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Which is Best: Lockinvar of Energy kinetics 2000?

Posted by chipster_2007 (My Page) on
Sat, Nov 7, 09 at 9:38

I would like to replace my 40 yr old oil FHW boiler with a more efficient one.My house has cast iron radiators. I have looked at many posts here and elsewhere and still remained confused.I am still up in the air about converting at this time to natural gas. I have looked at Energy Kinetics 2000, that can accomodate cast iron radiators (hopefully well) and can simply be converted to an oil or gas boiler by simply changing the burner in it (does not include piping gas to furnace and chimney expenses. I recently received a quote for a Lockinvar * Knight gas boiler system which cannot be converted. This system is eligible for the Federal Tax Credit whereas the Energy System 200 is not. The Energy Kinetics system looks like a less complicated system therefore less likely to have problems with it. Which is better and why. Thanks


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Which is Best: Lockinvar of Energy kinetics 2000?

Difficult to compare
The 2000 would be a good choice if sticking with oil, but not so good if going to gas compared to the Knight.


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RE: Which is Best: Lockinvar of Energy kinetics 2000?

If you plan on staying with oil heat, I apologize for not being able to offer any opinion in that context. I am not an expert, but I recently converted my house from oil boiler to gas boiler. Besides saving loads of space in our basement, the high efficiency gas boiler burns cleaner and I think saves money long term.

Our 85 year old house has 11 large cast iron radiators. I got 10 quotes from various contractors and cherry picked discussions on this site for help. We narrowed our choice down to two contractors--one suggested a Knight Lochinvar and the other suggested a Triangle Tube Prestige. We went with the Triangle Tube because I trusted the contractor more than the other one. Both quotes were pretty close. When we were making the final decision, my research suggested that the Knight and TT Prestige were both highly recommended with little or no major issues. My 2 cents would be convert to natural gas and go with the Knight.

FYI - TT Prestige as been great so far so I would highly recommend it if you have a contractor who can install it at a fair price. By the way, what state are you in? There are several additional stimulus plans that provide grants and incentives for high efficiency boilers.


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RE: Which is Best: Lockinvar of Energy kinetics 2000?

Hi Schroads, I live in MA. The cost of the Knight Lochinvar was 10,500. That included venting the furnace out through the wall, ? 3 ft off the ground vs up the chimney where I would like it to go due to large snow falls/drifts and a fairly recent death on the Cape due to such issues. I know there are safeguards but there is no sure thing. The Energy 2000 would be 6,700 with oil as heat. The rebates and tax incentives are helpful but still don't get it down to the price of oil. BTW, what is the difference between the two boilers since they could/do burn gas? I would really like to know.


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RE: Which is Best: Lockinvar of Energy kinetics 2000?

Chipster:

I'm in New Jersey and there is a great program through home performance with energy star. I have a link at the bottom. I believe MA is involved, but not sure about the specifics of the program.

The quote for the Lochivar was $8250. The quote for the TT Prestige was $7700. By the way, I had quotes ranging from $7500 upto $18000 for various boilers (weil-mclain, buderas, knight and TT). All quotes included new piping, gas line piping, direct venting through the wall, thermostat, circulator, and removal of old boiler and oil tank.

As an aside, if you convert to gas and vent through your chimney, you may need a new liner because the exhaust from the gas boiler is different than the oil boiler. I did not research it too much, but you may need to add the cost of a new liner if you go to gas and vent up the chimney. I would check with a professional.

Here is a link that might be useful: Homer Performance with Energy Star


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RE: Which is Best: Lockinvar of Energy kinetics 2000?

chipster
I think the sytem 2000 is by far your best bet, oil or gas you will reduce your fuel costs, the knight is a condensing boiler which gets most of its efficiency if it actually condenses but with cast iron radiators you wont have a condensing boiler at all so your savings are greatly reduced, how much fuel does the knight claim it will save you?


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RE: Which is Best: Lockinvar of Energy kinetics 2000?

Hi jimcolonial, The contractor said the Knight Lochivar would save me 25% in heating costs. I am a novice in this and I want to make the best decision. So you think the System 2000 is the way to go?


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RE: Which is Best: Lockinvar of Energy kinetics 2000?

Quote from jimcolonial - "I think the sytem 2000 is by far your best bet, oil or gas you will reduce your fuel costs, the knight is a condensing boiler which gets most of its efficiency if it actually condenses but with cast iron radiators you wont have a condensing boiler at all so your savings are greatly reduced, how much fuel does the knight claim it will save you?"

This is quite wrong. Most houses with cast iron radiators were sized with much higher heat loads in mind than are currently experienced. Various weather sealing upgrades - new windows, additional insulation, sealing other sources of infiltration - have reduced the heat required. This means that high water temperatures are rarely required. And even if the house does require a high water temperature at design conditions, this is only a very short period of time of the heating season. The vast majority of winter the system will run at much lower water temperatures.

For example, my house has baseboard heating - a system that some people will say won't operate at anything short of 180 degrees. However, at 0 degrees outside, my water temperature is barely pushing 150. On a typical 30 degree day, it's running around 115.

There is a study that Brookhaven National Laboratory did about this topic (can't find a link to it right now) but they found that there is considerable "shoulder season" time that will allow condensing so you will definitely save money with a condensing boiler.

Michael


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RE: Which is Best: Lockinvar of Energy kinetics 2000?

aemeeich,
baseboard output is based on 180 water temp, that doesnt mean it wont heat with anything less, the lower the water temp in the baseboard the less btu output of the baseboard so the heat cycle will be much longer to satisfy the tstat, anyway chipster yes the system 2000 is in my opinion the best, i have one in my house and save 42% on oil useage hands down the way to go


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RE: Which is Best: Lockinvar of Energy kinetics 2000?

jimcolonial,
That's exactly my point. Cast iron radiators can operate perfectly fine at less than 180 degrees. And as I pointed out, very few houses need 180 degree water (and even if they do, it is for a very short period of time). Thus the system will run the majority of the time at condensing temperatures.

The System 2000 is a good boiler for oil, but for gas a mod con would be a better choice.

Michael


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RE: Which is Best: Lockinvar of Energy kinetics 2000?

Michael, what would you recommend for a gas mod con boiler? I was maybe hoping to get the system 2000 set up for oil now and then convert to gas if the price of oil becomes obscene in the future. A stainless steel chimney liner is around $1,800. Would the System 2000 for gas be less efficient? What are the other drawbacks to doing this? I thought just switching the burner and lining the chimney wouldn't be too bad if I decided to go with gas .What are the pro/con of Energy 2000 vs another efficient boiler specifically designed to burn gas?


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RE: Which is Best: Lockinvar of Energy kinetics 2000?

The system 2000 is designed to burn gas and just as efficient, if it`s oil, nat,or propane


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Energy kinetics 2000?

can anyone out there tell me anything about the ENergy Kinetics 2000. If theyve ever had to replace the computerized board that is installed with it, etc. thank you


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RE: Which is Best: Lockinvar of Energy kinetics 2000?

Energy Kinetics has what's called a manufacturer sponsored rebuild program for the system manager. The original warranty is for 5 years, then after that, if the manager fails, there's a minimal charge to replace it with a remanned manager. Cost is comparable with a zone valve or primary control so no biggy.


 
 

 

 


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