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carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

Posted by Energywise.ks (My Page) on
Sun, Dec 8, 13 at 19:41

We just built a new home in central Kansas this year, the following are some the specs on the house;
750 square feet main level with full finished basement and attached two car garage. Attic has R-50 blown cellulose over house and R-30 over garage. Walls has 3 inches closed cell spray foam main level and rim joist area. The basement and garage walls has 1.5 inch closed cell foam. Windows are all triple pane Crestline with energysheild. Doors are all energy star rated. Manual J' called for just over a 1 ton unit for cooling. But wanted the hp to handle winter heating without kicking in emergency heat strips.

The following is the heat pump system installed;
25VNA024A003 carrier 20 seer infinity variable speed w/greenspeed HP
SNVNA- 1513E27248
FE4ANF002T00 carrier infinity variable speed fan coil
SNFC-1213A86681
SYSTXCCITW01 carrier infinity Wi - Fi greenspeed touch screen
SNTSTAT-5112W003883
GAPABXCC1620 carrier 16 x 20" infinity fan coil air purifier
HUMCCSBP2412 carrier 12 gallon small bypass humidifier
KFCEH3001F15 15 Kilowatt hour heater with fuse
Sheet metal kit- plenum, R/A Drop, Sheet metal, ductwork
2 ton line set, fitting. Drain kit, and labor.

My question is I would like to get more details on the setup service settings. This was the second one of these greenspeed units our carrier contractor has done and showed me how to access the settings and said we would have to play with the settings to achieve efficiency and comfort levels we were happy with. First question is on the lockouts I noticed that my emergency heat strip were running allot so I set the lock out at the lowest setting 5 degrees and selected no heat strip during defrost. No lock out for the heat pump but when the system is in control it still is running heat strip as indicated on my daily energy usage. When I set the thermostat heat source to heat pump only it does not use emergency heat at all and keeps up just fine. Coldest night was 0 degrees set at 73 in the house heat pump only. Ran for about an hour than would shutdown for around 15 min and start again. I would prefer the system to be in control but it shouldn't be kicking in emergency heat if the heat pump can handle the load.

I want to get the settings set to the most efficient settings to get the most out of this system. Some my other questions is on the fan speeds min and max for the hp and inside fan. He set the compressor max rpm at 5000 does that sound right? Any benefit in moving the rpm up or down in life of the compressor and efficiency? Any other settings I can check to improve performance?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

Thanks for replying to my thread Energywise.ks. I posted a reply there.

In response to your questions....
I set my heat pump lockout at none and my gas furnace at 25 degrees F. The only reason for this is so that I don't have to deal with the loud heat pump noise when sleeping at night. Else, I would keep it to its lowest settings.

I would also leave it to YES for "defrost with heat strip" for the reason that it will blow cold air into your house during defrost. Your heat pump will then have to re-heat the house you've just cooled during defrost. I struggled with this decision also and upon much research, this method was most efficient.

I'm amazed that your greenspeed was able to heat your house to 73 at 0 degrees outside!

I leave my min and max air flow to disabled so that the system will adjust accordingly.

My heat pump rpm is set to MAX which is 7000. The benefit would be to maximize performance.

How were you able to get your Energy Tracking to work? I have a new board on the HP but mine still does not work. I don't bother calling the dealer since I have little confidence in them.


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

Hello chillycold,

I tried the defrost in both modes and noticed I used 15 kw less per day with the strips off during defrost. The temp dropped to 72 only one time that I saw and never notice when it defrosts. I was also surprised the heat pump did so well at 0 especially when max rpm was set at 5000. In the service under installation it auto detected my equipment and did the airflow test for min max and static. I was wondering if the system setup airflow automatically or if the settings had to be set manually based on the test results. I am not sure how they got the energy tracker to work it always has since the install. I love getting daily feedback of changes I make.

This post was edited by Energywise.ks on Mon, Dec 9, 13 at 10:40


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

I don't know if the system auto detects but looking at your 2 ton HP spec in the carrier product document, it is rated at 5700 RPM for max speed heating. A mere 700 rpm shouldn't make a difference but you could try it since your energy tracker provides you with daily feedback.


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

The max rpm was set at 7000 but when I complained about the excessive noise they reduced it to 5000. I wasn't overly confident in their knowledge because as he was going through the settings he was unable to answer simple questions on how the settings might effect how the system operates...

This post was edited by Energywise.ks on Mon, Dec 9, 13 at 10:55


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

Finding a competent HVAC technician is most difficult to say the least.

There is a installation manual you can download. Here it is:

Here is a link that might be useful: installation manual


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

A more specific question on compressor rpm;

Even when it was 0 outside we could maintain 73 inside temp except after defrost which dropped inside temp but recovered easily. Watching the operating status screen it would ramp up to 100% for a couple minutes then taper down to 75% for about 25 min then a couple minutes at around 50% before it shuts down. If it didn't defrost it didn't even hit 100%.

If I still have extra capacity would it be a good idea to lower the max rpm? Is the variable rpm 40-100% based off the max rpm setting or would it just narrow the operating Window? For example would the minimum stay the same rpm at 40% and change the max 100% rpm to what I set? Would this improve efficiency ie less cycling? And would the compressor last longer because it not working as hard?

Operating heat pump only with no heat strips during defrost and handling the cold with ease...


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

We had another single digit low last night and decided to test a couple changes in my settings. I changed the defrost from auto to 120 min based on another member's good results and also reduced my compressor max rpm to 4800. Immediately I noticed an improvement in the noise level.

It got down to around 3 degrees and I also noticed slightly longer run times but on the operating status it would still run at 100% than slowly taper off until the system shut off. Still maintaining 73 in the house and I will see the result on daily electrical usage tomorrow. I have been getting 32 kilowatt per day on similar temps.


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

I conducted an opposite experiment last night. I set my max compressor rpm to 6500 but in order for the system to reach its maximum, I also needed to set my AC/HP air flow at MAX vice COMFORT. If your air flow is set to comfort, your compressor will never reach max rpm during heating. Carrier literature indicate that at max setting, airflow is set at 400 cfm per ton ensuring max performance.

So the ultimate question is, is there more savings by max performance with shorter heating run times or by lowering operation performance (via reduction of rpm) with longer run times?

But it seems one thing is certain, reduction in compressor rpm is directly proportional to reduction in noise level.

This post was edited by chillycold on Mon, Dec 9, 13 at 18:07


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

Chillycold did you see any result from your test? My unit ran longer cycles and the defrost seemed longer, probably as a result of the longer run time. So it increased the energy usage.

Now I set defrost back to auto and max rpm to 5700 as it states in the manual and see how that does. Keep me updated of you discover any settings that impact the efficiency.


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

It will be awhile before we have some more really cold days to see results but think I will leave the max rpm at 5700; "from the product manual", auto defrost, comfort heating, efficient cooling, and leave fan speeds disabled and let the system control fan speeds based off the installation. I still have heat strips disabled during defrost and heat source set on heat pump only. I will let the system learn these settings and have been getting good results. Highs are mid thirties and lows are in the teens and averaging 23 kilowatt hours per day usage. In the summer it is much lower costing me about 1 dollar every three days. At 8 cents per kilowatt hour.

The one change I would want is to be able to set the heat strip lockout lower! Currently the lowest is 5 degrees but I would like to set it at -5. I am not sure where the best place would be to voice my suggestion would be?

This post was edited by Energywise.ks on Thu, Dec 12, 13 at 1:02


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

How did you lock out heat strip during defrost mode??


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

On the service settings hit service and hold it till it turns green. About 10 sec. Then go to setup then heat source lock out. I set hp lockout at none electric heat lockout above 5 and defrost with electric heat as No. But I wish I could set the electric lockouts lower. For now under heat source under the normal menu I have it set as hp only instead of system in control.


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

My test was inconclusive as there was too much temperature fluctuation from the day before and my wife using the electric oven and the dryer.

I will leave mine on 6500 (for 4 ton), auto defrost (best setting IMO) with defrost with gas heat, max airflow for heating, and min/max airflow to disabled. I just upgraded my firmware but my energy tracking still does not work so I'm at a disadvantage in terms of monitoring actual KW/hr.

I'm currently dealing with another annoyance; one of my lineset is making a knocking noise (3 to 6 knocks) during defrost near the heat pump. I can't tell if it's the liquid tube line (smaller tube) or the suction tube line (larger tube). The line knocks only when defrosting. Please let me know if you have similar problems. I apologize in advance for asking this in your thread.


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

No problem about asking questions on my thread as I am wanting to hear about all problems and benefits of this system even though we have some size and application differences. Haven't heard the knocking you describe but my line set enters the basement and haven't had a chance to listen closely during a defrost. I will update when I can give a definitive answer.


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

I set up my set backs as follows; 
Sleep 1030 pm 70 
Wake 0930 am 71 
Home 1100 am 72 
away 70 
Theory is that it will work less during the night when it is coldest out and make it comfortable when we are up around the house with one degree adjustments. This has worked better than a constant 72 degrees. I will post some picks of difference in energy usage on days with the same temps.


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

Before I went through settings.


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

After the changes


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

Looks like I will get a severe test of our 2 ton greenspeed's ability to heat our home. This Saturday we are to get light snow then the low on Sunday is supposed to plummet to -6 f with a windchill of around -22 f. I have the heat s trips locked out but can access the thermostat with my phone and I will see if carrier greenspeed heatpump can truly handle the worst of what Kansas winters can offer.

With current settings been averaging around 20 kwh per day and I will update how it performs on one of our coldest nights!


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

Well it made it without using the backup heat strips. Although it struggled a little bit and dipped to 67 over night set at 68 and took all day to hit the 73 set point during the day. But is was able to recover the energy usage was 45 kwh per day for the two days of the artic cold front. I was very surprised it was able to handle such cold weather! I am guessing our homes balance point is -3 degrees Fahrenheit. After that the heat pump starts to lose ground with each defrost because I have the backup heat off during defrost. And selected heat pump only for heat source.


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

Are those 20/45 kWh/day numbers for just the heating system?

We tend to run about 33 kWh/day during the spring and fall with just hot water (we have a DSH but obviously it's not doing too much when avg temp is in the 40-60's), whole house usage goes up to 45 kWh or so when temps start warming up in the summer (avg 75-80 but that includes some 90+ degree days, like a whole week of them this July), but really jumps (to 75 -82 kWh/day) when avg temps are below freezing (again that means some isolated nights below zero), typically in Feb but one winter it was in Jan - prob see the same this next bill.

Tranquility 27 049 with 2 Aux Heat strips, 2 279ft deep wells, I can't say what the EWT is right now (or typical Feb) but our water well is 500ft deep and the cold water tap is bone-numbingly cold if you turn it on in the AM.


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

Ajsmama,

Yes those numbers are off our thermostat for the daily energy usage of the heatpump system. 45 kwh is the highest I have seen and the temps were high 10 low -6 with windchill around -20. That is as cold as kansas gets, so it was a great load test of our new system.

Been averaging daily; 19 kwh winter, 3 kwh fall, and we are waiting to see how it does in the spring and summer.


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

Thanks - was just checking that wasn't for your whole house electricity usage. I don't have anything to compare ours to, no separate meter for heat/hot water. But for a family of 4 (with a teenage boy who runs XC and track, and a preteen girl who both like LONG hot showers!) and 2500sf 2 story house, attached (unfinished, fully vented) garage and walkup (unfinished, vented) attic I figured that wasn't bad. A lot of people with similar-sized houses and families around here spend within $50/mo of what we do (we're on budget plan to even out those huge bills in the winter) on electricity alone, and then have heat and sometimes even hot water with gas or oil so that more than eats up the "extra" $50/mo we spend on electricity. The people in my family (mostly aunts and uncles, so smaller households) who heat with wood or oil are aghast at what we spend, but they forget that they're spending $2000+ a year on oil, or having to buy wood ($200/cord) or cut it themselves. Of course CT has one of the highest electricity rates in the country, we've got a budget supplier (8cents/kWh) but "delivery" rate(s) are 7.25cents/kWh - it's actually come down, a couple of years ago I think we were paying 18c/kWh total.

So we only pay electricity and phone (which seems high at $50/mo considering we have no long distance service and only 1.5Mbps DSL), no cable TV. DH thinks we can save more $ by doing solar hot water instead of heating the final tank (we have a buffer tank the DSH dumps into) but we checked into that a couple of years ago, didn't get definitive numbers, would have had to cut a lot of trees on the south side of the house and I was afraid the (slight) decrease in our winter hot water heating bill wouldn't make up for increased cooling costs in the summer. The DSH provides all the hot water we need in the summer, the solar would have just helped keep the 2nd tank warm instead of using the electricity to maintain the 120F. I don't think solar would really have helped at all in the winter, even with cutting the trees.


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

I purchased a heat pump water heater which works pretty good but I also like a really hot shower so I have been trying to figure out whether it would be more efficient to put a point of use electric water heater as a booster.

For example current temp on the hpwh- is 135. The low flow shower temp is ok but still feels like it could be warmer. But at the sinks they get very hot. My idea is to set the hpwh-100 and the point of use at 135 so I have perfect shower temp but not having to keep the tank that hot 24/7. I think it would be more efficient but not sure.

Our goal is to get our house electric usage down to 500 kwh per month average and the install solar panels to cover 100%. This is not counting what our chevy volt uses which is an additional 200 kwh per month. But as we have only lived here for 3 months we are still evaluating and saving where we find waste.

Your numbers sound reasonable we only have two in the house and it is about half the size of yours. This was intentional when we built it as small as possible to reduce energy required to heat and cool.


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

My (GE) Heat Pump Hot Water Heater has a minimum permissible set point of 120 degrees - 120 is what I control at.

YMMV

This post was edited by saltidawg on Wed, Jan 8, 14 at 20:06


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

I also have the GE- HPWH. I am sure the minimum setpoint was less than 120 but will have to double check. 120 seems a little high for a minimum but I have only had it for 3 months and haven't tried turning it all the way down.


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

Which model is that? A guy DH works with needs to replace his hot water heater, DH told him to look at GeoSpring but I read that switches to electric below 45 degrees and while there is some residual heat from (propane? oil?) furnace in their basement, I don't know if it could drop below that temp with the GeoSpring down there, and a cold spell. I suggested tankless, whole-house tankless shouldn't be hard to install, or perhaps just replace with fossil-fuel powered one since they have the furnace anyway.


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

Hi All,

I have brand new 4 tone carrier INFINITY GREENSPEED 25VNA0 heat pump installed in Montreal, Canada ( pretty cold in the winter ) with a electrical furnace as backup. When the temp reach 1F, the heat pump create an extreme noise, I could here it from very far and from within the house. I called the installation company, and when the technician came to check, he lowered the RPM from 5700 to 5200. now the noise level reach 80 dba when the heat pump are running at 75% (of 5200rpm), I checked the heat pump doc and this seems to be not normal, a 4 ton HP running at 6300 should produce 76 dba.

The installer mentioned that they over dimensioned the heat pump and lower the RPM to reduce the noise. I would like to know if you guys did measure the noise on your heat pump when running at 100% ? that would help me get some stat. thank you


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

Energywise.ks,

"I also have the GE- HPWH. I am sure the minimum setpoint was less than 120 but will have to double check. ..."

Thanks, I learned something.

The Manual says the Default Temp Setting is 120 degrees and the user can set the Temp to anywhere up to 135 degrees. I (mistakenly) took that to mean that 120 degrees was the minimum.

I just went to my heater and found that I could set it lower in controlling temp. I leave it at 120 degrees as there is virtually no risk of scalding, but it keeps my wife happy!

It was nice to get info from someone that actually has one of these, lots of terrible info out there!

Thanks again for the info!

This post was edited by saltidawg on Fri, Jan 10, 14 at 12:09


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

Lemarin,

Did not have any way to measure the noise level but the first time the temp got down to 5 degrees it was loud enough I was also concerned. Mine was set at max rpm 7000. Which was to high for my 2 ton unit. 5700 is what it is set at now which is the recommended setting in the manual.

Your 4 ton should be capable of running 6500 rpm and anything less is going to reduce your available heating capacity. This may not be an issue if you unit can still maintain setpoint down to 0 degrees without backup heat. If it can't you are missing out on some efficiency. They measure sound from a certain distance from the unit and yours could be louder based on system charge and the way your line set is run. Also I have heard of muffler placement and I think my contractor mentioned adding an additional muffler?

All heat pumps are loud when heating below freezing but this new one is definitely louder than the comfort model we had at our last house.

This post was edited by Energywise.ks on Sat, Jan 11, 14 at 2:32


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

Saltidog,

With the help of this forum in the plumbing thread I found that my problem with my shower temp was the anti-scald adjustment. After changing it I was able to reduce my GE heatpump water heater to 122 and have perfect hot water in the shower. I am sure I will see savings from changing it from 135 to 122. I read that much below that temp legionnaires disease can breed in the tank.


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

Thanks energywise.ks. When the heat pump was running at 5700 rpm, and when it was cold (-20C or -4F), the noise level was extreme, I could hear the noise from 60 meters. It was absolutely not normal. The solution the installer had is to reduce the rpm which will reduce the heat output of the Heatpump.

I do measure noise using an iPhone app.... FYI

When you say 0 degrees is it C or F?

I have a muffler installed, and at -15c I see sometimes the electric furnaise element number 1 kick in. The installation guys are telling me that noise is normal and they over dimensioned my system ( my house needs only 3.2 ton) to 4 ton so that they could reduce the rpm to lower the noise level.

I am not convince with their answer, I wanted to check with other homeowner what noise level there greenspeed heatpump produce ? That would help me assess the situation and decide what to do. Thank you


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

Lemarin,

I downloaded an app from android to measure mine but it won't be cold enough for awhile. I would not buy into their reason for turning down the rpm. I oversized because my manual j was figured for cooling and wanted some extra capacity for winter.

Fyi all my temps are F not C.

The whole sales pitch was better heating capabilities because it can over speed the compressor to handle lower temps than a normal heat pump. If they are limiting the rpm than why did we spend so much for this technology?

If you set your rpm to the max from the manual than you will use less backup heat; or possibly like me never need it until the compressor breaks down with the right size and settings. That's why I paid the premium price. I would make them address the noise another way. That's my opinion...

Will update on how many db mine is.


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

Hi Energywise.ks,

Here is few measures :
temp = 0F, noise=82dba (one inch away from the heat pump)
temp=-14F, noise=80dba (one inch away from the heat pump)

I realized that when the temp goes below -1F, both the heatpump and the furnace (stage 1, one elemenet) are working. I am not sure if it is quite efficient to have both furnace and heat pump working ? that could explain that the noise was lower at -14F, since the heat pump was getting help from the Furnace to heat the house, hence had to work less.

Thanks
BR


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RE: carrier infinity with greenspeed service settings

Lemarin,

I am considering installing a 3-ton greenpseed here in Nova Scotia and was wondering if you got your noise issue resolved?


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