Post model number. My first thought is dealer is making money on the size upgrade. Homeowners would be surprised to learn that small increases or decreases in size in HVAC are relatively inconsequential to dealer cost.This of course varies from market to market and distributor as well. Any change to air handler size?

It is my understanding that the 289B and 286B are only available in full ton size, no 1/2 ton while the 285B is available in 1/2 ton increments. So
mdl number does count.

Post back.

IMO

I will get model #s from the guy. Thanks for the info.
I am assuming that the upcharge quote was for the same air handler as was the one he quoted me for the 3.0 ton. But that is another question I need to ask.

The model quoted is for a 289B with an air handler of 34000 BTUs. The 289B is a 19 SEER.
he is saying that it is a 3.5 ton. I will clarify today.
Does $650 still sound like a lot going from a 3 ton to a 3.5 ton?

realestate

If dealer is going up in size, then it will be a 3 ton going to a 4 ton. No such thing as a 3 1/2 ton model.

And if going to the 4 ton model, then the correct and best efficiency rated air handler would be FE4ANB005 minimum with best FE4ANB006. Of course you will require latest model Evolution controller. Any idea of heat
strip size to be provided? Should be 15 KW to temper air on defrost calls and the 15 KW should be staged in 5 KW increments.

$650 charge from 3 ton condenser to 4 ton is definitely not his cost difference but is typical and really not too bad of an increase.

IMO

NC - why are you needing 4 tons? Why are you paying for Seer 19?

Is this a heat pump? Is your ductwork able to handle 4 tons?

There are so many things to get wrong with these things, I just want to make sure that you have considered all variables. Sure the handler might be able to compensate for smaller ductwork but it isn't perfect. I have a fairly loud zone in a Carrier Infinity system and while it does ramp down the fan, it is still too loud (and I've dealt with it but you don't want to go down that path).

If the original 3 ton heat pump cooled the house adequately in the summer then why increase the size?

Previous poster makes a valid point if you are going up in size. Ductwork both supply and return should have a thorough evaluation as to size.

Existing HP system is a 3 ton? What size is your home? A load calc has been performed? What are issues with existing system? Tred carefully. Oversized is just as bad as being undersized.

IMO

My sq. ftg. for this unit is 2240. All load calcs are calling for 3.6 - 4.0. I currently have a 3.0 ton. it did heat and cool fine, but seemed to run all the time. My return ducts are 18 inches, which, I have been told, is ok for a 3,5 but I am not sure about a 4.0. He is quoting me a air handler with 34000 BTUs and 10KW strips.
David, why would I not want to spend the extra money on a 19 SEER, if I plan on being here for the next 10-12 years?
How does all this sound?

Also, what is the minimum size for the ductwork for a 4.0 ton system?

Just got an email from the HVAC installer... the model #s are as follows:
Heat Pump: 289BNA042000. He says this is a 3.5 ton.
Air Handler: FE4NF004T00 (10,KW, 34,000BTUs)
Thoughts?

There is no 289BNA042. The 289B comes in only full ton sizes (two stage system). So you'd either be getting the 036 or 048. Seems like there may be some miscommunication and you definitely want to clarify everything before signing a contract (as you are doing).

It is hard to comment on proper duct design over an internet forum as proper duct "size" depends on multiple factors. If your old 3 ton system kept you comfortable (albeit with longer cycles), I'm not sure I'd look toward upsizing. A new system with a variable speed air handler will only make things better. Oversizing is never good in terms of comfort or efficiency, 2 stage or not. It is not often that you find homes having ductwork capable of delivering the nominal airflow of the system it is attached to. The 4 ton Evolution will want to move roughly 1400 cfm on high stage assuming it is set up for 350 cfm/ton as most are (factory setting). The 18" flex may be enough if the run isn't too long and it is connected to a grill of adequate surface area. The Evolution controller will report static pressure which is helpful in determining the level of airflow restriction.

While it may seem logical to want to add a safety factor, if 3 tons is what the house needs (prior to any later home improvements you may make), 3 tons is what you should install. Since anything over a 3 ton would require a 4 ton system which is a big jump and will almost certainly require some sort of duct changes. These 2-stage units tend to run ~75% capacity on high stage, so with a 3 ton you'd be at just over 2 tons on low and with a 4 ton you'd be close to 3 tons on low. You want long cycles in low for better comfort and efficiency, and you may not find that with the 4 ton.

Good luck.

The maximum SEER rating for for the 289B heat pump is 19.0 in the 3 ton size and and 17.0 in the 4 ton size. So I don't understand how he comes up with a SEER rating of a model that doesn't exist.

I have no faith in an HVAC contractor who cannot quote you the correct model number. If he is a Bryant dealer he should have these memorized. I wonder which unit he would have installed if you signed off on his quote?

He says there was a miscommunication... the 289B only comes in whole sizes. He says I can still go this route (with the 4.0 ton) and have the techs regulate the heat pump and air handler down to a 3.5 ton capacity, and not redo my ducts. Is this possible?

Depends on current size of duct.Ductwork must be sized to move minimum 1600 CFM air both supply and return.

How many returns do you have?

What are you doing about filtering your return air?

What mdl thermostat/controller is quoted?

10 KW heat strip is not large enough. Should be 15 KW staged in 5 KW increments.

Not sure you really want this forum's help.

IMO

Depends on current size of duct.Ductwork must be sized to move minimum 1600 CFM air both supply and return.

How many returns do you have?

What are you doing about filtering your return air?

What mdl thermostat/controller is quoted?

10 KW heat strip is not large enough. Should be 15 KW staged in 5 KW increments.

Not sure you really want this forum's help.

IMO

Also post complete mdl number of air handler quoted...

IMO

11 vents and 3 returns... 18 inch duct work.

I have chosen to with the 19 SEER, 3.0 ton, 289BNA036000.
And match it with the FE4ANB005 air handler. I am waiting on a response as to how many BTUs and KW that this handler has. But I think this is where I am heading, everything installed for $8000.
This guy is saying that a residential house should not go beyond 12kw of strips, unless you want to rewire the existing panel. He says at 15000kWs, that would be the only appliance that would be able to be used.

I am not saying the three ton is the correct size.

The air handler sze has nothing to do with the KW heat strip size. The heat strip(s) is a separate piece of hardware installed in the air handler. Each KW yields about 3400 BTUs of heat by itself. Heat strips serve three separate functions. It tempers the AC air entering your home on defrost calls. It acts as auxiliary/ supplemental heat when your outside condenser can not keep up by itself. And finally it will give you emergency (expensive) heat if your outside condenser has a breakdown.

A 10 KW heat strip yields about 35 KBTUs. A 15 KW heat strip yield about 51 KBTUs. A 12 KW yields about 41 KBTUs. Heat strip should be staged.

You never did reply to my question about thermostat/controller to be installed. It should be the latest model Evolution controller.

I can look up the AHRI HP Directory performance/efficiency numbers on the three ton system if you like.

Pst back.

IMO

I think I might consider the sgl stage Evolution 285B in 3 1/2 ton size with same air handler, Evolution controller, and a staged 12 KW heat strip.

Just a thought.

IMO

I live in NC with Seer 16 and spend about $200 a year for a/c for 5000 sqft. So if the upgrade charge to seer 19 is $2000 and it saves you $30 a year then it really isn't worth it over the life of the unit. In general, in our climate, with our low electric rates, you will not pay back the premium for a Seer 19 unit even if you stay in the house for the life of the unit.

Now a heatpump without NG backup, it comes closer to being worth it. But is still generally isn't worth the upcharge. The Seer 19 units are a bit more complicated and you know what that means as far as repairs. Warranty's rarely cover all expenses.

What is your Seer 16 price? What do you expect to save per year over the 16 with a 19? I'd venture a $1.5k difference and a savings of less than $100 per year.

It does come with the Smart Evolution Controller Thermostat.
The AHU will be 12kw.
Tiger, the 285 is single stage... not a big deal, but I am going with the 289B and the 005 AHU with 12Kw strips.
David, I better get more than $30 in savings / month. My monthly bill is currently more than yours. Who knows how much is from heating/cooling as opposed to the rest of the loads. I have a large swimming pool that runs 24/7 too. It too has a variable speed motor, which is another reason I like this model.

It does come with the Smart Evolution Controller Thermostat.
The AHU will be 12kw.
Tiger, the 285 is single stage... not a big deal, but I am going with the 289B and the 005 AHU with 12Kw strips.
David, I better get more than $30 in savings / month. My monthly bill is currently more than yours. Who knows how much is from heating/cooling as opposed to the rest of the loads. I have a large swimming pool that runs 24/7 too. It too has a variable speed motor, which is another reason I like this model.

If your cooling load is more than 3 tons, you are going to be in trouble.

Sorry.

IMO

Oversized is tremendously worse than undersized. A person can add insulation and do some sealing and make a huge difference. Oversized is a whole different story.

undersized is just as bad in Southeast if truly in NC location. For cooling can be absolutely miserable.

IMO

I am now being told that my ductwork is fine for the 289B 4 ton. Supposedly the Carrier rep is saying that it matches up ok. I will be using the -005 air handler. I changed my mind, again, after rethinking the fact that all of the load tests showed about a 3.6 was needed. Supposed to install this week.

Get it in writing.

You will need a 15 KW staged heat strip for a 4 ton system.

12 KW is too small.

IMO

NC - that cooling bill was ENTIRE summer. The seer 16 has a variable speed air handler.

You may get $100 a month savings (doubtful but maybe) but the issue isn't the savings you get from what you have it is the difference between seer 16 and seer 19. And that $30 is probably the difference for the ENTIRE summer - ie $10 a month.

Sorry to use all caps but monthly and seasonal costs are obviously very different.

If you go to 4 ton seer 19 from a 3 ton seer 10 unit, you may not get much savings. By being oversized, you might pay a 15% penalty and you may be getting 30% better so your overall savings might be 15%

Cooling load is pretty easy to estimate. October is mostly a non a/c month. The difference between July and October is most likely all a/c. For me it was $150 and $70 - and July was by far the highest month. I was around $100 for Aug and Sept. All with Seer 16. The seer 19 kool aid makes no economic sense at $.10 a kwh in mild NC.

Above poster making WAG on savings that might or might not exist. How does one calculate when old system was running continuously in summertime cooling?

I still believe for the load calc that this homeowner has in hand, a 3 1/2 ton 285B Infinity sgl stage is a much better choice in size and potential savings than either the 3 ton or 4 ton two stage system. Homeowner should have been told that the low stage on the 289B is about 66-70% caacilty which would be around 34 KBTU. System should run in low stage most of the time with exception of any extreme heat cycles past the design temp.

As far as ductwork sizing, you will know right away if there is a problem with size when running in high stage.

IMO

Followup...
Everything is installed. The 4 ton 289B and the 005 air handler. The system does a pressure check and an air flow check and all tested good. Will get a $200 credit from the electric company and a $500 tax credit. Total bill came to $8000 installed.
Thanks for all the help here. It really helped.

What size heat strip? Was it staged?

IMO