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krycek1984

Stupid Redo

krycek1984
13 years ago

So, the PO's did some stupid stuff with the new HVAC system they put in. The house was built in 1910 and everything else was done very well except this. I want to see if what they did is as stupid as it seems - I have to call HVAC people in anyway so I'm not expecting details but I'm curious.

They put a brand new furnace in but I don't know what they were thinking with HVAC. The first floor is OK. But for the second floor...

They ran the ductwork up through the old central chimney, ALL the way up to the PEAK of the house, and then ran each line for each room down from there. So the heat for each room upstairs goes all the way to the peak of the house and then down to each room. Needless to say, air doesn't exactly gush out of those vents. And when it does, it doesn't keep the rooms warm enough. Not to mention, they draped the ductwork (it's the flexible insulated kind) over raftered creating kinks.

Were they as stupid as I think they were regarding HVAC? I can't believe they would make all the wamr air rise up to the peak and then fall back down.

I don't know what we'll have to do - we may have to get a secondary fan up there, or redo all the ductwork for the second floor, or *something*.

So, what say you all? Is this a common practice? One of their HVAC guys came in and said it could have been better but was up to code and legal?

Comments (6)

  • juliekcmo
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Given the size of the house, aside form the not so great ducting plan, did the person who came in feel that the system that was installed was sized correctly for the space and ducting in place?

    What is the supply/return air system in each upstairs room and to the central return?

    It may be that you can tweak the setup in place be doing some more minor things like:

    If there is only 1 duct per room, then the pressure to each room can be enhanced a couple of ways. Like cutting down the bottoms of the bedroom doors by 1/4 inch or so. But that depends on where the central return is, so don't go chopping up your house.

    Reducting with a larger duct size ( only if the overall system can handle this.)

    Zone ducting fans and dampers may be an option, with the same ductwork, or if you change out the ductwork. This may be the most cost-effective short term fix to make what you have work better.

    Do you really need 1 or 2 systems is the first question. If a secondary system can be added to the attic that may be the best long term solution.

    I suggest getting a dealer that has experience with older homes and ducting and getting them to tell you what they would do if this was their house.

    You want to find someone who will sell and install a duct solution if that is the correct fix. This is a situation where I would pick the most experienced, smartest, and creative person that can think about your situation.

  • tigerdunes
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    krycek

    here is my reply. you may not like it.

    first, these old homes can present special challenges for HVAC retrofit/renovations. I think it would be unfair to your dealer to make any specific comment good or bad without seeing the install in person.

    beyond that, how involved were you in discussing options/alternatives to the 2nd floor? or did you just turn it over to the dealer and give them pretty much "carte blanche" to just get the job done?

    and since you are complaining after the fact, what do you see that could have been done differently?

    it seems to me that there has been poor communication between you and the dealer and both can accept some blame on that front.

    Sorry.
    IMO

  • juliekcmo
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It was my understanding that the current setup was in place by a PO -- Previous Owner.

  • krycek1984
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Correct julie - it was put in place by the previous owner.

    As far as I know, there isn't a cold air return. My Home Inspector said that since it was a 97% efficient furnace, no cold air vent was needed.

    There is a big vent in the front of the house in the parlor that looks like it was the cold air return at some point but it goes no where no...it just empties into the basement.

    The home inspector said it was installed in an "ameteurish" manner. The PO's had an HVAC person come in and they are the ones that said it was up to code but not ideal, but who knows, it was their HVAC person and they wanted to sell the house.

    The house is 1750 sq ft. It's very frustrating because we have this brand new furnace but the ductwork seems less than ideal.

    I will have to get an HVAC person in at some point to see what they say, and I will be mindful of your suggestions in choosing someone.

    If you want I can take some pictures to show you exactly what they did.

    It doesn't help the first floor has 10' ceilings and the second floor has 9' ceilings so it's harder to heat to begin with.

    I don't know if the size of the furnace is appropriate but I assume it is. It runs a lot in the winter because of all the air it has to push upstairs, I'm guessing.

  • juliekcmo
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The furnace most likely vents through a concentric vent kit that runs to the outside on the roof or wall. That would be a 3" pvc pipe looking thing.

    I was talking about the air return for the circulating air in the rooms.

    My 1930s house has a boiler for heat, but the AC/HP air handler is in the attic and the air return is a large vent in my upstairs hallway ceiling. This is where the air is sucked in by the air handler, goes across the air handler and coils, and then the ductwork takes it to the rooms.

    A good dealer will be able to measure airflow at the different vents and quantify what it is, and then recommend how to improve it to where you are comfortable.

  • ribsu
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My home is a 1930 Craftsman. The heating system was updated to a HE gas furnace and an old condenser added for the AC. The AC fails to cool the whole 2 stories, but the heating system is more than adequate. I usually close off most of the upstairs vents in the winter and the rising hot air from down stairs is more than enough to keep the upstairs warm. Of course the ducting is strung from one end of the basement to the other and an old broom closet/clothes drop was utilized as the main channel for heating the 3 bedrooms and 1 bath upstairs. Unfortunately, some of the venting was strung thru the nice hot attic, which may account for the upstairs not being nice and cool in the summer, or it may be that 2 ac systems are needed. In any case, since it is now only me in the home, I have made some changes that work for me in this 2800 sf house. I don't know about not having a return air vent, by I have a huge one (filter size an odd 16x30) but works well. The gas vents to the outside thru the basement from the new HE system. My advice is to find HVAC service with someone who is knowledgeable about older homes, clever about giving GOOD advice on how to fix the problem, has some references (please make the effort and actually call them and make sure they had similar problems so you can see how it turned out), and one who has an eye on the budget. I can tell you when it came to making calls, I had guys tell me the AC system needed replacement, was incorrectly sized for the size of the house, needed cleaning, needed 2 systems, etc. The one who made the most sense offered free advice which was just to get a small window unit for AC in my bedroom (cools my bedroom, office and bathroom suite very well) and to leave my door to the bathroom upstairs open for the heat along with that vent to keep the pipes from freezing. He advised that when I was ready for the investment, to switch to 2 AC systems, one for upstairs and one for downstairs. With the money I save on the AC each summer, I should be able to do it correctly in another year or so, and I will call him! Not just because he offered a cheap solution, but because he wasn't just looking to empty my pockets, he was practical and asked good questions about my expectations, use and needs. He checked the air flow (good), checked the size of the air return (good), size of the units (good) and also looked at the Freon levels and if the heating system was in need of any service. He was thorough, thoughtful and knowledgeable. Best $60 I've spent in a while! So I would say, ask friends, family, BBB, co-workers, etc. This guy wasn't even in the book, he works strictly off word of mouth, my friend had used him for his AC and said he was honest (told him all it needed was some resistor that my friend could do himself, or he could do it for him!. Even at $60, it was a bargain, as my friend was sure it was his condenser. And that was going to be way more than a house visit! The resistor was $120 online. So look around, good luck, hope this helps you a little. Oh and BTW, PO's on my house were just cheap and went with the cheapest instead of doing some research. Sometimes, it isn't the money, its a lack of knowledge. For me, timing, money and practicality all work to come up with a better idea.