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mcatp_gw

How to decide between Elec or Combo

mcatp
11 years ago

So I'm at the beginning stages of upgrading my a/c and furnace. I have no clue as to when they were installed, but if it is like everything else in my house when I bought it, they are probably about 15-20 years old. Right now I have a natural gas furnace and a stand along a/c.

I've been looking at pretty much all the options, a new separate a/c and furnace, heat pump, package unit, hybrid etc. I need some help getting opinions on what to even start talking about when I call and ask for bids, because I do NOT want to sound uninformed.

Live in the Upstate of South Carolina, within an hour of both the NC border and GA border. Last natural gas bill was $51.29 for 51 therms and electric bill was $60.32 for 566 KWH.

Right now I'm leaning towards a package unit just to get them both done at one time, but not a hybrid system. Any thoughts?

Comments (16)

  • tigerdunes
    11 years ago

    Duke Power customer?

    If so stick with high eff two stage var speed furnace paired with matching 15 SEER AC. That is your sweet spot.

    Because of advancing electric costs and relatively cheap nat gas, dual fuel has very little economic advantage-at this particular moment.

    IMO

  • mcatp
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Yep, I'm on Duke Power. So go with the nat. gas furnace and electric a/c? Going to go do some more studying.

  • tigerdunes
    11 years ago

    High eff 95% eff furnace Is the key. If you decide on 80% eff furnace, then consider HP due to relatively moderate winter temp.

    Still like my first recommendation the most.

    I live in upstate and installed dual fuel system in 2004. At the time there was a 30% leverage between electric and nat gas. That has all but disappeared.

    IMO

  • energy_rater_la
    11 years ago

    is your duct system for heating only
    and a/c not central?
    is that what you mean by
    "Right now I have a natural gas furnace and a stand along a/c." stand alone a/c not central?

  • countryboymo
    11 years ago

    I know gas prices have been stable for an extended period but nothing lasts forever. I would check the differential cost of heat pump/ac to just a/c. IF gas prices jumped again it probably wouldn't take long to save the difference. I would think on resale as more and more people look at operating costs and not just payments that it would help with a sale. I doubt it would increase the value but would be helpful.

  • tigerdunes
    11 years ago

    I on also on DP and PNG, live in the SC upstate, have a DF system so I can speak on this subject with a high degree of authority. The operating leverage between electric and nat gas for heating fuel has all but disappeared. The primary reason is that electric rates are controlled through rate commissions and nat gas rates are more determined through market force conditions.

    People who invest in DF systems based on future rates do so at their peril unless they have a very accurate crystal ball. While previous poster makes point on a connection of resale value and HVAC, this simply is not a factor for buyers.

    IMO

  • mike_home
    11 years ago

    Also consider the fact that many coal fired power plants are being converted to natural gas. If gas prices go up you would expect the price of electricity to also rise.

  • mcatp
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Thanks for the things to think about.

    Natural gas is pretty prevalent around this area, so unless they are from out of the area most would, maybe not expect, but it be a good 50/50 shot of the house having gas heat.

    I still don't see how it would be in my benefit to have only a heat pump when my electric rates are so much higher than my natural gas costs. That would seem to prepare for the future that may never come, but end up paying high prices anyway.

  • energy_rater_la
    11 years ago

    if the duct system was sized for heating only
    there will be an issue in adding hvac.
    heating is lower velocity than a/c.
    so sizing of duct system will need to be
    modified.
    this would be a good time to mastic ducts also.
    (ducts, plenums, plenums to equipment and
    sealing supply boxes where they enter the living
    space.) mastic, mastic, mastic tape.

    if electric rates are so high...then gas furnace
    (90+%).
    a/c is what eats up utility costs.
    your bill will be high in summer when a/c is
    in use.
    dual fuel heat pump set up would be heat pump
    operation when temps are above 35 degrees,
    then switch to gas heat when temps are below
    the 35 degree.

    if you have had gas heat before...heat pump heat
    will be cooler heat temp. older people, or folks
    like me with thin blood..it's an adjustment.

    If I had access to natural gas, rather than propane..
    I would have chosen ng furnace. @ $2.88 per gallon
    propane costs...it was a no brainer to go heat pump.
    (just in case electricity goes out...I left gas
    heater installed on wall in living room) don't like
    cold!

    if you would comment on the duct system advice would
    be easier. it is a bad thing to have duct system
    with high static pressure during a/c mode,
    even though for heating only...the system worked well.
    having an added cost of duct modification at the last
    minute....would be upsetting when budgeting for install.

    best of luck

  • david_cary
    11 years ago

    You would never not use NG. Dual fuel is a $500+ option that allows you to use a heat pump to supplement the NG when it is appropriate rate wise.

    The dual fuel option can be free by downgrading the efficiency on the NG furnace to compensate. It can be the cheapest choice but it is hard to say and does require a crystal ball.

    If you are wanting flexibility and good value and you are planning on staying awhile, then 90% eff NG furnace with a seer 15/16 heat pump would be what I would do (and what I've done). Sure the heat pump is not a savings most of the time but if NG goes up in price, then it would help. But I totally get the argument that a heat pump isn't worth it right now.

  • mcatp
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    I already have central a/c installed. What I meant with stand alone a/c was what I have found to be referred to as a split system, I think. I am already semi-prepared for having to change the ducts some since part of my problem is no flow to my master bedroom and that side of the house.

    My current a/c is a master chef unit that probably hadn't been serviced in many years before I bought the house. We are talking about the classic 1960 ranch which hasn't had much upgrades since.

    I am expecting to maybe not completely start from scratch but a good reno of it all just like the bathroom last year!

  • tigerdunes
    11 years ago

    How old is your AC and furnace?

    IMO

  • mcatp
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Where do you look to find this out? I've looked for a plate or something on my a/c unit, but couldn't find anything. My furnace is in my crawl space.

  • tigerdunes
    11 years ago

    Should be a data plate on the outside of the AC condenser back panel with mdl, size, and ser number. On furnace, usually on the inside door of control panel.

    IMO

  • mcatp
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    So I looked at my a/c unit for any kind of identifying model numbers, but it doesn't have any on the plate. It only has what it is rated. It is a Magic Chef brand. Does that give you a clue as to how old it is?

  • tigerdunes
    11 years ago

    No, tells me nothing...