Im buying a goodman 3 ton condenser,69000btu 95.5% efficency, 2-stage burner, variable speed blower,4ton evaporator coil. im having 2 frinds install it for me ones a journetmen sheetmetal worker the other is a journeymen hvac tech. then its going to becheck and started by my girlfriends siters boyfriend whos a contactor. I would never attempt this with out the help of some pros. Im buying my stuff at alpine gl.

I'm currently installing a two stage, 93% efficient Goodman 60K/90K propane furnace topped by a new 14 SEER 3.5 ton A/C system myself - This is my third DIY install and all have included the electrical and the plumbing, though I do have a pro do the brazing and charge the systems

I bought the Goodman furnace, the cased coil, the condensing unit and lineset, a $200 computerized thermostat, a media air cleaner and several other accessories delivered to my door for $3200 - I'll have about $4500 in this install when I'm done and that's way less than 1/2 of the lowest quote I got

It's not rocket science . . . . though sometimes they try to charge you like it was ;-)

Don

Thanks for the meaningful discussion. You simply mention DIY in other HVAC forums and all h*ll breaks loose. It's as though they feel homeowners can't even change furnace filters themselves.

Once again my plan is to simply replace HP, A-coil and lineset and have a local tech do final charging and checkout.

No control system changes, no ducting changes, no electrical supply changes, no air handler changes other then to change A coil, and no consensate routing changes.

The 3 components will cost me approx. $2500 and I will budget $500 for the final charging. (even though they estimate $100-300).

Carrier quoted me between $9500 and $11000 for the same job but they included an whole new air handler. (they won't even replace my existing linset in thier quote).

$7500+ savings is not to be ignored IMHO.

Hello,
Carrier for $10k, I would get more bids. This equipment is on the high end of my estimates, but not that high. $3500-5000 for ANY brand 3-ton 13 SEER system. The 95% furnace may be more expensive,($1k higher) but not that much.

I had 3 bids on Carrier systems, all the same - 3 ton heat pump, matching air handler, whole house filter, new thermostat, new frig lines. The bid ranged from $9100 to $9600. DIY is really the way to go.

I've done two DIY HVAC jobs on my house over the years, all with Goodman equipment.

First job was to add on AC to a FHA system in my attic. Did that for well under a grand. About 1/4th the cost of quotes I received.

A couple years ago, I replaced my downstairs furnace with a new high efficiency Goodman furnace. Used a cased coil and 2.5 ton compressor. Again, did the job for less than a quarter of what the pros charge.

I hired a HVAC guy to braze the refrigerant lines, evacuate and charge the system. I did everything else.

I'd recommend looking on ebay for your equipment. I found sellers there to be much cheaper than Alpine.

be sure to match the electrical demands to the new high E unit. your 25 Year old heat pump will have a MUCH larger breaker than is allowed by the new system.
I have no problems with DIY, as long as they only go by the book on installs. your system sounds like a perfect diy changeout. the new High E systems need matched coils and rated airflow.
ask us the questions, and we will try to help.
John

Be careful when your order comes, inspect it completely. I had a complete system come damaged, It looked fine, but when I unwrapped it, it was completely damaged, and would cost more to repair than to just replace. Freight company refused to pay anymore than 300$ and so now I'm $600 in the hole. Just my 2 cents.

These are obviously some of the success stories however there are probably many many horror stories with do it yourself installs. Just because you did does not mean everyone can and by putting this info online you may be putting folks in harms way. It's obvious you all are very proud of yourselves but who rally cares?

I am a DIY'er and shade tree mechanic , from way back . I installed my present HVAC system and hired a tech to solder it up and vac it down / start it up .

Presently thinking about experimenting with a high SEER mini-split .

God bless
Wyr

It is possible the electrical may be over sized , if you install more efficient out door unit . Just replace either the circuit breaker feeding it with a new one , sized to the max on the condenser label .

Or install a fused disconnect on the outside , fused according to the condenser max .

The wire being over sized , hurts nothing , as long as the lugs on the effected devices are large enough to accommodate the existing wire size .

God bless
Wyr

PS Some brands of circuit breakers are pretty expensive . In that case the fused disconnect & fuses may the the more economical rout .

This post was edited by WyrTwister on Mon, Jun 24, 13 at 8:48

Greetings,

I'm new here and this looks like a place where a NON PROFESSIONAL can safely ask for advice and share anecdotal experiences.

I had joined HVAC Talk http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/forumdisplay.php?1-AOP-Residential-HVAC. These are so called professionals that act like an old boys club when confronted with a DIYer like myself who has taken the time to research the topic and has even installed a unit of my own. Don't even think of discussing r22a which anyone can buy and install.

The real issue is the threat to their earning power and ability to keep anyone needing/wanting HVAC at their behest.

I shared an experience yesterday there, which I'll duplicate here in a moment here and you can look at the replies. There is only one which is barely non-condescending.

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Today, 02:08 AM #1
telson
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New DIY Install Not Working

I have just completed a new 2 1/2 ton Goodman condenser and 3 ton evaporator install, and try as I might, I cannot get the unit to cool.

I am using RedTek r22a for refrigerant. The nominal initial charge of r22 would be 66 oz. as per the spec sheet on the condenser. For R22a, this would be reduced 1 lb 10 oz, or 34 oz.

The unit is at present overcharged by RedTek's specs by a considerable amount, nearly double in fact. I did this in an attempt to see if lack of refrigerant was starving the evaporator, because my gauges were not showing an increase on the high side when I added refrigerant. Until I purposely overcharged the unit, I never saw anything on the high side that was any different than the low side, which suggested to me that the evaporator was not getting enough refrigerant.

This is still the case, since I now have 115 psi on the suction side and 145 psi on the high side. The high side should be much higher than that, if the evaporator was working.

I am suspecting the metering device in the evaporator.

Any thoughts?.

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Today, 06:33 AM #2
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sorry, not a diy site. Try answers.com

If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

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Today, 07:02 AM #3
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.

..

Do not attempt vast projects with
half vast experience and ideas.
...

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Today, 07:19 AM #4
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lol, you put r22a into that?

"Better tell the sandman to stay away, because we're gonna be workin on this one all night."

"Dude, you need more than 2 wires to a condenser to run a 2 stage heatpump."

"Just get it done son."

Dad adjusted

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Today, 07:32 AM #5
telson
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Really really sorry to have disrupted an exclusives only club here. Didn't realize this was for PROFESSIONALS only.

As a former paper engineer, I can tell you, the only thing that separates your types from me is an agreement among yourselves to never help a DIYer in the view of locking in profits for yourselves.

Don't bother replying to this, since it is my last post here.

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Today, 07:36 AM #6
vstech
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Can you contact the support from the ac equipment source? How about tech support from the "refrigerant" source? I'm sure something was overlooked on installation, if the above companies cannot help, you will need to get a technician out to service it.

The TRUE highest cost system is the system not installed properly...
The three big summer hearththrobs...
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Dwane Johnson
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Today, 07:42 AM #7
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You, sir, are playing with FIRE! People HAVE been killed!

I can only pray to GOD that you have no children living in the structure in which you have installed this bomb!

R-22A is fuel grade liquid propane.

It is TOTALLY ILLEGAL for use as a refrigerant. There have been enough deaths from the illegal use of propane as a refrigerant that the FBI is currently investigating criminal charges against companies that sell propane as a refrigerant.

Search for posts on 'R22A'

Read these: http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress...257B9B0065AEC0
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/r22a.html

We have nothing against giving professional opinions to assist homeowners ; that's why the AOP section.

But , we cannot open ourselves up to liability if you do something wrong while acting on our advice.

JUST A LITTLE CLOSER AND THE LITTER BOX IS ALL MINE!

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Today, 09:00 AM #8
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Angry

Quote Originally Posted by telson View Post
Really really sorry to have disrupted an exclusives only club here. Didn't realize this was for PROFESSIONALS only.

As a former paper engineer, I can tell you, the only thing that separates your types from me is an agreement among yourselves to never help a DIYer in the view of locking in profits for yourselves.

Don't bother replying to this, since it is my last post here.
Evidently your Reading Comprehension is Lacking Mr. Engineer or you'd already read this is not a DIY help site. If all that separates "US" from You is an agreement, why did you come here Asking For Help? Most here do not have Calendering, Slitting, Sheeter or Web handling experience but some do. Come on back and take another poke at us.

To Offer Help.

At this point, you have a Serious Problem... Several. You are going to have to Suck it up and Call someone to repair your problem(s). What we do is not easy. I hope you can find a Tech that will correct the (dangerous, expensive) mess you made and not rob you. There's not one of us that likes to go in behind a Hack and try to make a system operate as designed. Call A Professional.

Yes, I know I Shouldn't But I Just Can't Help Myself...

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Today, 10:12 AM #9
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Quote Originally Posted by telson View Post
Really really sorry to have disrupted an exclusives only club here. Didn't realize this was for PROFESSIONALS only.

As a former paper engineer, I can tell you, the only thing that separates your types from me is an agreement among yourselves to never help a DIYer in the view of locking in profits for yourselves.

Don't bother replying to this, since it is my last post here.
I really hate that you had to leave before you could answer a good question from me. Why didn't you just install a new 410A coil and condenser, it would have been easier and refrigerant is a lot cheaper and will be available for many moons to come. 410A systems perform "when installed correctly" just as well as the old R-22 systems.

__________________________________________________ _______________________
“Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

"Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

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Today, 04:29 PM #10
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This guy isn't serious right? This has to be a troll. No one could be that obviously stupid.

Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun.

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Today, 04:58 PM #11
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Another reason why Goodman gets a bad rap ....DIYers installing and start ups themselves .

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Today, 05:58 PM #12
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The OP is curious...

The guy knows too many terms and phrases we use in the industry... yet is bragging about being a DIY.
This almost sounds like a troll playing games with us.

Now if it really IS a hack... thinking he is gonna beat the system... I kinda hope it does explode (not hurt anyone)... and he gets in serious trouble with the law.
Then I hope he sees the light and posts all over the DIY forums what happened and to NOT try this yourself, and to NOT use any refrigerant that ends in 22A...

One can only hope...

GA-HVAC-Tech

Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

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Today, 06:55 PM #13
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Quote Originally Posted by telson View Post
As a former paper engineer, I can tell you, the only thing that separates your types from me is an agreement among yourselves to never help a DIYer
And knowing hoe to diagnose a system issue.
And knowing not to use r22a.
And knowing how to correctly install equipment.
And knowing that 410a would have been cheaper.

Other than those things....yeah, sure.

WTF is a paper engineer? You engineer paper? Seriously? That can't be a real job.

Or is all your work just design? If so, then it explains alot.

"Better tell the sandman to stay away, because we're gonna be workin on this one all night."

"Dude, you need more than 2 wires to a condenser to run a 2 stage heatpump."

"Just get it done son."

Dad adjusted

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As you can see, I didn't reply to any of these rude replies. Does anyone here have any ideas what could be causing this trouble?.

Thanks.

Hi,

I'm a newbie here, but I like what I see thus far. I have just acquired and installed a new Goodman 2 1/2 ton condenser and a 3 ton evaporator coil. The coil wasn't exactly matched due to availability issues.

I put a new line set on the new rig and tested for leaks, vacuumed the system and figured it would be good to go. So I purchased 6 8oz. cans of RedTek r22a from Canadian Tire up here in Canada. I used the stuff in my former unit and I found it an excellent product. You actually use less and achieve about a 20% efficiency improvement.

The problem I'm having is this. I cannot get the thing to cool properly. I tried the superheat method of charging the unit twice with a no-go each time. Using RedTeks guidelines of filling by weight, I deliberately overcharged the unit to see if there would be any improvement. There hasn't been.

RedTek includes a gauge with their product, so you can see what the suction side pressure is while filling. I have an old manifold set that I hooked up to both high and low sides to monitor them simultaneously. Maximum operating pressure on the low side should not exceed 80 psi. While this is easily achievable, I expected the high side pressure to exceed that by at least two times if not more. At a suction pressure of 80 psi, the liquid side was pretty much even with suction.

This is telling me that either the new compressor isn't working or something is preventing the evaporator from loading up properly.

The condenser is a Goodman 2.5 ton with a scroll compressor. It runs on 220V single phase, so running backward shouldn't be an issue. There is a .071 orifice at the inlet of the evaporator. Could this be too large and if so would it effect the system as described here?.

Thanks..
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For telson

You have hijacked an 8 yr old thread. This is considered bad forum protocol.

Go to bottom of home page and start your own thread from above C&P.

You will have better results.

TD