I should mention that the quotes are complete with installation and the Lennox quotes include $295 for the iComfort option.

Harley

The major differences between modulating furnaces and two stage furnaces are comfort and price.

Breaking down your quotes.

The first Bryant quote is a top of line Bryant Evolution modulating system.
The second Bryant quote is a two stage high eff furnace not var speed paired with a two stage AC Preferred series AC condenser.

The Lennox quotes are for top of line modulating model and a two stage var speed furnace. Both Lennox quotes include the same sgl stage condenser, a low end model in my opinion.

If best humidity control for AC cooling is important for you and your climate, then I would want a furnace with a var speed blower.

I personally like Bryant over Lennox. If Lennox though, I would upgrade the AC condenser.

You did not list the evap coil which is important. Again I like Bryant coils over Lennox.

I would want to see all model numbers to confirm AHRI Directory matching number.

Anything said about a filter cabinet?

Both Lennox and Bryant should have a rebate program in place by end of this month. Ask dealers.

I want a system that qualifies for Fed Tax Credit.

IMO

This post was edited by tigerdunes on Mon, Aug 12, 13 at 7:08

There are no AC condensers sizes listed for the Bryant quotes. You don't have a valid quote unless you have sizes and model numbers of every piece of equipment.

The SEER ratings are meaningless unless the coil size and model numbers are specified.

How big is your house? Do you know how the sizes of the furnaces and condensers were determined? What are the sizes of the current equipment?

Mike

I believe these are 3 ton condensers as listed in the Lennox quotes.

80 K 95+% on Bryant furnaces
90 K 95+% on Lennox furnaces

Yes I would like to see all model numbers and know the size OP is replacing. For location, heating would be more important than cooling.

IMO

Thanks for the great info. I will post models and house sizes with calculations tonight. There was info on the filters which I will also include.

The Bryant quote did include several different combinations of furnace and AC units.

Is it OK to scan in the complete quotes and attach them? I can blank out all the personal/company info easy enough.

OK

What size home?

What size furnace and AC are you replacing.

Pst back.

IMO

You can scan the quotes as long as it is readable. If you have several quotes than it would be better to provide a summary of each.

Not trying to high jack the thread but needed to say thank you to all whom posted.
I unfortunately do all the home projects . THe husband is complaining that the 15 year old central ac unit is failing so I am now trying to educate myself on the systems before I can make a decision.
I never knew to consider the coils in a system.
I never even heard of Bryant .
YOur knowledge is sincerely appreciated.

This post was edited by chickadee4 on Tue, Aug 13, 13 at 13:48

For the previous poster.

It s considered poor forum etiquette to hijack a thread.

Go to the home page and start your own thread.

You will get advice from pros.

And just so you know, Bryant and Carrier are sister HVAC companies that for all practical purposes carry identical equipment, just the name badge and cabinetry differences.

IMO

The square footage is:
Main: 1280
Upper: 1020
Basement (Finished): 1080

Question: I think one of the bidders used 1432 for the main square footage. Would that make a difference in the unit size required? Or it is close enough?

Current Equipment:
Trane XE90
Model TUC100C984A0
Serial: H40501366
100,000 BTU
Mfrd: 10/93
Category IV

Goodman
Model CK30 1B
Serial 9405068755

I was told the original equipment was oversized. I don't recall if it was the furnace or AC.

I will post the quotes next.

Here is a link to the Lenox quote. Please let me know if you have trouble reading it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lenox Quote

Here is a link to the Bryant bid. As you can see it includes many different combinations of furnace and AC options.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bryant Bid

I will come back to your quotes later in the day.

I think first you have to ask yourself what type of furnace you want.
What exactly are you looking for in a system; cost, comfort, expectations?

These are your furnace choices

1.High eff modulating var speed

2.High eff two stage var speed

3.High eff two stage non var speed

4.High eff single stage non var speed

If you intend to do zoning, then you would want 1,2, or 3 and a two stage AC condenser.

Just so you know, there are several benefits to a var speed blower motor but the main one is better dehumidification in AC mode. If humidity for your location/climate is less of a concern, then var speed becomes less of an issue.

Post back.

I personally think you are on the borderline of TMI, too much information.

IMO

Thanks for the great feedback. Sorry for the lengthy post. Basically we went into this purchase not knowing anything about what was new and great in this HVAC space so it's been a learning experience. Any maybe I was asking the wrong questions originally. After what we have learned through this buying experience I think I am more interested in the recommendation for the type of systems we should be considering. Then we can consider the bids.

This was our criteria going in:
1. We know we need to replace our existing system due to increased maintenance costs year after year for both furnace and AC, age, and the AC A-coil (?) pan is leaking and can't be fixed (rusted out).
2. We have a difficult time cooling our second level and heating our basement even after manually changing the baffles each Spring and Fall (3 manual zones). I basically guess on where they should be set and leave them there for the season. We definitely have pockets of heated and cooled areas.
3. Decrease our heating and cooling bills considering cost vs. return.
4. Purchase a quality system from a reputable vendor at a fair price. It's the "quality system" I can't do myself because I don't know much about this other than the research I do on the internet, which is hit and miss as you know.
5. My wife doesn't like the booming noise the furnace makes when it starts (which is probably really loud compared to any new model regardless of type). :-)

Overall we are more concerned about heating than cooling in this area. We never gave much thought to dehumidification going into this before we talked to reps and read the forums. I think it's probably less important given it's typically only a month or two out of the year where we worry about it. Actually we are probably more concerned with the opposite, humidification, in the winter months. The house is dry. That is why we are considering adding a whole house humidifier.

I think from what I've learned here and our #2 above is that we want to go with automatic zoning. Given that Tigerdunes I feel like we should be considering your options 1 and 2 with a 2-stage AC??? Maybe we can focus on those bids/equipment. Does that make sense and reduce the TMI?

Thanks again.

Others may disagree with me, but I don't see how a non-variable speed furnace can work well with zoning. I think it is going to be noisy and add a lot of extra wear on the blower.

My choice would be a 2-stage variable speed furnace and 2-stage AC. I have the Carrier/Bryant 3-stage furnace, but it has been dropped and has been replaced by the modulating furnace. I feel most people don't have to spend the extra money on a fully modulating furnace.

I think it does.

Putting price aside( can anyone really do that?), I think Bryant has better equipment and you could get an argument from others but the Evolution/ Infinity zoning controls are the best integrated system in the residential space. Of course, it goes without saying that you should qualify any dealer with his experience in zoning controls and ductwork design/ modifications.

2. "We have a difficult time cooling our second level and heating our basement even after manually changing the baffles each Spring and Fall (3 manual zones). I basically guess on where they should be set and leave them there for the season. We definitely have pockets of heated and cooled areas."

I assume you have pointed out the areas of concern to the dealer as far as hot/cold spots in your home. If not you should do so immediately before making any deal.

The sweet spot for RH in winter heating is 35-40 RH for best comfort. You know if the house is dry and problems such as static electricity and dry throats. Good RH and lower house temp is the combination for comfort and saving money. Zones can be programmed depending on time of day use and even cut off.

Booming noise usually is symptom of bad ductwork sizing/design. Discuss with dealer.

IMO

If nothing else your feedback has educated me on reading the bids and that in itself has been quite helpful.

I have a couple related questions.

One bid is for a 90,000 BTU furnace while the other is for a 80,000 BTU furnace. That didn't make sense to me unless it's basically how the different manufactures break down their units. The Lennox rep calculated 81,200 BTU out required. Not sure what BTU the Bryant rep calculated out. Should I be concerned given my sq ft numbers above? (Especially since my current unit is rated at 100,000 BTU).

It doesn't appear that my Lennox bid includes a 2 stage AC unit. And there was some concern above on the AC unit that was included in my bid. Is there a recommendation for a Lennox AC I should inquire about in order to compare against my Bryant bid?

I am currently leaning toward a 2-stage furnace with variable fan and a 2-stage AC unit. Probably more towards Bryant than Lennox at this time.

Harley

Lennox sizes their furnaces different than Carrier/Bryant.

In the 95%+ plus models..

Lennox 70, 90,110
Carrier/Bryant 80,100,120

Blower size on each model has to be paid attention to...

Lennox bid is on low end Sgl stage AC condenser. I don't like the ACX series at all. Maybe for rental. Depending on configuration it does offer good numbers but I still call it low end builder grade.

As far as the Bryant 80 K models, you will be just fine. It is only a few thousand in BTUs below what you have now when taking efficiency into consideration.

And for Mike, I will disagree with you about the high eff two stage furnaces non variable speed. The main difference is var speed and that would not affect zoning. Now the Sgl stage models are an entirely different matter. Of course for the modulating and two stage models, you need the correct controller or thermostat. Too many dealers cheat in this area.

IMO

I suppose a mult-speed 2-stage furnace can work with zoning. It comes down to how much adjustment is possible especially if you are also trying to set the air flow for a 2-stage AC.

A heat load calculation of 81,200 BTU at 25 degree outdoor temperature seems high for a 2300 sq. foot house. I think an 80K BTU furnace should be fine.

We decided to go with a 2-stage, variable furnace and a single stage AC.

I received my final bid from a no-nonsense Trane installer with 30+ years experience. Here are the 3 systems I am considering.

Trane XV95 80,000 BTU 95% 2 Stage Variable Speed Gas Furnace
Trane XB13 2.5 Ton 13 Seer Central Air Conditioner with New A Coil
Honeywell 3 Zone Automatic Damper System
Aprilaire 2410 Pleated Filter Unit
New Honeywell Programmable Thermostats (not sure on models)
Aprilaire 600 Automatic Humidifier with Outdoor Sensor
A O Smith 50 Gallon Water Heater
Hauling, Tax and Labor: $7880

Lennox Elite EL296UHV-090 90,000 BTU 2-Stage Variable Speed Gas Furnace
Lennox 14ACX-036 Central Air Conditioner, 16 Seer, C33-49 Coil
iHarmony 3 zone system (main board, +2 controls, 3 dampers)
iComfort Option plus 2 controls
Healthy Climate Fitler HC-16 MERV 16
Aprilaire 600 Automatic Humidifier
Bradford 50 gallon water heater
Hauling, Tax and Labor: $8955

Bryant Perferred 925T 80,000 BTU 2 Stage with ECM blower motor
Bryant 126B 3 ton single stage AC - 16 Seer
Honeywell 3 Zone Automatic Damper System
Honeywell Focus Pro 6000 Programmable Wi-Fi Thermostat (1 unit)
Honeywell Pro 4000 (2 units)
Aprilaire 2410 Pleated Filter Unit
Aprilaire 600A Automatic Humidifier with Outdoor Sensor
Bradford 50 Gal water heater
Hauling, Tax and Labor: $8926

I'm don't think the Bryant is variable speed but maybe a 2-speed but this seems as close as I can get with the information in my bid without stepping up to the Evolution.

Please advise. There is no need to repeat any previous concerns already stated above. I am leaning towards the Trane based on price/performance.

Thanks again for all the great feedback.

I would not go with a single stage condenser for a 3 zone system. That would be a mistake.

I would assume from the pricing, you are leaning toward the Trane. I would want to know the evap coil model number and thermostat model numbers. You note the Trane dealer has quoted a 2 1/2 ton, the others a 3 ton.

Any of these systems qualify for Fed Tax credit or does that matter?

And again, the Bryant 925T while high efficient is not var speed.

It's important to know how the stages of these two stage furnaces will be controlled.

My final thoughts.

IMO