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sue36_gw

How did you train your husband?

sue36
18 years ago

I need advice. DH and I have been married 2 1/2 years, but we haven't lived together during that time. Long story short, he was living in the state we are building our house, where I am moving. We lived together years ago while we were "dating", but it was "my" apartment. We went to "his" house weekends. Chores were effectively split.

I now have an issue. He won't do jack. It is really starting to bug me. The house is basically done, but he hasn't gotten a job, so he has a lot of free time, which he miraculously fills up with I don't know what. I am still in my apartment in the city, packing it up (without any help, I might add). I go up there weekends and he hasn't done anything. Laundry that was in the dryer on Monday is now on top of the dryer on Saturday. Laundry from weeks ago is piling up and falling behind the machines. The clean dishes (I loaded and ran the dishwasher as I left) are still in the dishwasher. The dust and grime from building are still on the countertops and sinks. The toilets haven't been cleaned since I did them (and they need to be, if you know what I mean). Same thing with the kitchen sink.

I can't spend 50 hours working, 15 hours commuting, and keep a 3800 SF house clean with no help! I am NOT going to hire a maid. Between the 2 of us we should be able to do it (there are no kids). We went food shopping yesterday and he didn't even help me put groceries away. I cooked dinner 2 nights and he never cleaned a pot or put a thing in the dishwasher. The pan he used while I was gone was clearly cleaned on the inside but not the outside. It was all water spotted and greasy finger prints. I am NOT a neatnik at all, by the way.

How would you handle this? I am tempted to treat him like a child and make lists. He says he doesn't do it because he "won't do it right". He is meticulous about things he cares about. I am convinced that when he does a slip-shod job it is so he won't be asked to do it again.

What do you recommend? I am considering having the cable TV turned off.

Comments (97)

  • MariposaTraicionera
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "We lived together years ago while we were "dating", but it was "my" apartment. We went to "his" house weekends. Chores were effectively split."

    If it worked then, what changed? It takes two to tango as they say. Something happened. I get the feeling he's trying to rebel against something, but I could be wrong.

    I also don't care for the subject heading 'How did you train your husband?' Sounds like a puppy/pet to me when you use that word.

    DH has always helped me and it had nothing to do with 'training.' We both worked and found that if we took turns doing things and helping each other, we'd have more time to have fun. It's worked the same with my kids...no training.

    My children and DH always cook on Sundays so I have a day off. They came up with that idea years ago, and mother has never complained,lol. Communication is the key. Honestly, I never have to fight and argue to get things done. It does not mean that they leave the house spotless, but I choose my battles, and find that I have very little to complain about.

    Also, the end of your post you mentioned 'considering having the cable cut off.' That sounds sooooo much like a mother dealing with a child. OUCH. I don't see this working out without some good communication. Good luck anyway.

  • maggie2094
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sue, When I first read your post I thought it was the normal couples thing about chores and so on but obviously it is much deeper.

    I'm not sure what the being in so and so's camp thing means but I wouldn't discount what cup is saying. The fact that you have been married for 2 1/2 years and not lived together in that time clearly shows that the marriage was not the number one priorty in either of your lives. I am not saying that to be hurtful - I don't know what the circumstances were in your lives and I can't pretend to know but the marriage was obviously not first. Marriage is not 50/50. Sometimes in a marriage one person has to give 200% to the other's 0%. Something I remember an older couple saying to me when we went through pre-marriage counceling was this - "love is not just a feeling, sometimes it is a CHOICE". Boy, do I feel that way somedays!

    I think that is what cup is saying. It is not a matter of being right but of making it work. For those of you who have gotten to know me on this forum you have probably figured out by now that I am one of the most liberal minded people you could meet. But, you know what? Marriage isn't politically correct. There are gender roles we revert to because it is societal and some because it is just natural.

    My other point to you is to own up to your part in the current situation. Things do not happen in a vacuum. We all play a role in the situations we live.

    I am making no exuses for his behaviour and no judgement as to divorce or anything like that. I don't want to sit here and pretend to play armchair psychiatrist. I hope you find a path that brings you happiness and peace.

  • avjohnson
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sue, I think he is taking advantage of you. I'm not sure if he's going to improve...it may have worked better from a distance and the current situation doesn't look good to me. You may have to get tough, and if he can't deal with it, do what you have to do to save yourself. If he is trained to have a decent job he should at least try to get one, whether he's depressed or not.

  • frmrwoodrlndr
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The word "train" applies to people too. Think of a new employee being trained for a job, for example. Training means instructing, and the word holds no value one way or the other.

    Most of us have more or less experience with the kind of struggle you're in right now. I didn't mean to imply in my post way up there that my DH is "well trained." Just that marriage is a partnership, and partners can learn from each other. Marriage requires constant negotiation for it to stay equal. If one partner gives up and refuses to negotiate, then hard decisions must be made. If you do not share the religious and political beliefs that require marriage to be preserved at almost any cost to the self, then you will find other ways to decide what you need to do. I know we all wish you the best.

  • lori316
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Interesting read.

    My situation is somewhere between yours, Sue, and Kitchenmom's. When I first met DH, he had a good (albeit creampuff) job. He'd be the first to admit that. I was a full time student and worked part time. We split the household chores pretty much evenly.

    20 years and three kids later, I work a full time job and a part time job, and he works probably less than 15 hours on an average week.

    When we decided to start a family, we felt it was important for one of us to stay home. He was a teacher and I made more than twice his salary. He left teaching "temporarily" when we had our first child. Fourteen years later, he still stays at home with the kids.

    Sometime it gets a little frustrating because I'm at work and he's home watching Barney and Winnie the Pooh with our youngest.

    I can't stand to come home to a messy house or to know that he did nothing all day until about an hour before I walked in the door, then he threw the dishes in the dishwasher and laundry in the washer. I know it happens. He almost never makes dinner, I do (this is in everybody's best interest;) ). Then again, there are days I tend to goof off at work and sometimes just don't feel like it.

    However, when we did our kitchen remodel it was 95% DIY, with him doing everything. We just finished an addition that he did 99% of himself.

    In almost 16 years of marriage, I have probably done less than 15 loads of laundry. I don't clean bathrooms unless company is coming. He is in charge of bill paying. Unless there's a specific issue, he takes the kids to the doctor appointments. He does basic grocery shopping and will do all of it if I give him a list, but since I do most of the cooking, it's easiest if I do it. He vacuums, dusts (well...sometimes), does whatever needs to be done, although he's no neat freak.

    The point of all of this is we do what needs to get done to make the house run...as a team. If he feels like crap and there's a sink full of dishes, I have to do it. If I'm working late, he's got to make dinner. Teamwork.

    You're not getting teamwork. You've made a big investment in a new house, you're working your butt off, commutting, doing everything that needs to be done. If he was unemployed and taking care of all the other stuff, it's understandable, probably even a good arrangement, considering your hours. But he's not carrying his load.

    Something has to change. He has to contribute more or you have to accept what he's doing (or should I say, "not" doing. Personally, I wouldn't accept it. I'm not saying I would file for divorce tomorrow, but you two definitely need to talk.

    In my opinion, yes, you are being abused. Sleep deprivation is one of the toughest forms of abuse. If you're up all night working, then working all day the next day, how can you expect to function?

    I think one of the most important keys to a successful marriage is respect for each other. Allowing you to move without help is not respectful. Allowing you to work as you do, take on all the load, is not respectful.

    You two have to talk. Explain how you feel. I doubt you'll have him dusting the ceiling fan blades on a daily basis, but hopefully you can find a happy medium.

    I suggest you keep his traits in mind if you decide to have children. Bringing up kids is difficult with two parents helping. I don't know how you'd do it alone - and have to take care of him too.

    Good luck with everything. You deserve a happy life. You are responsible to make sure you get it. Take your vows seriously. Take your happiness seriously too.

  • fatlester
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sue, your post sounds really angry and I just don't think that's a good frame of mind in which to start living with someone -- married or not.

    Obviously you reached out here to try to get a handle on the whole thing. Perhaps some of the posts were helpful to you.

    It would be really easy to say there's one problem and it's him. That may be true. But if it is, then I also have to ask why you are turning your life upside down and moving before you have a better handle on the whole thing.

    Everyone has different ideas about such things but could I respectfully suggest that perhaps you'd want to get some counseling, not because you need it necessarily but to try to gain some perspective on what the issues might be?

    My read on your post is that:
    You're married to someone you've never really lived with.
    You feel you're doing all the giving.
    He's unemployed.
    He's unresponsive.
    He doesn't accept basic responsibilities.
    He escapes into TV
    You're clearly furious.
    You're not happy.
    You're uprooting yourself.

    And if you were a friend of mine I'd have to ask you this question: What are you getting out of this?

    I just don't feel this is a great way to start. It also sounds like it's about bigger issues than housework.

    Obviously you love him and there may be a way to turn this around. But this is core relationship stuff and if it were me, I'd try to figure out what how I was feeling and try to find out what's really going on with him.

  • vasheri
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    (((HUGS))) and (((MORE HUGS)))

  • mitchdesj
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think fatlester summarized it well; I also think that Sue needed to validate what she already knows. Past behaviour is a pretty good indicator of future behaviour; 0 effort in a situation like you described is pretty pathetic. Finding the same mess from one week to the next is appaling. But the writing is on the wall;
    once you have a conversation with him and let him explain WHY he is doing zilch, you might have the beginning of a salvaging of the marriage.

    He is being very clear in his actions and he is not trying to fool you; how clearer can this be- he should be commended for being so honest about how he views the roles you both have in this marriage. Actions speak louder than words.

    I truly believe you cannot train or change anyone; you can only change how YOU deal with it or react to it.

    That being said: Sue, I truly wish you the strength to find your way through this; it's not easy and you did the right thing by venting here and being honest about your situation. I hope things get resolved for you; you seem like a hard working person stuck in an odd situation. Life is weird sometimes. Best of luck to you.

  • paulines
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sue,
    You asked for opinions as to "how you would handle this" & "what do you recommend" and Cup gave you hers. In knowing you both through your posts, I feel confident in saying you are both very different people, lightyears apart in your views. However, your first response to her was argumentative & then you chose to insult her ("I am speechless, I really am. I hope to God you don't have sons.")

    IF this is your MO with your DH (again, from meeting you and your posts, it seems that you come from different backgrounds and are very different people), then it may be your responses & reactions to his actions (or non-actions) that are setting the scenerio for failure.

    Hopefully, you can engage DH in discussion, without being judgmental, argumentative or disagreeable. Let him know very non-emotionally how exhausting this situation has become and you need some sort of viable game plan that involves greater participation from him. LISTEN to his response - just listen (think all you want about how lame his response may be-but don't respond). Give him the opportunity to come up with an acceptable solution to your problems without fear of the wraith of Sue.

    On the other hand, he may just like things the way they are, in which case the ball is in your court to decide whether or not you want to choose to live like this and vest your energies in feeling rightfully resentful. Good luck!

  • avjohnson
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sue, based on your presence here and in other forums I think you are a very sharp, intelligent person. I've always gotten a lot from your posts...I'm confident you can take in all this input from people and will come up with a good plan of action...Best of luck to you...

  • cupofkindness
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    To Pauline and the others who have been gracious in their replies to my posts on this thread: thank you very, very much, they mean a lot to me. On the other hand, I too am speechless, stunned actually, over one or two of the replies to my posts. One even mocked me. Why? Why in the world would you cast insults because someone is urging the OP to stand by her commitment and work through these problems with love and concern?

    Second, as I read this thread I have often wondered what the posts would have said if the OP was a man complaining about his wife... that she is unmotivated, inconsiderate and self-absorbed. I wonder if the replies might have been different: urging the husband to be patient, understanding, to make certain that the wife had seen a doctor recently for a complete physical, to encourage volunteer work, professional counseling, suggesting perhaps an at-home business, a weekend away together, a return to school, etc. Replies that would aim to help the wife and heal the marriage, not kick the wife out of the house for being a good-for-nothing freeloader. While we will never know what that thread might have read like, I doubt that it would have turned to name calling and spouse bashing.

    In any case, I hope Sue can work through her problems and come to a place of peace in her life. I really do. Good luck Sue.

  • jerzeegirl
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    cup: I am afraid it was you who lobbed the first insult with your first reply when you said: "However, I take offense at the title of your thread. I'm not even going to get into the debate about "training" your husband, he's a person, not a dog." The OP had to write back to say that the reference to "training" was tongue in cheek (in addition to others pointing out that training applies to people too).

  • proudmamato4
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I said I was outta here, and I know that Cup can defend herself. But I just have to jump back in the fray.

    Jerzeegirl, we've chatted, and have a relationship, so understand I'm not trying to pick a fight. But how exactly is it lobbing an insult just be saying that someone takes offense at something? That is just stating that you have a position on something. I mean, if someone said that they need to train their homosexual child to be heterosexual, and someone else got offended at that, that doesn't mean the latter is lobbing an insult. Cup's original post inspired warm feelings in me, because she really does care about all of us here. And her posts show that. She also believes very strongly in the sacrament of marriage. As a Christian, which I know she is as well as I, we are taught to pass on the word of Christ. And while I will also admit to being a twice-a-year Catholic, and the child of divorced parents, I know that she is not trying to insult someone else's way of living. But she is trying to pass on her beliefs about how life is to be lived. Sue asked for advice, and Cup gave it. I also would love if my daughters would meet, fall in love with, and choose to marry sons like Cup is raising. A son that is genuinely loved (not smothered or coddled) by his mother often develops a strong respect for women and makes a wonderful husband. I think that the insults hurled at Cup regarding her family were completely unnecessary. I will just end this by saying that I believe not all marriages can be saved, but if you've made a commitment, you need to try to stand by it, except in the case of abuse, etc. where your or your children's lives are in harm's way.

    Proudmama

  • mgmsrk
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would consider seriously the suggestion that your husband could be depressed and deal with that first.

    After reading your posts this is what I have gathered about your relationship, you have lived apart for 4 years and have been married for 2.5 years with continuous problems throughout much of that time. I wonder if you can really have a marriage (not just a certificate that says you are) under those circumstances. Long distance relationships are hard but they are impossible with out total commitment by both parties. I wonder why you stayed together when your lives started to take different paths(especially since it was before you were married)? What was it you thought you had that was worth the trouble of continuing as a long distance couple? I don't expect you to answer those questions they are just what entered my mind and if you think about the answers they may help you with the decisions you need to make.

    Now about me, I have been married for 10 years, for the last 5 my husband and I have lived 1,000 miles apart in different countries. It is not easy and if we could(without great finical loss) we would be together. There are several differences in our situations(what I can infer from your posts) my husband and I are a real partnership and have been through our entire marriage and the years we dated, we are both committed to the relationship(that means both of us being happy), we support each other and we had a stable relationship and marriage before the move and it continues even with the separation.

    You may want to go to a counselor to discuss this situation for you own benefit. Many of the things you write here sound angry, that is not to say it is unjustified, only that when we let a situation that annoys us slide it snowballs. You may not be thinking about this situation with 100% clarity right now and talking to a neutral person could help.

    Best wishes

  • jerzeegirl
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Proudmama: You ask: "But how exactly is it lobbing an insult just be saying that someone takes offense at something?"

    Because I believe it was unnecessarily judgemental, confrontational and meant to provoke. Cup's statement that the OP's husband is "a person not a dog" implies that Sue was treating her DH like a dog. If the truth be known, I found that offensive (but kept my mouth shut until now, since you asked).

  • snookums
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Married almost 13 years and it's still an issue for us. The #1 thing we fight about is housework. And we DO have a housekeeper. The night before she comes is our HUGEST fight (I can always predict it) because of the decluttering, and my refusal to pick up HIS crap that he leaves strewn around the house, from underwear complete with skidmarks, work papers that are supposedly "important," computer debris, shoes, jackets, dishes, you name it. What makes me the angriest is that my kids are starting to take after him so my problem has tripled - literally.

    The last time I wrote a long to-do list for him it sent him over the deep end - literally - and he ran off to his doctor complaining about stress. The best part about it is that his doctor told him to get a grip and relax. Still though - I try not to put more than 3 or 4 things on a list at a max or he gets overwhelmed.

    I am NOT a neatnik myself. But I don't make or expect anyone else pick up my junk. My dh undresses in the bathroom and literally piles up his dirty clothes on the bathmat for several days, just stepping on it to brush his teeth! The laundry hamper is 5 feet away! I'd much rather put my dirty clothes in it then balance myself on a pile of dirty clothes every day. But that would require bending over, walking 5 feet, and lifting the lid. Something is wrong with that man!

    I know! His mother! She didn't make him do anything when he was growing up. I most definitely put my son to work so that he is not like that when he gets married. Men need to realize that even in a traditional household (I don't work), that pigsty-like behavior is still going to tick your wife off.

    Rant over...

  • mindstorm
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Let me take a stab at why some of us took offense at comments that suggested that one forgive, accomodate and adapt unilaterally to the DH (or DW) and whatever role they choose to adopt in the home. Basically saying that divorce is worse than almost any other outcome in a marriage (excepting murder or physical abuse as already made a caveat by someone above). Bottom line, please realize that this is completely OT and I in no way shape or form am saying that Sue and her DH are in dire straits.

    Sociologically, marriage or even cohabitation evolved as an simple, effective division of labour of what it takes to survive. EVERYONE needs and *wants* food, clothing, shelter, money to enable those, means to get around to pick up said food, clothing & Home Depot items (there was never a time Before Home Depot, right?), hygenic conditions in which to live, time to have bills to pay, to clean the abode (that hygiene thing), etc. you get my drift. If EVERYONE was doing EVERYTHING for each of themselves, well, that wasn't very effective because they'd run out of time, exhaust themselves etc. So the answer of a cooperative existence came about where each person did a subset of the total work but for more than just themselves. It became the norm for people to pair off (nominally) in male-female units because of the *other* procreational urges, although other units (including larger groups of adults) have also formed historically.

    So, without getting too fancy, what i'm getting at is that marriage came about as a means to facilitate the problems of living: the institution was designed to work for the 2 people involved - both the 2 people. Somehow or the other over time, it has gotten twisted into this being that the couple must work for and do whatever it takes to keep that marriage intact - not that it needs to benefit the people in it, but that it just stay intact. It became taboo to talk about divorce. As a result we have all seen two supremely unhappy people, ill-suited to each other who are staying together because their society says that divorce is a worse fate than their present state of existence. Sometimes its just one supremely unhappy person but again the call is that it is more important to stay put than to get out.

    Marriage then becomes this hungry beast to be tended and the couple in question are sacrificed to it. That is what calls to preserve a marriage at any cost amount to. I cannot see any good defense of any situation in which anyone (or ones) are being sacrificed to some cause especially when that "cause" is an unnecessary perversion of a basically good institution that was originally designed to serve the people in question.

    Anyhow, that was OT.

  • MariposaTraicionera
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I too would have been interested in reading the responses by some of you if it had been a guy who came asking a similar question. I know from past experience on this board that several 'females' would have been in uproar at the thought that a wife had to be 'trained.'

    Sue's posts has a lot of 'mine' and 'his.' So this is not a 'we/our' relationship from what I'm reading. Also, she stated that the mortgage and house is in 'her' name. I see some control issues here, and personally speaking, if I had someone making lists and demanding things be done a certain way, I too might be tempted to 'rebel.' It's human nature. That's the other thing I'm seeing here...rebellion.

    Throw stones if you all want, but I make no apologies for what I'm seeing. We're reading ONE side of this story. My Daddy always used to say 'darling daughter, there are at least TWO sides to any story...sometimes more.'

    I rest my case.

  • cupofkindness
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Although I never meant to imply that Sue is treating her husband like a dog, I did write those words with the mindset that Sue is facing serious marital discord that requres an intense amount of work to sort through. As a "newlywed" of sorts, perhaps Sue doesn't yet understand from the heart what takes most of us years to grasp, that you cannot make your spouse conform to your idea of a husband. You can't program him, you can't change him. Sue's post is very serious and very important. That is why I chose such strong words, because she needs to hear them or she will find herself single again. That's why I keep hammering away at commitment. This is a marriage, not a paper towel, and she must work at it, not toss it away. Not only does her husband need her help, but she must do it for her own sake. Sue is half of the problem, she must understand the dynamics here or she will make the same mistakes, if not in this relationship then in another. Never, ever have I suggested that Sue become a doormat and allow her husband to use her as such. Nor have I said that she should hold the marriage together for the sake of preserving her marriage. But she must fulfill her end of the agreement that she made on her wedding day and try her best to make this marriage work. Like Proudmama stated, at the end of the day not all marriages can be saved. I can live with that. But what is so sad is when people make a commitment that they don't really intend to keep. As for the purpose of marriage, I believe that the higher purpose of marriage is to allow the spouses to flourish in life, to receive and give emotional stability, sexual fulfillment, physical comfort and security, companionship, and happiness. And of course, for most of us, dear children. Mindstorm, I believe what you have outlined is only part of the picture, the practical side of things, which though important, misses the deeper aspects of being loved by another person for the rest of your life. That what makes marriage different from shacking up, a business relationship or living in a commune.

    Sue, you haven't checked in today but I wonder if you are still following the thread. Would you please accept my apologye to you for offending you? I'm very sorry. I know that you are in turmoil and pain, I wish that I could wave a magic wand and change things for you, because you deserve a happy marriage. I hope that you and your husband make the time to sort out everything by listening to one another and recalling why you married each other in the first place.

  • mrsmarv
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My mother used to say there were 3 sides to every story: "his, hers, and the truth".
    I also believe the saying "perception is reality" really holds true. Each person involved in a situation sees it differently.
    But I need to ask Sue or anyone else in a similar situation why they would choose to get married when there appeared to be such glaring and unresolved issues during the course of the relationship?

  • bill_vincent
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    why they would choose to get married when there appeared to be such glaring and unresolved issues during the course of the relationship?

    That's an easy one. You block out the bad stuff cuz the good stuff is so good. I'm not necessarily talking about physical intimacy, either, although that is a factor. Unless you can be brutally honest with yourself at times when it's most difficult, it can happen very easily.

    Been there, done that, too.

  • frmrwoodrlndr
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Why people choose to get married is complicated and not at all relevant here. It's too late to worry about that now, and it's none of our business. Sue was asking for help with and advice about what's going on in her life right now. We only know her side of the story because she's the one who told it, so that's all there is to go on. This story only exists for us because she told it. And from the perspective she gave us, she has a right to be angry! I don't think it's helpful to remind her of her husband's side, because she probably has already spent plenty of time thinking of him and now needs some support for herself.

    Sue, I hope you have gotten something here, including support, that will be useful to you.

  • vasheri
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    J.P. Morgan said, "A man always has two reasons for doing anything -- a good reason and the real reason."
    I say, A man always has two reason for not doing anything -- a juvenile reason and the real reason."

    Sue, when I was a teen growing up, I loved this old movie that came on TV every now and then. "There was a color movie in the '60s called IF A MAN ANSWERS, starring Sandra Dee and Bobby Darin. After Dee marries Darin, she begins to follow her mother's advice and treats her husband according to a book she gives her on "How to Train Your Dog". It costars John Lund and Ceasar Romero, with Stefanie Powers in a small role. Dee and her Mom are exquisitely costumed by Jean Louis."

    The movie is hysterical. I'll tell you what, when you wrote the title of this thread, I thought of that movie. Something else, I think of some of the tricks the mother used to teach her bride-daughter every now and then. Listen, train is right! =D

    Cup, you're a Titus 2:4 woman! I hear you loud and clear.

    I needed to read a lot of what has been written here. This thread was for me, too. Not so much because of my DH, but because I haven't been as focused or diligent about my time as I could be. This house building, lawsuit, etc...stuff, has really caused my focus to wander over the past months. If a poster or two had not gotten me off my pity pot back in September, I would not have been as prepared for that cabinet lawsuit. Even though some posts may come across 'hard to hear', then it is most likely that is the exact spot that needs cultivated and purged.

    I appreciate threads like this. What's funny/sad is, almost every single poster has me swayed to 'see' things their way...so you're good! You make sense. I feel the 'Don't tread on me' message. But my heart knows that the 'Marriage isn't a paper towel you throw away' message is the truth that rocked me straight in my chair. Too many things in our lives are disposable. To love, is a decision we make every day. It wasn't just on our wedding day. It's a decision I make daily, even when I don't feel like it. I do my best to not make decisions based on feelings. When my mind is made up, the emotions will follow.

    Love, is a decision. I think there's a book out there with that title. If so, it's something I've learned on my own. How? When people ask me, "Do you love your adopted children like you do 'your own' children?" PUH-leeze. Love expands like the elastic in your underwear waistband. If I don't stretch it, it stays tight and 'new'. If I stretch and decide to love more, love gets more comfortable and just 'is'. To love a child, a man, a woman, a job, a dog, etc... is about how we decide to respond.

    All things aside, there are issues we all have to deal with and work out. Once you're both moved in under one roof, I'm hoping that things will start to jell. You're both underappreciated, that's clear. Just verbalizing one genuine appreciation for something DH did may start to melt the ice. If he's down, that one thing might be all he can muster right now.

    Sue, my husband is not emotionally 'all there'. Wounded childhood, etc. OK,, I understand that. However, there are times when I really do wish he could help fill my cup with some kindness, appreciation, etc. It won't come. I can count on one hand how many times my DH has said some genuine appreciation. I have to praise him ALL the time. I've decided that I'm going to love him as long as he isn't cruel, abuses me physically/verbally, or cheats. Wounds and all, I'm his wife. I'm not thrilled many days, but I chose him, too.

    Any who....try to find that movie and have a good laugh. Send me your address and a bottle of wine is coming your way. I mean it.

    Be blessed.
    SheriLynn

  • momj47
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Big changes are coming for both of you.

    I have to agree with posters who say he may be depressed, and there's some passive/aggressive behavior too. The house is done so that's a big letdown, he doesn't have anything "important" to do now, so he's facing big changes in his role. You will be living with him all the time, he has to get a job, and working in an office probably doesn't seem nearly as satisfying as homebuilding, no matter what his role was. He's had this life for a few years and doesn't want it to change. Who would.

    Same for you, you are moving and will now live with your husband 24/7, you are the breadwinner, which gives you power, money is like that.

    You both need some professional advice, your roles are changing, and you need help negotiating these changes so both of you are satisfied. It's a huge task, not to be taken lightly.

    When you are cooking, ask him to help, give him a knife and ask him to chop the onions or make the salad, or empty the DW. Same thing when you are cleaning up. Ask him to clear the table while you are loading the DW, or give him a pile of clothes to fold with you.

    Most young couples can't get enough of each other and are mooning over the counter, nudging each other at the sink, happy to sit together and fold the clothes, etc. You've missed that whole time necessary to get to know each other, 2 1/2 years is a long time to have a marriage that's probably less satisfying than a long distance dating relationship.

    Good luck.

  • pecanpie
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Would I be really out of line here if I asked if anyone had considered that Sue's DH's behavior might be indicative of a substance abuse problem?

    Sue could have been describing an old roommate of mine. Obviously she couldn't have always been like that or she would have never made it into graduate school. She was hell to live with, would step OVER cat poop on the floor (HER cat), etc. but we managed for a year. I had no clue that she had a drug problem until her family showed up in the middle of finals, did an intervention and carted her away.

  • meskauskas
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Just in the way of a little chuckle to lighten things up a bit and show that just when you think it's only you that has an issue... A friend sent this to me this morning and I thought I'd pass it along. (Note: It really is meant to be just a funny....and I will be sending my DH to class #7 next week...)
    *************************************************
    WINTER CLASSES FOR MEN AT
    THE LEARNING CENTER FOR ADULTS
    REGISTRATION MUST BE COMPLETED BY
    Monday, Jan 9, 2006

    NOTE: DUE TO THE COMPLEXITY AND DIFFICULTY LEVEL
    OF THEIR CONTENTS, CLASS SIZES WILL BE LIMITED TO 8 PARTICIPANTS MAXIMUM.

    Class 1
    How To Fill Up The Ice Cube Trays --- Step by Step, with Slide Presentation.
    Meets 4 weeks, Monday and Wednesday for 2 hours beginning at 7:00 PM.

    Class 2
    The Toilet Paper Roll --- Does It Change Itself?
    Round Table Discussion.
    Meets 2 weeks, Saturday 12:00 for 2 hours.

    Class 3
    Is It Possible To Urinate Using The Technique Of Lifting The Seat and
    Avoid ing The Floor, Walls and Nearby Bathtub? --- Group Practice.
    Meets 4 weeks, Saturday 10:00 PM for 2 hours.

    Class 4
    Fundamental Differences Between The Laundry Hamper and The Floor ---
    Pictures and Explanatory Graphics.
    Meets Saturdays at 2:00 PM for 3 weeks.

    Class 5
    After Dinner Dishes --- Can They Levitate and Fly Into The Kitchen Sink?
    Examples on Video.
    Meets 4 weeks, Tuesday and Thursday for 2 hours beginning
    at 7:00 PM

    Class 6
    Loss Of Identity --- Losing The Remote To Your Significant Other.
    Help Line Support and Support Groups.
    Meets 4 Weeks, Friday and Sunday 7:00 PM

    Class 7
    Learning How To Find Things --- Starting With Looking In The Right Places
    And Not Turning The House Upside Down While Screaming.
    Open Forum .
    Monday at 8:00 PM, 2 hours.

    Class 8
    Health Watch --- Bringing Her Flowers Is Not Harmful To Your Health.
    Graphics and Audio Tapes.
    Three nights; Monday, Wednesday, Friday at 7:00 PM for 2 hours.

    Class 9
    Real Men Ask For Directions When Lost --- Real Life Testimonials.
    Tuesdays at 6:00 PM Location to be determined.

    Class 10
    Is It Genetically Impossible To Sit Quietly While She Parallel Parks?
    Driving Simulations.
    4 weeks, Saturday's noon, 2 hours.

    Class 11
    Learning to Live --- Basic Differences Between Mother and Wife.
    Online Classes and role-playing .
    Tuesdays at 7:00 PM, location to be determined

    Class 12
    How to be the Ideal Shopping Companion
    Relaxation Exercises, Meditation and Breathing Techniques.
    Meets 4 weeks, Tuesday and Thursday for 2 hours beginning at 7:00 PM.

    Class 13
    How to Fight Cerebral Atrophy --- Remembering Birthdays, Anniversaries and Other Important Dates and Calling When You're Going To Be Late.
    Cerebral Shock Therapy Sessions and Full Lobotomies Offered.
    Three nights; Monday, Wednesday, Friday at 7:00 PM for 2 hours.

    Class 14
    The Stove/Oven --- What It Is and How It Is Used.
    Live Demonstration.
    Tuesdays at 6:00 PM, location to be determined.

    Upon completion of any of the above courses,
    diplomas will be issued to the survivors.
    Send this to all the guys that you think can stand the heat, and to all the ladies for
    the best chuckle of their day!

  • paigect
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've seen it before, and it always makes me laugh. Actually, I'll admit that I am guilty of some of these things. But DS also needs to go to class 7. It's the looking in the right places aspect that seems to escape him. He'll stand in the middle of the living room, supposedly "looking" for his bookbag, which is almost always in the hall closet or at the dining room table.

    Oh, and class 3. Don't get me started.

  • berlin66
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I can relate to this issue. Through the entire dating process and the first two years of marriage, my DH traveled extensively for his job. The normal amount of time away was 4-6 months, and we might see each once or twice in that time. It drove me crazy. When he left, I had to take control of things (I have control issues to begin with) and start thinking like a single person again, same went for him. When he came back after 6 months, now we are a couple again, and the mindset and routines need to change again. Over and over. Sue's husband is dealing with life like a single person, because he more or less is. But so is Sue. And for a few days, their married, and have to start thinking like their married. It's a tough adjustment to make, made more difficult with the additional stress of unemployment, moving, building a home, on top of whatever else is going on in their lives. With that said, I would like to add that my DH took marriage to suddenly mean that all responsibilities, unless he enjoyed the task, was no longer his concern. I do all the cooking, cleaning, laundry, shopping, bills...etc. I'm fortunate in that he enjoys doing the yard work. We have no kids, which in this case is a good thing.

    It has been a long haul. My DH is a wonderful and kind person and there is hope for him yet. On more days than I care to admit that is my mantra. I am training him. He is also training me. He is getting better at helping around the house or doing what is asked of him, I am getting better at deciding which battles are worth winning and how to handle those situations with humor. DH responds better to humor. Nagging so didn't work.

    Sue, I wish you the best of luck in meeting half way with your husband. If he isn't willing to at least see the advantage of meeting you half way that will tell you something. It will be tough, since you've been married in your hearts, up to this point, but not in your minds. Basically, give the guy a chance but don't take his s**t.

  • eandhl
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    One of the biggest things that stand out on this entire thread is STRESS.
    Going from couple to married - stress
    Separate living quarters -- more stress
    Building a house --- Bigger stress
    Most of us have learned or read here the problems that stress can cause between husb/wife with just a kitchen remodel.

  • cupofkindness
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks to Proudmama and Vasheri. I looked up Titus 2:4 and it pertains to older women helping younger women in the early years of married life. So thank you for the complement. When I was married my husband and I did a pre-Cana program that was woefully inadequate in preparing us for marriage. But we didn't know it at the time. However, our family started during our honeymoom and that began a 15 year run of pregnancy, babies, nursing and so on. These were very hard years, and while they were all about the children, they were also all about me. My husband took a distant back seat in the van to the needs of the rest of us, never ever pressing his needs, always deferring to what I needed or what the seven children needed. Well, for Christmas, at my request, he gave me the book "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands" by Dr. Laura Schlessinger. Until I heard of the book, I'd never heard of Dr. Laura. Now, I don't agree with everything in her book, but what she writes about is very compelling. A discussion of male/female relations, her thesis is that women, married women that is, have incredible power over there husbands that they can use for the good or to hurt their husbands. She maintains that men are really quite straight-forward creatures, that they want love, respect, and good sex. Moreoever, that men are very dependent emotionally on their wives, all the while the wives have a fairly well organized network of friends, family members, etc. to fulfill their emotional needs. Although this book gives anecdotes of marriages in really bad shape, in reading through it (I'm not done reading it yet), I saw how (1) selfish that I am in a variety of ways and (2) I didn't view my husband's emotions, dreams, etc. with as much respect, meaning that I didn't place as much value as I should on what he wants out of life. Anyway, as I was reading the book, one of my daughters asked if she could read it when I was done. Well, of course since the subject matter is meant for adults, I told her that she couldn't. But I also said that I would insist that she read the book before she gets married (unless I find a better one).

    I would recommend this book to any woman. Though it is one-sided (Dr. Laura states that she will not be writing "The Proper Care and Feeding of Wives" anytime soon), for me it brought forth more feelings of compassion for my husband and the countless sacrfices he's made just being married to me: I am a piece of work, guaranteed.

    Anyway, I really need to clean up the breakfast dishes and gear up for a busy afternoon.

    By the way, meskauskas, great email. Thanks for including that in this thread!

  • lori316
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The classes for men thing is funny. I understand it's a joke and the humor behind it. I love it.

    BUT many people think men don't do chores because they don't know how to.

    BS!

    If I sat my nine month old nephew down on the floor with a dish cloth and a bowl, he'd probably start playing with it, play-washing the dish. Nobody (man or woman) has to learn how to clean. If something's dirty, wash it. If something is on the floor, pick it up. Special cleaners to clean the shower? Read the label!

    I bet if Sue's husband at least made a REAL effort but did it poorly, she'd appreciate the effort he put in.

    I agree, if the tables were turned, it'd be different if a man came here complaining about his wife. Yep, it's sexist.

    Do you know how many times I have to defend my DH to people who ask me what he does for a living? I tell them he works part time and stays home with the kids. I can read the looks on their faces. People still expect men to work full time and be financial providers.

    I back him and put them in their place. But if he wasn't pulling his share of the load, dam@ right, I'd be pissed.

    If Sue's husband is depressed, then fine. I understand that happens to people. I've been there, in a deep, deep hole, and it's hard to get out of it.

    But find SOME way to support your wife who's working her @ss off. I think Sue wants some help and respect, both very simple to give.

    DH and I had a big fight this morning because I left the kitchen a mess last night. And he's right. I did. I took a shower this morning and threw my clothes on the bathroom floor. I'm pretty sure I forgot to pick them up. Ooops. If I was living alone, I'd get to it eventually. But I know I'll be home from work before him today, so I'll run in there first thing when I get home and clean up.

    Sue's DH knows she's coming home this weekend. How hard is it to take some time and clean up the house so they can spend time together as opposed to her spending her weekend cleaning? Even if he did nothing else all week.

    Sue, I know you still have to be reading this. I wish you luck this weekend. I hope you can resolve this. I'll be thinking of you.

  • fatlester
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yikes, cupofkindness you are scaring me!

    The idea that you read Dr Laura's book and thought it is valuable enough to recommend is frightening. She should be reading a book you wrote and taking YOUR advice. You are so much smarter and wiser than she is it's not even funny.

    Have you ever read about her? Let me be polite: she's a mess, she's homophobic and I don't believe she's even married.

    Any woman who thinks men are simple creatures is not very sophisticated and doesn't have much experience. And anyone who thinks women can have most of their emotional needs met by their girlfriends? Oy. What planet is the woman on?

  • mary_228
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've listened to Dr Laura on the radio and agreed with her on many, many things. I really miss her show and dropped the radio station when they "dropped" her. I guess you could call me a fan.

    I, too, like her book about the Care and Feeding of Men. I think I'll have to get it out of the library again. I am so fortunate to have a loving husband who works so hard to support our family's lifestyle, takes care of our future and the kids educational needs. I'm know I don't express my appreciation enough.

    I am more like Sue's husband, I suppose. Here I spend hours a day on this goofy site when I could/should be doing (more) chores, etc. I cook and clean and shop and handle the social life and vacation planning, but if he tries to get me to handle some of the other stuff that I really hate and am not good at, I passive aggressively don't do it. Now he's avoiding hauling all the Christmas decorations back into the crawl space. Tit for tat I suppose. But at least he's not going to divorce me over it!

  • bill_vincent
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    For those of you who think we should be taking that "Class #7", there's not a guy on the face of this panet who could pass it!! Hell they could use that test to pick out drag queens!! LOL

    Don't you know that in order to find ANYTHING, you need to have that built in radar device called a UTERUS!! (Atleast that's what my ex always said! ) LMAO

  • paigect
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Cup, you stated that you found the title of this thread, "How did you train your husband," offensive, in that husbands are not dogs. By that standard, isn't the book title you just recommended equally offensive? Isn't "The Proper Care and Feeding" a phrase that originated with respect to caring for animals? And the point of the book is that men are simple, straightforward creatures who are disproportionately emotionally dependent on us? Isn't that extraordinarily patronizing? And what if someone had written that about women? Surely we would be in an uproar.

    Yes, men and women are different. But I find the suggestion that men are less complex than women incredibly sexist.

    Funny, Dr. Laura asserts that you've got all the power, wink wink. Just don't try to assert that power, lest you scare him off. It's all very manipulative and degrading not just to men, but to women as well.

    Blech. Makes me glad to be single, I'll tell ya!

  • mindstorm
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You know what, we have our very own red state/blue state situation on-going in our little microcosm here. Neither set is going to find either much favor or much eye-to-eye with the other and each will offend the other.

    Bottom line, Sue, I hope you're on the road to resolving the whole situation at home.

  • rococogurl
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is a conversation about gender roles and relationships and various viewpoints about them. Religion and politics have been injected, as usual.

    The only thing that's new is that the OP hasn't returned.

    She was clearly in pain. Did we focus enough on her?

  • OllieJane
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have been reading these posts, and all along been saying to myself "Read the Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands by Dr. Laura!" I knew her book wouldn't be popular by some folks here. Dr. Laura has millions of fans, like it or not-she is making a big difference in the world, for the good, imo.

    My DH is exactly as Dr. Laura states: simple. He wouldn't care in the least bit to be called simple. By "simple", she means that most men don't get "caught up" in emotions as easily as women do, or get their feeling hurt as easily, that kind of thing. I has nothing to do with how successful or sophisticated you are. Most women are more complex than men, heck, I wish I was more simple! And I am SO glad as long as DH's needs are met he is happy, which makes me happy because in the long run it all comes back to me usually getting just about everything I want! He's happy, I'm happy-I think that's a good thing, right? So, yes, in reading her book, has shown me I have the "Power" and most women do.

    Thank God, I'm not out there single anymore! I was 30 when I got married and 40 when my DS was born, and I need all the help I can get. Thanks, Dr. Laura!

    Fatlester, you are kidding, right, in that she is homophobic and not married? Because she IS married and is NOT homophobic. Most people who hate her that bad are normally doing something Dr. Laura finds offensive.

    Sorry to offend anyone, but my DH didn't appreciate that I was a total control freak for the first few years of our marriage and since I read her book two years ago, (I listened to her for years on the radio) it has really helped our marriage so much. We were never at the brink of divorce, but I sure didn't want it to end up there! Especially now, with our DS, we want our life as happy as can be for him also.

  • jfrorelo
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sue - if you are still around, my heart goes out to you. My only advice is to look to your heart, your head and your gut. See where they lead you. What do you want? What does your DH want? Where is the common ground? Talk about it with him. Push where you need to, but release where you need to, too.

    To the rest of this wonderful community - I admit, I avoided this thread deliberately for a few days b/c of the title. It just thought it was guaranteed to be controversial. I mean, really, all heck breaks loose if we try to talk about kitchen budgets! (eyes rolling). It's only human to have that feeling/urge to train our spouses, and believe me the words have come out of my mouth, but it isn't reflective of true partnership. I have read other threads (can't remember if they were here or in the Organized Home section) from people frustrated with their in-law's or sibling's or friend's housekeeping, lack of motivation, etc. and the focus was on helping, coaching or shutting eyes and mouth and adapting, but not on training.

    That said, I don't agree with Dr. Laura on just about anything and I consider myself socially liberal but I will jump in to say I thought Cup brought some much-needed balance at a point in the thread where posters seemed to be saying 'dump him'. Which may or may not be a legimate course of action but we are dealing with real people in real life and that is IMHO a rather drastic, hasty judgement to make based on 403 words posted in frustration by OP. (OT - I've been in the situation where I thought a friend was being walked all over for years by her cheatin', lyin', selfish, alcoholic boyfriend and I spoke up b/c I *knew* she should dump him. What a mistake. She didn't want to dump him, he didn't want to be dumped, the only thing that changed was everyone got upset and I lost friends.) It is a cliche, but I think a true one, when there's trouble in a friend's relationship, you offer comfort, positive advice, maybe talk out some options, support them in their decisions and NEVER take sides. Much, much easier said than done!

    Now if we are still going to talk about division of household labor, no one way works for every couple. And I will humbly admit to using many tactics over the years - direct and confrontional, direct and kind, passive-agressive, passive-lazy, paid help, martyr grin-and-bear-it and don't-worry-be-happy. The house is still not up to my 'standards' and I still don't want to spend my time off (mental adjustment needed here on my part b/c working outside the home doesn't mean there's no work to be done inside the home) cleaning. But we've fallen into a bit of a routine. One example, DH does the laundry. I re-fold it and put it away. I no longer try to 'train' him to fold it 'right' or put it away. I just tell myself to be grateful he got it in the washer, in the dryer and in the basket. I try to tell him I'm grateful too. He no longer looks for a trophy for the mantle b/c he did the laundry. This took about a year to *train* myself, LOL.

    Hope this helps in some way and doesn't stir the pot more. Inevitably when we talk about our lifestyle choices, emotions run high and I suppose it can't be helped. I like having these discussions and they are thought provoking but will admit I hate it when posters start taking offense and giving offense and I fear saying anything and getting lumped in with one side or another.

  • bill_vincent
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    By "simple", she means that most men don't get "caught up" in emotions as easily as women do, or get their feeling hurt as easily, that kind of thing.

    Wrong. Sorry to disillusion you, but as far as emotions are concerned, we're no different than you-- the difference is that society doesn't allow us to SHOW it as much.

  • paulines
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't know, I always thought it was the left side vs. the right side of the brain type of thing. Some folk being more analytical, impartial, black & white and the other being somewhat more emotionally driven :)

    Anyway, back to Sue (who is probably having major post regret), think of your situation in terms of a contract and work together to clearly determine 'his responsibilities' and 'your responsibilities' - hash out a mutual agreement (with respect given to the thoughts of both parties). DH may just need his responsibilities better defined and layed out in black & white (without going as far as a list).

    Let him know that renaging (?) on the terms is not an option :)

  • mitchdesj
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bill, you are so right on. Nature vs nurture; we've all been programmed for generations that boys have to be one way and girls the other....
    Religion and society have bought into that and the cycle lives on for generations.
    It's so deeply ingrained though, when will it change?

    People like Dr. Laura don't help much; she offers a simplistic and bandaid-solution; her book is actually funny at first glance but as you read on, it's quite scary to think that she influences a lot of people.

    I think it's an insult to men's intelligence that a sandwich and good sex will make men totally content and grateful to their partner...... it's a good way to spend a saturday afternoon but there has to be more to a solid relationship where both partners feel respected and loved.

  • fatlester
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Olliesmom -- I don't know Dr. Laura and certainly don't "hate" her or anyone. I don't like her ideas and I have a right to say that.

    She is homophobic and very controversial. Do a Google search and see for yourself.

    I do hope I am doing something Dr. Laura finds offensive because I don't respect her opinions and don't feel people should look to her for advice. They should get advice from physicians and psychologists, not radio personalities.

    The idea that men are simple beings who just need love (obviously we all need love and sex) and sex is ludicrous and while it's insulting it's also hilarious to anyone with the least bit of sophistication --by which I mean real life experience.

    Meanwhile, cupofkindness, who I do know a little from here as a lovely person, a devoted mother and a wise soul with ethics is much smarter than Dr. Laura IMO and would never knowing hurt someone. Dr. Laura should be reading a book written by cup, not the reverse.

    If your husband is as simple as Dr. Laura says and her ideas work for you that's great. I wouldn't put you down for it.

    She's a different issue.

  • blsdgal
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    OMG, 40 years old when you had your baby!

    If you asked Dr. Laura, she might suggest you give your child up for adoption since she doesn't like older women having babies, even though she was also an "older mom"--37 I think.

    I was 44 when I had my last pg. She would really disapprove of me.

    And yes, she is homophobic.

    And she's being hateful all the way to the bank.

    Sorry Sue about your problems. I'll bet you wish you hadn't even posted.

  • cupofkindness
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This thread is remarkable. Since I am constantly surrounded by children, the only media that I see or hear is programming aimed at children. So Dr. Laura is an unknown to me. However, I do see the truth in the words in her book. From where I stand, not here on the forum but in my family and among my friends, women/wives tend to drive the relationship. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, that's usually a good thing and that's often why men get married in the first place, the trade-offs vis a vis personal freedom versus companionship and a secure life are well worth it. I think that Dr. Laura's point is that increasingly, women in unstable relationships sometimes drive so hard that they ignore the needs of their husband, assuming that he'll enjoy the ride just because he's in the car with her, regardless of where that car is heading. I think you could compare it to a parent/child. THIS IS NOT TO SAY THAT THE WOMAN IS THE PARENT AND THE HUSBAND IS THE CHILD. But that for the first few years, a parent is simply delighted to do whatever with or for their child. But after 10 or 15 years, it becomes more draining then life-giving.... the umpteenth ballet recital or the x-th soccer tournament just isn't as exciting as the first ones were. In the case of the couple, the love that bound them in the beginning fades and those feelings are replaced by resentment and anger. But where I don't agree with Dr. Laura is that she places a great deal of responsibility on the woman to be aware of the man's disposition and feelings. I think that's rather unfair. However, I haven't finished the book, so I don't know how she'll wrap it up. Regardless, what I have read struck a chord with me. Yes, my husband is fairly simple. His emotions run deep, but he doesn't complicate things by acting on them in harmful ways. So by simple I guess I mean that I don't have to try to figure out what he might be telling me and I never, ever have to worry about manipulation, hidden messages, games. He's honest at every level.

    Anyway, I don't know where I am going with this, I've forgotten because my four year old has interrupted so many times and I need to drive him to school.

    Jane, I must admit that I do seek your good opinion of me and now I find myself apologizing again on this thread for having offended you as well. Thank you for your gracious remarks in the post just above this one. I'll check in later, I'm running late. My son is actually in the parked van in the drive-way honking the horn!

  • jerzeegirl
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would be totally surprised if the OP ever returns to this thread. She has been posting over in "discussions" so she's not away from her computer.

  • fatlester
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Cindy, you owe me no apology.

    I agree with jerzeegirl.

    This thread has been a bit harsh in a lot of ways, especially for someone in pain. I'm not sure we served the OP very well.

    But I'm sure everyone feels they mean well. Fortunately or unfortunately it's what happens when one puts out a personal problem for strangers with unfettered opinions and such a wide variety of viewpoints to comment on.

  • cupofkindness
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jane:

    Thank you.

  • 3katz4me
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow - this thing really got out of control. I always find it a little amazing how some of these things take on a life of their own and the OP is long gone.....

  • OllieJane
    18 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    blsdgal, actually Dr. Laura states that over 40 years is a little late in having children. I just "made it" by her standard. However, I don't agree with everything she says and I certainly don't think what she says is written in stone. I just think that she makes things very simple to understand. Just a note, if I had waited any longer than 40, I truly do think it would have been too old. I almost feel that way now, sometimes. Health has become a major issue for me, since I want to live a long time to see my DS grow up and see my grandchildren. I certainly see why she thinks a certain age is adviseable. Of course, she wouldn't want you to give your child up for adoption, just because you got pregnant after 40, as long as there is a husband. If you listen to her at all, you know she is talking about single women getting pregnant, and a child growing up without a father. I know, another can of worms....

    I just want to point out, that Dr. Laura states that MOST men are simple. The one's that frequent on this particular forum, may not fit in that catagory, imo. My DH, a simple fella, would never "fit in" with a bunch of women having conversations. Nor do most the men I know. Nothing wrong with that at all, just wanted to point that out.

    I teach Kindergarten, and year after year, there is definately a difference in boys and girls personalities, and any Kindergarten teacher will probably tell you that.
    Every so often there are a few boys that don't act like the other boys, but, I'm talking the majority.