telling this one. While I had really a special intimate moment with my Aunt (The Nice), last night was sheer Hell and maybe the worst X-Mas night of my entire life (The Not So Nice!).

So, I went sleep., on the living room floor on a little pad. It is the 1st time in my life I actually slept over at her Apt. It's a very nice, Senior's Apt with one bedroom and really not suited to guesting. After turning out the lights at 2:15 A. m. I heard the continuous TICKING sound which came from the Electric Heating Floor Rads that were against the wall and within 4 feet of my ears. I have hot water Rads which are absolutely noiseless. So, I tried to ignore the non-stop ticking noise and the roar of the refrigerator motor which kicked in every 1/2 hour, but just could not.

I kept my eyes closed, my mind tossing and turning and thinking about Milk Paint, Green ovens, strange 28 inch sized induction cooktops, stencils, cookware. Oh yes, the whole story. Finally, I was dying to know what time it was after literally just having my eyes closed for all these hours but technically I was wide awake, and i saw the numbers 7 a.m. on the VCR. Then like a smart cat, I said enough is enough and came up with a sleep plan. I got up, turned the heating in the Apartment right off! and Woallah END OF TICKING!!! I began my X-Mas sleep at 7 a.M. and woke up at 2 PM Saturday. My lovely Aunt was so understanding and was not affected by the lack of heat in the morning.

Yeah.

Woallah? Is that anything like woolly?

What an Auntie!! My mother gets very upset when I turn down the "chamsin" (hot dry wind). Very nice of her to let you sleep in the kind of cold y'all have up there!! Empathy on the ticking. In my case it was the big clock on the desk. Which I put in the laundry basket in the coat closet to go to sleep. Got a call about a week later asking if I'd seen said clock... ;-)

I hope you all, and Marthavila's sister too, have had a lovely holiday.

solman - glad you had a good holiday. Have only dabbled in yoga a bit, but like the idea of the flexibility and breathing exercises.

The nearest Boston Market is over an hour away, but creamed spinach is easy. The most important ingredient is the dash of fresh nutmeg. Thanks for the comment about the good cooking. We watched Julie and Julie a few days ago and I did some reading on the background of the movie. That lead to reading cooking blogs and somewhere in there found a disdainful comment that cooks like me are "assemblers" who basically depend on putting together good ingredients rather that "real" cooking. Okay, but the result is great.

Do you need a Visa? It's been several years, but I didn't need one to go to Canada. In fact, we were there to do business and the immigration clerk rolled out a welcome mat in the form of a big smile and cheery greeting.

It's a little cold here today, but I will ride the bike soon. I'll have to go out early in the day as my street is a favorite of Lance wannabes who will run me down. Far from excess, my new bike is from Walmart. It replaces a very nice Trek, but it's really all I need to get around the neighborhood.

ROTFL!!!! Stef, that remark about the "assemblers" is a hoot! Yeah, a real cook uses inferior ingredients (see tamales and fajitas), and an "assembler" can afford food that is good enough to stand on it's own. Right. Sure. Or maybe someone who can make a great soup is a good enough cook not to mess with a good piece of meat. I always freak out when they salt meat before cooking on TV. All that does is dry it out! A really good piece of meat shouldn't need sauce or seasoning, and if you like the taste of sauce and salt, that's what the Heinz bottle and shaker on the table are for, but don't wreck the meat for everybody with it. (Sorry, almost veg Solman. I went through that phase a long time ago and came out the other side.) But fresh veg need even less cookery than meat. Some profit from blanching or steaming, but most are great cleaned off and cut up, period. Making real fajita meat fit to eat is a long, involved process, and the whole thing takes a good cook. Not sure it's what that snob was thinking about, though. :)

I'm getting back in bed where it's warm...

Same reaction here. I prefer to purchase good raspberry jam for the trifle rather than making it myself. I did go through a phase where I tried to make everything, but that didn't last long. I gave up on the fajita meat and buy it ready to grill from one of our local markets. Reliable, good tasting results are important.

BTW, the movie is Julie and Julia. Proofreading isn't enough sometimes. The movie was fun and I was surprised to find the foodies were so negative about it.

Went through a veg phase for a while, too. Now we mix it up more.

Enjoy your nap.

Hey Stef,

Well the man is up and alive and invigorated with sleep once again.

Last night i closed all the thick velvet bedroom curtains and created absolute darkness for my sleep. No such ticking foolishness in my ear. Thank God.

So, while our little Morning Lark is off on a Cat Nap (how ironic is that?) Is she a bird/cat wannabe?

Now here's what I'm examining today, while snow flurries are pouring down in the window beside me. Basically it's down to 2 candidates. Color being the same, so race is not an issue LOL! White. Oh and even in the same family, the Kohler's.

1) 18 x24 Self Rimming

no faucet deck

-yes looks more stylish BUT means Mr. Portland wold need to be drilled through the tile. This means another issue that the faucet would have to be drilled dead centre of the 4x4 Talaveras since physically and visually you wouldn't want the faucet on a grout line.

rim looks- definite rim dropped onto tile.

size- gives you extra 3 inches counter space on either side of the center of window.

2) Tile in 21 x30 inch

-if I understand, it will tile right up to edge of sink so it is a flush and continuous and there is no rim on the tile surface? Thus you sort of get the under mount effect of uninterrupted counter to sink look.

-Deck may help contain water dripping behind sink and in the "Hidden Valley" behind the counter. Will also mean no drilling into tile and centering grout line issues. By the way, does water ever gather at the base of faucets?

3 inches less counter space on either side of window.

If Tile In 21 x 30 inch, how many holes? Comes either as 3 or 4. Plate or no plate? Sprayer or no sprayer.

What's our vote?

I found this photo from our Faucet Party.

Now, this is a brain stumper. Is this Tile In or a self rimming with tile on top?

Now if tile in, does it mean that the 4x4 inch tiles will run right up to the metal frame of the sink? If so, will the outside edge of the 4x4's along the perimeter be visible? Because they are just raw unfinished edges with yellow glazing on top, If that makes sense.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kohler Tile In sink.

Hello there solman. Thought you were taking the day to sleep off the sleepless night. Sounds like you are doing much better now.

I did a little research on the tile in sink and find very inconsistent info. The product photos mostly show the sink without the tile. The one pictured above won't work for you because of the unglazed edges. There are some that fit flush with the tops of the tile and I think that's what you need. I had a sink like the one in the link for a while and the water does pool in the grout next to the metal rim. This causes the grout to erode around the sink. I don't like the looks of it either. We need to find a sink that fits flush with the tile and has a faucet deck if it exists.

Off to do more research.

plllog- I just looked at your sink The Entree and it says tile in. But with my Bakersfield it shows a silly metal frame with description as Tile In/Metal Frame.

So the question is, is this "metal frame" supposed to show? Ewww. And a proper Tile In sink must have square corners, but this Bakersfield has conventional round corners. I'm confused. Obviously that would look ugly trying to cut rounded tiles to meet the rounded corners. Hope you have the answer to this mystery of sink-kind.

Here is a link that might be useful: Supposed Tile In Sink

Thanks Steff.

I agree, we need the Tile In, but go figure this Kohler Bakersfield has me stumped.

1. Why are the corners rounded

2. Why the silly metal frame thing.

If above 2 can be solved we have a winner. I like the less than 33 inch length just to preserve more work-top area.

Steff, um I was just curious, is there any more Sopa de Tortillas left? You can tell I'm a little hungry and your's really sounded REALLY good :) Wish we would have had a little photo to see how it looks. Long story but I have a fetish for food shots LOL!

I was just thinking guys, what would happen if we bring this Euro beauty here? It is 220-240 V like the cooktop we are bringing. But, could an Electrician run a 240 volt line also for this? Seems that if the cooktop would run, wouldn't this dishwasher?

It would be $842 with shipping and exchange. The Canada AEG and Bosch are $1,200 + tax.

The White Kenmore is $550

Here is a link that might be useful: 18 inch IKEA UK

That dishwasher looks like a great option. According to the info, the door is an add on, but you can probably get that in Canada. If you have enough room on your electrical panel, the electrician can run the line. Have it checked before you order.

Back to the sink. So far, the only tile ins with faucet deck are double bowl and the square corners are on the apron sinks. You could order the deck plate with the faucet for extra stability on tile. You can flush mount an apron sink and the front doesn't have to show.

I do have some Sopa de Tortilla left and I could take some photos. So you have a fetish? I do love good food photos, but never thought of putting my humble dinners in that category.

Hi Steff,

Thanks for the update.

Say is our favorite Sun Cat still napping? Yeah I saw plllog's Kohler Entree, nice square corners but it's a 33 incher.

Look what I found on Craiglist today! Kohlermania $100 for Bakersfield and the Entree!

Here is a link that might be useful: Brand New Kohler Sinks

Haven't finished reading. Not focusing well yet. Not Lark. That's your joke. Night owl. Owl and Pussycat went to sea in a beautiful pea green boat. Compatible. Both nocturnal. Both like field mice. Not sure about the pea green, but if it were the color of beautifully blanched petits pois rather than pea soup colored, I could go for it.

Tile-in sink. You are very confused, señor. The sinks you have pictured are not tile-in sinks. The one in the thread is an undermount, with coior through tile glued on top of it. The metal frame sink is a drop in. And ugly. Mostly for Formica, I think.

A tile in sink sets on your substrate. The mortar bed for the tile comes up to it, and over the deck a little. You need to buy quarter round to finish it off. The quarter round arches over the end of the mortar from the sink deck to the top of the mortar to butt up to your field tiles.

Just for you, I've processed the following and uploaded. Feel honored. :)

Here you can see the mortar bed and sink. In the back are some loose tiles I was arranging.

This is what it looked like on the substrate before the mortar went in.

(Told you it was white.)

Look closer:

Re DW "Program duration: 130 min." Program. Timing. Best to talk to the maker and find out if the frequency difference in the electricity is going to screw up the programming on the DW. It very well might. Other thing to find out is whether you could hook up a replacement board for the North American model to the guts of the prettier one, if it would work well, and how much it would cost. Be careful with appliances that use clocks for more than buzzing you at a set time.

Re CL sinks, did you notice the colors? Almond and biscuit? Does that work for you? The linked spec sheet for the first model is for a self rimming (i.e., drop in) sink, not tile in.

Gracias! Me gusta tu cocina.

Plllog, That's a serious window. Nice. Well done with the photos.

So, looks like we need some yellow quarter round and may have to bite the bullet with a 33 inch Tile In, like yours. The pickings are indeed slim. I think the Talavera quarter round is maybe 1 inch width.

Do you think that distance you've described above would be about one inch? Or does that sound really big?

Just curious but your prep area to the left of the sink, Is it more than 27 inches?

Here is a link that might be useful: Talavera Quarter Round

Quarter round is pretty standard. The measurement is across the widest cross section, so kind of diagonally across the tile.

Before you do anything about buying anything, talk to your tile contractor, show him the sinks available and the trim tiles there and at Tierra y Fuego. Get some on the ground advice on what you should get so that it'll all work well together. For instance, a good tile setter might be able to adapt an undermount or self rimming sink, if needed, and there might be a different way of trimming it out in that case.

My prep area is the island. I don't remember the size of the area to the left of the sink, but 27" wouldn't surprise me. It's a DW plus a bit before the cooktop.

whoops, minor detail. Right, Biscuit. No just saw the whitish color, and no way would we sacrifice a serious design cue just to save a Buck or even a hundred of them.

plllog, be honest, this sink should really be a Tile In shouldn't it? But I just measured and if we put your same one in as a 33incher, there would only be 21.5 inches prep area from the left of the sink to the beginning of the "L". I think that's visually and practically not possible. And as you said, the silly Bakersfield that Kohler lists as a Tile In really isn't. It's a weird metal rim, rounded corner thing.

Then I'm forced into the 18x24 Kohler drop in?

Well said, the tile setter should be able to steer us right.

Looking at your sink, pre-mortar, The tile in's have a thicker perimeter to match the thickness of the counter tile. So, the tile setter should be able to create the same thing by adding either mortar or Ditra to the substrate.

Anyways, lets ask him. Surely in his 25 year career, he has done it somewhere along the line.

plllog, I just noticed in your photo that to the right of the window, you have wall cabinets and then your corner. But it doesn't look like a corner wall cabinet. Looks like you merged regular straight cabinets into an "L". Is that by preference of looks? Is there an advantage of not using diagonal corners in a Kitchen design? Visually?

Huh? Not sure I understand the first part of your question. There is a corner cabinet in the upper, but it is L shaped, if that's what you mean, only square. Double hinged door. My cabinets are 100% custom, but that's a normal kind of cabinet. An alternative is to have two doors that open from the middle, but I find that inconvenient.

Diagonal corners? Contradictory concept. But I take it you mean the cabinet like you got that cuts across the corner? Definitely a looks thing. Those kind of cabinets creep me out. I like my corners to be corners. You can get more into the angled kind, but it's hard to get into the back.

Yes exactly, it cuts across the corner. Well, I was kind of thinking the same as you and now noticed that not many people use or want that cabinet style. But I guess I can leave it as is unless you have a flash of genius. Problem was, I needed a glass display cabinet for the Mexican plates and Cobalt Rimmed Wine glasses. I was going to have the window cabinets flanking the stained glass window then thought that's too many confusing visuals. So, I flanked the window with solid doors and made the corner cutting cabinet with glass and illumination. I couldn't do glass on the cabinets flanking the Fruit Basket for the same reasons of distraction. So, I basically had to do this option.

Stef what about you, do you think those corner cutters are... not great?

Just thought of a question the tile setter will ask. Would you prefer continuing the backsplash right around to the end walls of the "L" to meet the counter edge or just stopping at the corner of the "L"?

Don't understand the last question.

As to your cabinet, it's fine. It's there. It's happy. It functions for you. The divided lights make it less creepy.

Hi guys

Was away for a trip to NYC, sulking because of problems GW was having, super busy at work, must finish continuing education before Dec.31, and spent this past weekend at mom's.

Yes, I am on the east coast. I am Thrilled because my beach cottage thread has reappeared. And we have a Boston Market here about 3 miles away. Creamed spinach and spiced apples, yummmm ! Sounds like lunch to me. : )

Hi Angela, it seems GW is working better now and we can find our old posts and some that didn't get answers are bumping up. I usually miss NYC at Christmas, but this year I'm just fine being in a warm climate. Enjoy your lunch.

I see the tile in sink expert is back on the case and has set you on the right path.

The corner cabinet works well in your kitchen for all the reasons you stated. I don't have them in my kitchen here, but did put them in the Houston house because we are planning to sell it and thought it would appeal to buyers. Now maybe not, but it does add visual interest to the dead-end galley kitchen that I turned into a U-shape.

I would end the backsplash at the corner and not continue around the sides. It looks more like a bathroom than a kitchen and seldom looks good to me.

Angela welcome back! Looks like the Boston Market has struck a chord, great place for fast food isn't it? I wonder if their Creamed Spinach can hold a candle to Steff's. Glad to hear your thread is back, will have to visit to see what has transpired since my last comment on that wall with the cabinets you were debating on. Angela, when is the construction actually set for? You must be excited. Please let us know how your lunch goes, maybe I can see if the Buffalo NY locations are still in biz.

Steff,-thanks for the comment on the Corner cabinet. Good to know for the next time. Also, looks like you understood my tile dilemma. I know the wording is a little tricky and plllog that's where I lost you. Basically saying that do you wrap the back splash around onto the walls. Plus you need at least another 30-50 tiles.

Hm... not really understanding Steff's bathroom comment.

There should be backsplash over all the counter. Makes it easier to clean up, and gives you a unified look.

Hi Angela!!

plllog-I've got you confused. Let's try again.

Ist photo shows yellow tile backsplash continued on right and left walls winding around.

2nd photo of actual kitchen

Option 1-stop at wall underneath the double cabinet, parallel to the end of the countertop.

Option 2- continue to tile on the end wall so backsplash meets the countertop edge.

plllog- I just searched and found 2 variations on the same Tile In Sink theme. With and without quarter round.

Any particular reason you chose the quarter round route? Think it looks better?

Steff- Which style do you like better?

Hmmm, like the Cobalt Blue quarter round idea, looks more "custom". Any opinions? Blue vs Yellow.

Oh, isn't Solman clever? He's found a kitchen with white cabinets, yellow tile, and cobalt trim!

As to the first picture, I've never seen that version. The tile-in sink is easy to clean around, etc. It may be that the first sink was meant to be a drop in, and they set it flush into the tiles instead. Show this picture to Tile Setter and see what he says about it. He'll know better than I!

As to the backsplash, you notice how your first picture, plus both of the sink + tile pictures below it, show how it's correctly done. Yes, the tile is supposed to go around the corners.

I'm wondering if it might not be a good idea to revisit the double barreled square brothers? It would enhance your rustic look if you mixed up the backsplash, and extend your stock of tiles by using all those other samples to make more double barreled squares. Very authentic. Too rustic?

The first sink picture is exactly what I was trying to describe last night. Both look good, but the first is probably easier to clean. Check with the tile installer.

You asked about faucet drips, I rarely have any water run over the back of my overmount sink with single lever faucet. Two handle faucets have more of a problem with that.

Wrapping the tile around the side wall is easier to clean and I think you said you have a good tile guy. If you get the proper trim pieces, including that little rounded corner piece, then it will look good. The first photo looks like a bathroom and the second one has a cabinet on the side wall above the tile, both slightly different from your situation.

If you order trim for the wall tile, you could order quarter round for the sink also.

Steff, was it the first sink in the lower message you thought looked easier to clean? I was thinking the opposite. It looks to me like there's a deeper grout line at the edge of the sink flange than normal, and like the edge of the flange curves down a little. It's fine, but I kept looking at it and thinking crumbs would catch in that. Very minor point though. It's very easy cleaning a tiled in sink--but you do have to make sure to redo the seal when it wears out rather than letting water run down inside the cabinet. It's also easy to clean around a drop in sink, except for crumbs. You have to wipe them up or into your hand rather than right into the sink.

Any sink style, if it's installed properly, will be just fine.

Re faucets, I think having a proper faucet deck on a tile-in sink will help contain the splash over that Solman is worked about, with the height of the quarter round to keep in the drips and cleaning around the faucet puddles. A consideration with the radiator and window arrangement.

Usually, when one sees single hole faucets on tile, it actually is at a join, but other than making sure the tile doesn't crack if you center it, I can't imagine that anything matters but what you think looks good. An escutcheon might ease things, and keep any scale or whatever off of the tiles.

Solman, have you decided on accessories? Do you want the side spray? Will you want a soap dispenser? The more holes you have, the easier it is if you have a multi-hole faucet deck on the sink.

plllog, I think you're right about that line just before you sweep the crumbs over the side. Unless it is perfectly flush, you'd have to constantly run something around there to keep it clean. The one with the quarter round creates a space that you can just wipe down as you do normal cleaning.

I don't use the side spray a lot, but when I need it, it is very useful. You see a lot of pros and cons on the soap. I don't have a built in one, so don't miss it. I really like those tilting ones I've seen.

Oh, isn't Solman clever? He's found a kitchen with white cabinets, yellow tile, and cobalt trim!

LOUDER!!!

--->But he's not too impressed with the White Cabinets. Stefffffffffffffffffff, did you say leave them Pine? :) I couldn't hear you there's snow falling on the roof.

Speaking of not hearing, Missy are you still in holiday mode?

plllog-stef wow good eyes. Now after looking closer at the tiles of that 1st WHITE WHITE WHITE Tile In sink photo, I'd like to know who the tile setter was just so I don't dare hire him :)

I mean look at the silly 2 inch strips of tile he puts around the sink which is a visual point. I mean did it EVER occur to the guy that maybe starting full tiles from the sink and then fanning out to the walls was just a little better looking? Go figure!

And the Kitchen, I mean yeah they must LOVE WHITE. Feels like an operating room. Maybe it was!

Hola, Operadora de Mexico?

I'll have:

100 Tamales (volume discount)
5 kilos Fresh MOLE from the Mercado de Oaxaca
5 Pinyatas for next X-Mas
10 Cobalt Blue Talavera Quarter Rounds

Earrings, belts, hair clips, pendants, rings, scarves.. Oh oh you mean men's accessories!

Soap dispenser-seems gimmicky. Also, maybe the soap would rot down there with the dispenser being above the rad.

Spray, yeah maybe. Never had one mind you. Seems like the blast from it will shoot water everywhere... behind the sink? But good for grunge removal I'm sure

Re photo, remember how much brighter your yellow is. The problem with the white/yellow/cobalt above is that the yellow is too pale and doesn't contrast well with the white. And you'll have the green trim.

Re soap dispenser, good call. Re spray, it's very useful for things like washing out the trash can, but side sprays often have limited pressure. You do have a nice long spout on your faucet which is good. Your sink/window area will look much less cluttered without it, but function comes first. There's a different valve with a side spray, so you have to decide ahead of time.

Do you know if your code requires an airgap for the DW? I think Miele don't require an airgap. Do you know if the other models you're looking at do? If you have to have an airgap, you'll need a hole for that...

It's MINUS -28C!!!!!

Go to bed!!!

"Minus -28C" is over 82° F. Very balmy.

Pinyata? A boat shape maybe? While we do have Christmas piñatas, you most often see them in warmer months because it is really an outdoor game.

Brrrrr. One very cold day at Mt. Tremblant we met a nice British couple and mentioned that we had only an idea of how cold it really was because we have to convert the temps. Their answer? "You're better off not knowing!"

I like the idea of the pine cabinets, I think we originally thought to paint them because it would go with the rest of your house or similar silly nonsense. Now we seem to have outrun the practicality police or at least I haven't seen them for a while. There was the issue of the pine not matching existing trim and some other concerns in the first thread. Remember when thinking of paint we are not recommending white, but a soft milkpaint in off white.

I'll be out until next week starting tomorrow, so wanted to get this greeting in early.

Thanks Stef for such a nice HIGH TECH Greeting and really best wishes to you for a Happy New Year. Look forward to hearing your New Year stories.

{{gwi:2105231}} Hapyy New Year, Steff!

plllog- did you like the Cobalt Blue quarter round idea better than Yellow for the sink trimming?

Here is a link that might be useful: A Little Treat

Oooh! Is that Tile Setter? Restoring a classic counter?

Trade-offs: The quarter round in yellow might not match perfectly. (Likely won't, though it's a classic color, each firing will be just a little different.) Cobalt is more rustic looking. And you were wanting to de-emphasize the sink area.

Thanks, but the only high tech part is the cut and paste action. Someone, not me, had the vision and skill to put that together. The trick is finding the best one out of zillions.

I like the blue quarter round.

Hi Guys,

I'm hiding from the Minus 28C, will pop out in moments to test it and my mettle.

You know that little treat I just sent. Well, that's the exact 30 inch type White Tile In sink that I need. BUT notice it is not really Tile in. It appears to have a rim with rounded corners. Your's has dead square corners for people who choose to mount like that 1st sink in the WHITE kitchen. So, IF I could possibly find a 30 inch Cast single rectangular bowl, it would be a dream. If only I knew where the one in this photo came from.

plllog, steff- I really like that guy's tiled counter with those little mini tiles. It's a shame that tiled countertops have such a negative rap out in Granitville. They're very attractive. I know, they're not the TREND right now. Speaking of which, plllog, any word on...?

Angela- you didn't tell us how The Boston Market went. I still can't figure out why they go under. Maybe the food isn't junky enough. The masses need more beef lard in their fries. Don't laugh McDonalds adds it to their oil to give them the nice Beefy flavor. DISGUSTING! coming from the Pescatarian/occasional Chicken nibbler, when tempted by Mole and other ethnic delicacies like Chicken Byrani.