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Need To Replace Heat

Posted by arock10 (My Page) on
Fri, Sep 9, 11 at 16:46

Hi,
the current situation I am in is I bought an old house in virginia a year ago, but the boiler is quite old (use to be oil now converted to gas), the ac units are 10 years old, and the flue the boiler uses needs to be replaced (so I cant use it now). The boiler does work still, other then the flue, but I imagine it is quite inefficient. I have two zone central air so all the duct work is in place. The house is 2600 sq ft.

I have had 4 companies give me quotes, but 3 different setups. The first suggested remove the boiler, install gas furnaces and new ac units in each zone (so one up stairs one down stairs).
He gave 2 quotes one for

1. Rheem RGRM06EAMES 95% efficient, two stage, natural gas fired furnace with variable speed blower motor, installed in the basement
2. 14AJM24A01 2 ton, 16 S.E.E.R., A/C outdoor unit installed on a pad
3. RCQD2417CC indoor cooling coil installed on gas furnace
at $13,287

and one:
1. Rheem RGTS06EMAES 90% efficient, natural gas fired furnace installed in the attic
2. 13AJN24A01 2 ton, 13 S.E.E.R., A/C outdoor unit installed on a pad
3. RCFLHM2417CC indoor cooling coil installed on gas furnace
at $10,654.00

Next company was all about some boilers. They just wanted to replace the boiler, though a high effiency model was an option because then it could just be vented out the side versus replacing the flue (which is about $1700-2500).

#1 Utica MGB 125 80% cast iron wet base boiler
$8,259 - but I'd need to replace the flue so not likely worth it

#2 Navien Combi CH240 92% $13,200

#3 Buderus GB142 95% $18,300

installing new regulators and radiator $800
removal of current boiler $1,300 (or just leave it in the basement?)

Then Sears suggested leave the boiler, fix the flue and get replace the AC units with heatpumps. Its pretty mild around here usually so I liked this idea.

2x 2 ton 15 SEER Kenmore $14,537

They offered 18 months 0% interest financing too which is a nice option though not required. I didnt like how this guy was just a salesmen though.

Lastly, an installer for a third company came out. I suggested the heatpump strategy like Sears did and liked that and gave me a quote.

1) Install 2.5 ton Carrier 10 kw heat pump to second floor system.
2) Install 2 ton Carrier 10 kw heat pump to first floor system
Tie into existing duct work, rewire thermostat as needed and duct work to upstairs system.

15 Seer equipment: $11,726.70
Air Handler and Condenser: 25HCC5 and Fan Coil: FX4DNF

13 Seer equipment: $10,473.81
Air Handler and Condenser: 25HBC3 and Fan Coil: FB4CNF

3) Install Stainless steel chimney liner: $1,710.00

So these guys were much cheaper then Sears and I believe Carrier is slightly better then Kenmore?

Thank you for reading this far, I apologize for the length but wanted to be complete.

Any thoughts on this? I am leaning towards the last setup. Anything else I should be looking for?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Need To Replace Heat

How is the house currently heated? Do you have baseboards, radiators, steam, hot water etc, single pipe, two pipe, etc?

Do you want to abandon the current heating plant and switch to a forced hot air system? Baseboard heating is the most comfortable, so consider this before you abandon it. Also consider where the AC ducts are installed. They may not be located for comfortable heating.

Don't waste time talking to Sears or any big box store. Your situation calls for a good HVAC company.


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RE: Need To Replace Heat

The house is currently heated with the boiler which uses radiators. No idea on its details other then it originally used oil and was converted over to gas at some point.

I have no particular attachment or preference to the type of heat I use. I live in virginia which is usually reasonably mild during the winter (not many below freezing days), but summers are pretty damn hot.

Duct vents are located on the floor downstairs and the ceiling upstairs. Again, why I am leaning towards just replacing the AC units with heatpumps and repairing the chimney because it will leave me with 2 (3 types of heating if you count electrical strips in the heatpump, I think thats a standard thing with them?). Sure the boiler may die at some point and isnt efficient, but it does crank out some serious heat still.

Sears called me because I submitted my info through service magic. The first two quotes came from guys off angie's list


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RE: Need To Replace Heat

Was a heat calc done? 2 x 60,000 BTU way high for 2600 SF in VA.


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RE: Need To Replace Heat

The only company that measured the house and the windows was the boiler company. Sears I think just went off the current models and the other 2 just went off square footage.

Who came back with 60,000 BTUs? The only sizing calculations I paid attention to was tonnage which seems to be more or less correct on the units that listed them (but I guess thats just the heatpumps/AC units).

Also I have 10ft tall ceilings and probably less then ideal attic insulation.


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RE: Need To Replace Heat

1. Rheem RGTS06EMAES

06 = 60,000 (or close enough). If oversized, will result in short cycles, temperature fluctuations, possibly shorter life.


V


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RE: Need To Replace Heat

Ok np. So what about the heatpump setups? I'm trying to not only decide what the best setup is but also the best deal since I've been given a variety of different ways to do this


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RE: Need To Replace Heat

Get the highest efficiency single stage heatpumps. If your house isn't leaky, and pretty well insulated you will find them to provide a comfy heat and be you will have reasonable electric bills. Ofcourse the heatpumps don't do as well during the very cold weather. Thats when your gas boiler might be useful.

The carrier quote with the 15 seer heatpumps is probably your best value. You might want to see how much it costs to upgrade the air handler to the gas furnaces.

If your paying for the monthly gas service fee, you should probably take advantage of the gas service in some way.


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RE: Need To Replace Heat

"Get the highest efficiency single stage heatpumps. If your house isn't leaky, and pretty well insulated you will find them to provide a comfy heat and be you will have reasonable electric bills. Ofcourse the heatpumps don't do as well during the very cold weather. Thats when your gas boiler might be useful."

This is what I was thinking. I've got storm windows but the house could be better insulated, but on those few sub 32 degree days I could just run the boiler.

As for the gas fee I am in a city so I dont really pay much of a minimum monthly fee.


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RE: Need To Replace Heat

If your keeping the boiler, then using it as your backup for when below 32 would be the perferect situation. I thought you needed a new boiler also.

Try to add some insulation in your attic. It really does help quite a bit. Its relatively cheap too.


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RE: Need To Replace Heat

The boiler still works, its just old and not efficient. The flue that it vents out on needs to be replaced, I've been quoted $1700 for that.

As for insulation, I would love to do that, but I have a bunch of knob and tube wiring (old house) running through the attic and everywhere I've read (and been told by professionals) you dont want to bury that stuff because it still gets warm


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RE: Need To Replace Heat

in that case, keep the old boiler and use for when its below 30 degrees. The new heatpumps will work fine when above 30.

I did blown in into my attic, I blew right over the top with blown cellulose. I haven't had any trouble in the 3 years since I did this project myself.

If you grab a handful of the cellulose, and try to light it on fire with a lighter, you'll discover it doesn't burn well at all. You could use fiberglass rolls without the craft paper. I never did a burn test on that though.


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RE: Need To Replace Heat

Sears wanted to give me another quote, they gave me one on a higher end model 16 seer.

Model: 25HPA624A003, 16S, 2t, Vert, SS, 2-stg, Louver Guard
Model: SYSTXCCUID01-B, 1-PK/CAC INFINITY CONTROL,
Model: FE4ANF002T00, 2t, VS, MP, 1 -piece, optional HS, 208-230v, TP
Model: KFCEH2501C08, 8KW,W/CIRC BRKR,1-PH, ERS

Sears said they were at over capacity so could give me 20% off and also these units get $1k carrier rebate each.

So after the rebate it'd come out to about $15,250 for 2 of them installed.

I am still leaning towards this one for $11,726

1) Install 2.5 ton Carrier 10 kw heat pump to second floor system.
2) Install 2 ton Carrier 10 kw heat pump to first floor system
Tie into existing duct work, rewire thermostat as needed and duct work to upstairs system.

15 Seer equipment: $11,726.70
Air Handler and Condenser: 25HCC5 and Fan Coil: FX4DNF

But if the Sears system is worth the extra money I'd consider it


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RE: Need To Replace Heat

I don't think its worth the extra money. I would stick with the 11,700 quote.


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