Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
jjmizzy

Insulation/sealing, NJ Clean Energy program

JJMizzy
10 years ago

I can get high efficiency AC/furnace installed in my home for $7,000. I have another offer using the NJ Clean Energy program which includes, High efficiency AC/Furnace, Water Heater (which I do not need as I replaced mine last month) home energy audit which will include up to 15 inches insulation in attic and seal all openings in the home. The company charges $15,000. I will get $5,000 rebate which will go to company and then a $10,000 loan for 10 years at 0%. So my question is, is the insulation and sealing worth $3,000. I was told with the added insualtion and sealing my 2nd floor will be much closer in temp to the first floor than it is now. Does anyone have any experience with the insulation and house sealing? Will it really help cut down the temperature difference between my 1st and 2nd floor. Is it worth the extra $3000 or should I just go with heater and AC for $7,000?

Comments (9)

  • mike_home
    10 years ago

    I live in NJ and I had a company come to my house to pitch the NJ Clean Energy program. I am familiar how the program works.

    If you currently have R30 insulation or better in your attic then in my opinion it will take many years for you to recover your $3000 investment. If you saved $150 a year it would take over 20 years to break even.

    You are better off hiring your own reputable HVAC company to do the installation.

  • energy_rater_la
    10 years ago

    air sealing should always be done before insulation.
    insulation slows air movement, it doesn't stop it.
    as air moves through insulation, it reduces the
    performance of the insulation & brings insulation
    particles into the house.

    air leakage costs you more to heat & cool and
    contributes to poor indoor air quality, uneven
    temps in the house & oversized equipment to
    overcome temp gains.

    it is easier to condition a tight house than it
    is to condition one with lots of air leakage.

    don't know about this NJ Clean Energy program.

    but I do a LOT of air/duct sealing in homes...
    once hvac system & ducts are installed and before any insulation is added to the floor of the attic.

    when done properly..air sealing is the number one best
    way to reduce utility costs & improve comfort.
    this one measure has a fast payback.

    people often opt to foam insulate the roofline rather
    than to seal individual leaks.
    expensive cost, fast applicaton vs
    low material cost & high labor costs.
    we use foam a lot here in my hot/humid
    climate where ducts are in attic space.
    there are usually several way to achieve the solution.

    a blower door test will identify air leakage sites & measure
    total leakage, duct testing will do the same with ducts & returns.
    this can be hired from other companies than the njce.

    you have choices, add more hvac. more equipment costs,
    more to operate & maintain.
    or fix the house & size hvac system correctly. enoy comfort
    and energy savings.

    btw...all ductwork, supply boxes, plenum connections
    must be mastic sealed. not duct tape, not foil tape.
    paint on mastic..applied nickel thick, or mastic tapes
    like hardcast brand #1402 mastic tape.

    call an energy rater in your area.
    they can do the testing & release all the info
    to you for you to shop the job.
    that way you
    can compare what they offer to the njce program

    www.resnet.us

    best of luck.

  • schroads
    10 years ago

    I am familiar with the NJ Clean Energy (CE) Program and I had it done during its first year (2009). The new program is no where near as advantageous as it was in 2009. Moreover, from my experience, many contractors in the CE Program inflated prices because of rebates and loans. I would defer to the other commentator regarding ROI for $3,000 in insulation and air sealing.

    In my case, our house was 90 years old and had no insulation or air sealing, so it was definitely worth it. In fact, we found a reputable HVAC company to convert us from an oil to gas boiler initially. Then, I discovered they were a subcontractor for a CE Audit Company, so we entered the program. My advice is find a reputable HVAC company for your installation and ask them if they subcontract with any company's certified in the CE Program. It worked for me.

  • JJMizzy
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thanks everyone for the responses. For energy_rater_la. Thanks for all your detail. I now have a better understanding of what i might be paying for. Can you add information on "Blower door test". What exactly is that. Not that it matters but my unit is located in the basement. What exactly should be sealed in the attic, basement and the rest of the home?
    As far as the duct testing: This would test all the supply and returns accesable in the basement and seal up any leaks?
    I live in NJ and the biggest problem we have with the current system is the temperature difference between the 1st and seconf floor. If I could start over I would have insisted 2 zone but it was not an option. The cost to add it now is to high. Can all of this sealing really improve the comfort on the 2nd floor?
    Thanks

  • energy_rater_la
    10 years ago

    you can learn a lot by simply googling blower door test.
    in a nutshell blower door testing is a testing method that puts the house into a negative pressure.
    while depressurized the leaks in the house suck in air.
    gages measure amount of leakage at a set pressure.

    duct testing is done by sealing off supply registers &
    depressurizing duct system through the return. leaks
    suck air in, gages measure leakage amount.
    pressure pans are also used to test duct leakage, I perfer
    a flow hood...but it isn't an approved method.

    testing ducts these ways tests ALL duct no matter where they are located. with two systems, two tests are conducted
    one per system.

    we test, you seal. hire someone to seal or perhaps the
    rater you have test has recommendations or can do the
    work themselves.

    testing is done at 50 pascals (unit of measure) & leakage is measured in cfm (cubic feet per minute). I think in other states they test ducts @ 25 pa..but we use 50 pa.

    here in my part of the country we put equipment & ducts into attics, no basements. so our duct loss is a huge issue.
    duct leakage in basements...from what I read not all ducts in basements are sealed or insulated...which just seems crazy to me...knowing how much hard pipe ducting leaks!

    with duct losses minimized there is more pressure to push
    the air to other areas. so if the duct loss is 25% or higher,
    sealing ducts may put more air to second floor.

    attics are the greatest heat loss. so sealing at the ceiling plane to create an air barrier between living & attic is a
    good investment. we cut holes for recessed lights & put in
    unsealed IC rated cans rather than ICAT, oversize cuts in
    ceilings for bath fans, stove vents etc.
    sealing the openings, then insulating is key.
    adding insulation over an opening into the conditoned space de-rates performance of insulation & allows
    entry of insulation into living space.

    as for air sealing in basements..you'd have to get info
    from someone who works in areas with basements.

    you never know all the leakage areas until you test,
    as each house is different.

    about second floors...do any of the second floor walls
    share walls with attic space? it is often the heat/cold
    gain from attics into these rooms that make them so
    difficult to condition. if this is the case...are these
    walls insulated on the attic side?
    we often insulate these walls & use foam/foil sheathing
    to air seal them. a diy project for sure.
    a more expensive, but much faster & less labor intensive
    is to foam seal either the roofline, or at minimum the
    walls of these upstairs rooms. like with the sheathing, the
    foam has to cover walls from top plate to bottom plate,
    and between floors.

    best of luck.

  • mike_home
    10 years ago

    How much insulation do you have currently have in the attic?

    When is the temperature difference the greatest, summer or winter and by how much?


    In my opinion sealing the gaps around the ceiling light fixtures on the second floor and the top plate of second floor walls does not do much in helping the temperature differential between floors. I know Energy Rater will disagree with me, but I would love to see a study of before and after sealing and be proven wrong. If you have a pull down attic stair then you should get an attic cover. You can make one yourself or buy one ready made. That is the extent of my attic sealing.

    There is value in adding more insulation. I have R30 in my attic and my annual heating and cooling bills are about $1000 for a 3200 sq. foot house. You want at least an R30 rating. My preference is fiberglass batts as opposed to the blown in type. Paying for above R40 has little pay back. It goes by the law of diminishing returns.

  • TDL_JC
    8 years ago

    I live in central jersey and was getting quotes to install new A/C and also replace 11 years old furnace and found out this program. My water heater is also about ~12 years old. I know my attic does not have proper insulation and basement is currently unfinished and not insulated. My current electric+gas bill in winter is around $180. Do you think I will be benefitted from this program? I do plan to finish my basement before the summer and if I could get basement insulation done with this program then I am hoping to save some money when I finish the basement. My attic is very small and has an opening through a small closet. I'm afraid that auditor will not do a good job of checking it out as it is hard to get up there.

  • mike_home
    8 years ago

    I am also in central NJ and familiar with this program. What typically happens is you are quoted inflated prices and forced to buy insulation and a new hot water heater in order to qualify for large state rebates and 10 year interest free financing. The result is you are likely to overpay and replace equipment that does not need replacing.

    If you need additional insulation in the attic then your are better off hiring an insulation company. Your hot water heater has another 5-8 years of life, and the furnace should be good for another 8-10 years.

    Get some quotes outside the program. If you are in or near Mercer county I can send you the contact information on the Carrier dealer I have used.

    You want to discuss this further please start a new thread.

  • TDL_JC
    8 years ago

    Mike, I am in Middlesex county and I created a new thread with the quotes I have received so far. Please provide your advice. Thanks.