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ncrealestateguy

When Repalcing Heat Pump, Do You Have To Replace Furnace Too?

ncrealestateguy
11 years ago

My York 3 ton heat pump's compressor is locking up in defrost mode, and the valves are making noise in run mode. I got a quote for a 3.5 ton, 16 SEER, Amana two stage for $10,000 installed. The guy says that the electric furnace needs to be replaced too, if I replace the heat pump. He also says I need to replace my duct work with one that is two inches larger. I am in Charlotte, NC. Three questions:
1. Do I really need to replace the electric furnace too? It is running fine.
2. How does this price sound? (parts and labor)
3. Do I really need to replace the duct work?

Comments (20)

  • ncrealestateguy
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    IMO,
    House is 6 years old. All electric,
    The HVAC guy is measuring more sq. ftg. than a 3 ton should be installed for.
    I do not know what size of the auxilary heat strips I have. I currently have 14 inch ducts... he says I need to have 16 inch if I upgrade to a two stage, 16 SEER unit. Why can't I just buy a new compressor and keep my perfectly good furnace? Thanks for responding.

  • tigerdunes
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Post model numbers of existing outside condenser and inside air handler. With a system this age, perhaps you can use existing inside air handler.

    What equipment has dealer quoted you? Have you even received a quote to repair your condenser? Have you thought about getting a second opinion? Two stage condensers are only available in full ton sizes, ie 2,3,4,5 ton size, no 1/2 ton sizes. Are you certain you are being quoted a 3 1/2 ton system?

    What size is your home? Any problems cooling and heating home with existing system?

    Post back.

    IMO

  • ncrealestateguy
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I just looked at the quote again...
    It is for a 14 SEER Amana heat pump that he would add a variable speed blower to bring it up to a 15 SEER. $8276.00
    He did not give any info on what specs the furnace would be. The sq. ftg. the system would be heating and cooling is 2183.
    Either you or he is wrong... he is quoting a 3.5 ton with two stage heating and cooling and with a variable speed blower.
    I believe the existing system uses the new refridgerant. I have not received a quote for the repair (replacement) of the compressor. I will call someone today.

  • mike_home
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A quote is not complete unless it has the model numbers of the equipment. Ask the HVAC contractor to supply this information.

    I don't understand why you need an electric furnace in North Carolina. I would think properly sized heat strips would be sufficient for your mild winters.

    Find out the what the parts warranty is for your York heat pump. If it is 10 years then you may only need to pay for the labor charges.

  • ncrealestateguy
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The electric furnace kicks in when the temp drops below 35 degrees. It has electric heat strips. Maybe my terminology is not correct here. Is it not called a furnace? It is located in the crawlspace. It can get cold here at night during the winters. (Jan and Feb)I have another guy coming here today for another opinion.
    The warrant for the York is only five years, I was told, and needed to have been registered by the builder, which mine was not.

  • tigerdunes
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My advice is to get a York dealer out to your home and see if he can match up a new HP condenser with your 6 yr old York air handler. You might also see what exactly is wrong with old condenser and cost to repair.

    And yes, run don't walk away from Amana dealer. I believe he has his interests above yours.

    And for Mike's post, a HP s very desirable for the usual mild winters Charlotte has over straight heat strip heating, especially for those in an all electric situation.

    IMO

  • weedmeister
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    one of the reasons you would need to replace the blower unit is that it is not the same brand as the what you are buying. The new coil most likely will not fit in it.

    YOu would have better luck (though not a guarantee) to stay with the same brand.

  • ncrealestateguy
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, I tried to get someone over here to give me a quote for a new compressor today. When I called, they expected me to wait around for a 4 hour window. I told them that was unacceptable and that they would have to narrow it down. She said she could not. I told her I could not do that scenario. 30 minutes later, I get a call back from the same place from some guy, saying that he could be here at 4:00. I also explained to him that all I wanted was to get an estimate on a new compressor and did not want to pay the $79 service call. He actually agreed to not charge me the fee.
    Fast forward to 4:15! I get a call from these folks asking me if I still needed them to come out! And if I did, it would be sometime before 7:00, and that there would be a $69 service fee. Of course, I told them to go pound sand.
    So, back to square one.
    Weedmiester, why would I need a new coil for the blower unit if I plan on keeping it?
    I can't believe buying a new compressor is being so complicated.

  • energy_rater_la
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    just fyi
    with a heat pump the indoor unit
    is an air handler unit. the electric
    strips go inside ahu.

    keep calling. you don't pay a service
    charge for a bid.

    I'm with tigerdunes about amana dealer.

    best of luck

  • ncrealestateguy
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    OK... Thanks energy rater.
    I did my own research and found out that my unit is a Bryant... not a York, like they told me.
    Can I purchase this unit, and have it hook up to my existing air handler?
    http://www.coolbreezehvac.com/product/evolution-system-heat-pump

  • ncrealestateguy
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    BTW... I need to heat/cool about 2200 sq. ft. and am in zone 3 and have an above avg. amount of windows. House is 6 years old.
    What size heat pump do I need? I am getting all sorts of answers from online calculators.

  • mike_home
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    On line calculators are useless. The contractor should do a heating and cooling load calculation in order to determine the correct size. The proper way to do it is measure the living area, windows, and verify the insulation of the house. This information is entered into a software program which calculates the heat gain and loss for your area. Most contractors don't want to take the time to do this calculation.

    Contractors tend to oversize equipment. Bigger is not better when it comes to HVAC equipment.

  • energy_rater_la
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    hvac-talk has a loac calc you can pay
    a small fee and use for a few weeks.

    have hvac company do a load calc.

    why if house & system are only 6 years
    old has the system failed?
    that would be my question.
    what caused it to fail?

    best of luck

  • tigerdunes
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I agree with energy rater about using the online HVAC Calc program. Cost is minimal and well worth it. But generally you should know by old condenser's performance if it was able to heat and cool your home adequately. Did you have any specific problems? Especially in cooling mode because HPs are sized for cooling especially for a location like Charlotte. You should verify size of outside existing condenser. Post model number. Certainly a Bryant is not a York. I suspect you could get a basic 13 SEER HP to match a 6 yr old inside air handler. That Is probably
    your least expensive solution if you prefer to use existing air handler and if condenser can not be repaired economically. Good thing weather is mild this week. Of course, you can heat on emergency strip heat until you make a decision, but that comes with a price.

    Post back. Good Luck.

    IMO

  • weedmeister
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "why would I need a new coil for the blower unit if I plan on keeping it? "

    Because the inside coil and outside condenser need to match. Mismatching is like trying to put a Ford motor into a Chevy. I mean, you can do it but it just ain't right. You won't get what you are paying for in terms of efficiency (it won't cool or heat as well).

  • ncrealestateguy
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The current, old system has worked well for the last 6 years, and is currently working. The reason I am going to replace it is because the condenser freezes up and in defrost mode the compressor is locking up, per the one HVAC guy. The compressor valves are making noises too. Another HVAC guy told me that the ice is probably from a refrigerant leak and that over the last two years of this leaking, it has put stress on the compressor. He also is saying that more than likely, the leak is in the coils which are located in the air handler! This is all making my head spin. Does this sound legit?
    Does anyone have any comments on the unit I posted a link to above?
    Current model #s:
    Heat pump: 213ANA036-A Bryant
    Air Handler: FY4ANF036 Carrier

  • energy_rater_la
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    is this the only hvac contractor to look
    at the unit?

    all of this might be fixable, find refrigerant
    leaks, reolace compressor (if needed)
    test for leak at coil.
    now if the coils leak..that you replace.

    but do yourself a favor..get another
    bid or two.

    heat pump should last 15 years.

    I'd be leary of buying unit on your
    own for someone to install.

    best of luck

  • ncrealestateguy
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    energy rater posts:
    "I'd be leary of buying unit on your
    own for someone to install."
    Why is that?
    And yes, I have someone else coming out to take a look.

  • energy_rater_la
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    lots of reasons. some you can solve by lateral
    moves, others not so much.

    so think of this.
    you work at pizza hut. a customer comes
    in and wants to eat there, but brings
    their own pizza. offers to pay you to
    cook it..but minimal payment for use of
    your tools expertiese ect.
    sounds crazy doesn't it.
    but to the pizza hut worker/mgr..it is
    insulting, cheap and not something they
    would be willing to do. so how to get them
    to do it...overpay them.
    where is your profit from what you saved online now?
    and hopefully, before they slid your pizza
    into their pizza oven..the didn't spit on it.
    why...cause its human nature.

    think about some wisea$$ comming to your job
    and expecting you do do whatever you do..for
    lesser cost, cause they got a deal.

    people want to save money..we get it.
    and online prices look so much better than
    actually paying for the things you don't see
    when you purchase your equipment from hvac
    installer.
    we have experience, insurances, support if things
    go wrong.

    even then for you online shopper...
    who warranties the equipment? sure you can go
    online & warrenty with mfg
    but that leads to second question...who
    services the unit?
    the guy you hired to install it?

    see...when you 'think' you know more than
    the company you hire..it leads to some very
    human responses.

    hvac company will charge you a premium price
    to install equipment you purchase from someone
    else. they will hesitate to do the work..then
    as things go wrong..you'll pay over and over
    for undercutting them in the first place.

    so..think it would be simpler to hire one company
    to do the discounted profit install
    and another to do any work later?
    ahhh in a perfect to you world.

    we talk to each other..and in my area we
    all know who will jack us, pick apart every move
    we make..and who has the faith in us to just let
    us do our jobs. we charge them accordingly.
    ever wonder why one bid is $xx higher than the
    other one..your personality tips us off.

    so we know going in..that it will take longer than
    usual due to interference. so pita charge is added.
    we call it different things, but it is the cost
    of doing business with someone questioning every move
    due to some half baked idea that they know more
    than us.

    sure you can hire some hack..save a few more
    bucks..but we make really good money going back
    and straightening out these jobs. really good money.
    what you save upfront...you pay in the long run
    times 2 or 3 times more.

    this company who agrees to do work on the side is
    stealing from the company owner by doing work
    on the side.
    want to hire a crook to do your install?
    think of what they risk by doing this..losing their
    job..and having a hard time in the hvac community cause
    now every owner knows they can't trust them..
    hey but you got a deal!

    good techs, are paid well by their
    employers and would NEVER do this.
    a company that agrees to do an install of
    online equipment..is either the low ball guy
    who does it fast bad & cheap..or you lucked into
    a good company going through a slow time who
    needs the work. the latter being about as common
    as wings on a pig.

    install is as important as equipment. you'll read
    us commenting upon that over and over. good equipment &
    bad install..you get crap. problems over and over.

    I'm in the trades. While I don't do hvac, I am licensed
    and have experience. Even went to school for it.
    I go to heat pump association meetings & know all
    the players in my area.and how they all gossip like
    a bunch of teenagers.

    so last summer...I was ready for my central install.
    ran all my duct, inside conditioned space, built fur
    downs for duct. converted my linen closet into heating
    closet. platform installed & sealed, supply plenum
    ready to be installed. Return sealed & filter rack
    installed.
    I had heating system(ahu) delivered & we sat it in place,
    did all the electrical. did electrical & pad for
    condensing unit. ran copper lines. ran wire for tstat
    and had tstat installed.
    condenser delivered.
    because I can buy from my local supply house, the first
    company I called to do the start up was realate to
    supply house manager.
    (and start up was ONLY to braise the copper lines & check
    refrig charge..sub cool & super heat)
    first cost quoted to me for this hour and a half job
    $1000. break down that cost for two guys.
    next price..$1050
    getting the picture yet?

    and keep in mind this was just for using torch,
    gauges & maybe a little 410.
    so I did it myself. took me an hour.
    in the rain. borrowed torches & tank of
    410, used my own gages. paid my friend a couple
    of hundred for use of torches & the lb of freon
    I didn't use.
    but..see..I know what I'm doing.
    you..you really don't have a clue.

    folks will always buy online, but if you
    check back with them..or read posts later from
    them...then you hear the issues.
    we hear them all the time.

    but..do what you will..its a free country.
    I'm not losing work on this...just giving
    you the benefit of my experience with this.

    best of luck

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