You certainly don't want the Goodman,it's lower quility than others and far more expensive. Since duct is in crawl space,I would opt for Trane pak at prices listed. Only you can judge the side job guy's reputation but many people (not me,unless he;s competing with his employer ) view it as unetical for a tech to work on the side.

What is location?

What size home?

What size system quoted either package or split system?

I prefer split systems over package system.

I agree with above post. I would not have Goodman.

The XR13 HP condenser is a nice unit which packs a lot of good features including price. It has electronic demand defrost which is a great feature.

What size heat strip? Has anyone checked the electric service to see if it can handle strip heat without modification?

Post back.

IMO

Something is wacky about the prices. The Trane pack and split system should be more than the Goodman pack. Besides than the side jobber, could you go into more detail about the companies you got quotes from? How big is each company? Trying to figure out why one would be so much more.

>You certainly don't want the Goodman,it's lower quility than others and far more expensive. Since duct is in crawl space,I would opt for Trane pak at prices listed. Only you can judge the side job guy's reputation but many people (not me,unless he;s competing with his employer ) view it as unetical for a tech to work on the side.

Based on your experience in the field with recent Goodman package units, what don't you like about them?

Whether or not side jobs are ethical, I would not suggest hiring one for the simple reason that it's penny wise, pound foolish. He may give you a good price on putting in a system, but how good of a job will he do installing it? How much will he care? And then, after the fact, what if it breaks? Getting Mr. Side Job out for a warranty will be a bit more difficult than just calling the installing company.

This post was edited by hvtech42 on Sat, Nov 8, 14 at 6:10

I agree pricing seems skewed particularly Goodman and the ductwork.

Need more details.

The question about the side job presents some issues. You better tred carefully. There is risk here you should consider.

IMO

Thanks everyone for the reply. The Goodman quote comes from a large plumbing heating and air company in Richmond, Va. It is for a 3 ton unit and they will add 877 to the Goodman quote if I choose a Trane pacakage unit and add 2062 if I choose Carrier. Told me they cannot get a good price on Carrier unit when I questioned the much higher price. Did not quote split system because of too many modifications.All quotes are for 3 ton systems. Second quote comes from a small one man operation who is a bbb member on Angies list, licensed by the state of Va, I checked and comes highly recommended. He wants to put in Trane 13 Seer package for 5500 including ductwork but is that unit builders grade? He can also do Trane XR13 split for 6500 and yes he said he has to make modifications to ductwork and have electrician run additional wire but There is space in panel box for it.He is installer and repairman. The third guy is an installer for a company but does not repair. Told me if something go wrong to call him and he will get a repairman out. All quoted heater package 10kwh and honeywell non programmable stat. Second guy said he would put in programmable one if I wanted it. But did not think it was nec.Thanks Volvo

Yep, that explains it. Large company = large overhead. I wouldn't bother changing to a split system, not worth the additional cost. I like the sound of the second guy. I would stay away from the sidejobber.

If my decision and a split system is practical, this is the system I would recommend assuming you are being sized correctly.

6059918 Active Systems TRANE XR13 TRANE 4TWR3036C1 *AM7A0B30H21 1105 36000 12.00 14.50 35400 9.00 22800 1 HRCU-A-CB 308 772

Excellent numbers. Add a 10 KW heat strip and HW Mdl 8321 thermostat.

If split system not feasible, then get the model number Trane dealer proposes on HP package unit.

IMO

"Based on your experience in the field with recent Goodman package units, what don't you like about them?"
Several thousand things I don't like about the Goodman under discussion here. Tell me what you are attempting to get at and I will explain each. I thought it was obivous but here's a clue,each has the picture of a dead president on it.

I'm not attempting to "get at" anything. I'm legitimately curious what you don't like about Goodman package units. If it's a long list, no need to write up all of it, just give a few examples. It will be helpful to people doing research on this forum.

This post was edited by hvtech42 on Sat, Nov 8, 14 at 15:12

Thanks again everyone for the reply. I will get model number of trane package unit before making decision. Tiger does it make a difference when air handler has to be in crawl space instead of attic in terms of performance. Is the performance of split system better than package unit. Volvo

Thanks again everyone for the reply. I will get model number of trane package unit before making decision. Tiger does it make a difference when air handler has to be in crawl space instead of attic in terms of performance. Is the performance of split system better than package unit. Volvo

Hello volvo,I'm certain tiger will reply soon with additional info about split vs pak. I think your question might also raise energy-raters antenna. Meanwhile I offer a few things for your consideration? Both offer advantages over the other IN VARIOUS ENVIROMENTS AND CERCUMSTANCES. The mechanical elements of paks are 100% assembled and balanced on factory assembly line by several people,each an expert on his part. Contrast that to splits that must be partly field assembled. Without intent of degrading field techs,but few if any pocess near the collective skill offered on assembly line. Techs must wear too many hats. Ducts in an attic waste energy because of tempature differential inside duct and attic space. Duts in crawl space are generally not exposed to as high differential. Split air handelers are often installed where access for repair and maintainance is limited. Paks usually are easily accessible from all sides making service much easier. Why should it matter to the customer if a tech must hang upside down in oven like tempature breating and eating insulation and dust? All i have met work cheaper sitting on a bucket outdoors,esp if it happens to be shaded. Split handler in crawl space is about mid ways. As you witnessed,critters(don't overlook kitty and fido) are more pron to destroy things in crawl space than attic. Many times the attic or crawl space was built around the equipment requiring demolition to remove/replace. It isn't unheared of for a scuttle hole being too small to alow parts (blower assembly,evap coil and chubby techs) through. The comparison could go on and on but I hope you see the point,all depends on several conditions when choosing. If conditions are perfect,split usually gets the nod.

Back to Volvo...

You usually get better efficiency and performance numbers with a split system over a similar configured package unit.

I prefer crawlspace for both ductwork and air handler/furnace over an attic install. But some might say it does not matter a great deal.. Of course for a two story home with a separate upstairs system, you will see an attic install most of the time.

Interesting points raised by previous poster. Usually though package units are installed due to a particular limiting application not necessarily cost of install.

IMO

Thanks Tiger and Klem for the useful info. Am waiting for Model numbers. Volvo

Hi everyone, am just getting back to the forum with additional info. As stated previously the proposal was for trane package, goodman package and trane XR13 split.Trane package 5500 including all new ductwork, trane split xR13 6500 including all new ductwork and new wiring, a Goodman package 6390 plus 4068 for ductwork and trane XR13 split system including ductwork for 5000.I have decided to eliminate the person who was going to do the job on the side and the large company and go with the small company that is highly recommended with excellent credentials however I am having a difficult time with decision on which unit. I was almost ready to go with XR13 split but another family member informed me that he was told that 13 seer units would no longer be made after Jan 1, 2015 due to gov. regulations and due to the fact that this is the home of elderly relative that at some point will be sold I should take that into consideration when making the decision.He stated that spending thousands of dollars on system that would no longer meet gov minimum seer standards would not be a good decision. Called HVAC installer and asked for a quote on a 14 seer trane and was told that 14 seer package unit from trane was not available but a 15 seer package from goodman was available for 7000. I regected the goodman 15 seer outright. He then told me that he did not think the trane 14 seer air handler would fit crawlspace but he was going to remeasure and called to say it would fit. Here is proposal Trane 14 seer split system 4TWB4036G100 air handler TAM4A0A36S31, honeywell 5000stat with new low voltage wiring, new 60 amp elec circuit , new copper ref lines all new ductwork including changes to accomodate split from package, reinsulate any metal ducts that need it, new concrete pad , feet on unit to protect from snow. 10kw heat strip 10 yr parts, 5 yr labor 7000. The split XR 13 4TWR3036C1000A and atr handler TEM3A0B36S31SA same install and stat 10kw strip 10 yr parts and 5yr labor 6500. Trane package 13 seer 5500, 10 parts 5 labor. Please give your input. Volvo

>I was almost ready to go with XR13 split but another family member informed me that he was told that 13 seer units would no longer be made after Jan 1, 2015 due to gov. regulations and due to the fact that this is the home of elderly relative that at some point will be sold I should take that into consideration when making the decision

Not true. 13 SEER systems will still be made, they will just be no longer allowed to be sold in some climates. Really, the difference between in efficiency is not that amazing, and there is no reason to not get a 13 SEER just because of the upcoming regulations.

I agree with klem1 about spit vs packaged units, and I still don't see the point in converting in your case. Yes, higher efficiency numbers are possible with splits, but since you'd be going with 13 or 14 SEER either way you really wouldn't be taking advantage of that.

If going with the XR13 Trane split system, this is the AHRI configuration you want. TAM7A0B30 var speed air handler. If you read the performance/eff numbers, you will see you get a 14.5 SEER rating on cooling and 9 HSPF heating efficiency. Not bad. BTU performance numbers are excellent. Add a HW MdL 8321 thermostat with a 10 KW heat strip.

6059918 Active Systems TRANE XR13 TRANE 4TWR3036C1 *AM7A0B30H21 1105 36000 12.00 14.50 35400 9.00 22800 1 HRCU-A-CB 308 772

You are being misinformed from your family member.

As far as ductwork system, you want flex for the runs only, galv for supply and return trunk lines. R8 insulation minimum. Crawlspace preferred. I would want 2-3 returns strategically located and correctly sized.

I do not like the XB14 Trane system you were quoted. The XR system I listed above is superior to the XB system.

I am done here.

IMO

This post was edited by tigerdunes on Mon, Nov 17, 14 at 13:51