Not exactly apples to apples.

The Trane system is a HP system, albeit a low end system. AHRI performance/efficiency numbers below. AHRI shows this as a discontinued system.

4941258 Discontinued Systems XB13 WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWB3060B1 GAT2A0C60S51+TDR 1750 57000 10.00 13.00 56000 8.50 37400 1 HRCU-A-CB 531 1368

Now to the Rheem system. It is not a HP system but a straight AC system that relies completely on expensive heat strips for heating. Has a high eff air handler.

3600526 Active Systems RHEEM RANL SERIES RHEEM MANUFACTURING COMPANY RANL-060JAZ RHLL-HM6024+RCSL-H*6024 1800 60000 11.50 13.50 1 RCU-A-CB 538

IMO

Tiger dunes thanks for noticing that the Rheems unit is not a heat pump. I will need to get a quote for an HP. Do you feel the quote on the Trane system is fair?

Al

Did not see any prices on your post.

For your location, I would want a var speed air handler for improved dehumidification in AC cooling. A mistake without it.

If your decision is price driven, I would ask Trane dealer to go back and quote the XB14 with var speed air handler. I don't like the low end XB13.

5315800 Active Systems XB14 WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWB4061E1 *AM7B0C60H51 1545 57500 12.00 15.00 55500 8.50 35800 1 HRCU-A-CB 464 1368

IMO

For your location, I would want a var speed air handler for improved dehumidification in AC cooling. A mistake without it.

I agree the vs ahu will really help with dehumdification.
I also think that your quoted are for oversized systems.
contrary to what many hvac contractors tell you,
bigger is not better.

when oversized, the unit will not run long enough to
remove humidity. plus more upfront costs & long
term costs to operate.

humidity is our problem to address in La.
keeping the RH inside the house in the 50-55%
will make a world of difference in comfort.

if you downsize, even to 4 tons instead of 5,
you can use the extra $$ to upgrade efficiency.

15-17 SEER will save you money to offset costs
within a couple of years here in south La.

also if you seal the ductwork, returns & supply
boxes the air you pay to heat & cool will
come into the living space rather than leaking
out before it gets there.

best of luck.

I don't necessarily disagree with energy rater but I sure don't want to be undersized in Deep South Gulf States where AC is so important.

From the OP, he has a 5 ton unit and just from that should be able to judge run times, CPH, and RH.

IMO

Tiger dunes & energy rater thanks for the advice. I will get quotes on the VS units.

Sorry, I had posted prices the first time but the post failed to load. When I retyped it I forgot to include prices. Anyway price quotes are as follows:

Trane = $8,626
Rheems = $ 4,955

Do these prices seem fair for Louisiana.
Thanks again!

Al

Will wait and see what Rheem dealer quotes before commenting on pricing.

I would want a HP system that provided a minimum 14 SEER, 12 EER, 8.50 HSPF with full BTUs for rated size. And definitely a VS air handler.

IMO

Another consideration is that my family and I will likely relocate in a year or two due to a job related move. We want to sell if possible, not sure if we will get any of our money back on a mid to high end system. Our current system is a single stage and single speed system which has worked fine.

Al

Updated quote on the Rheem system. For a HP system 13 SEER the quote is now:

Model # RPNL060JAZ
Price $5700
This include AH and 15 Kw heat strips

Was curious if this and the Trane quote are fair prices?

Al

Certainly comparable to the Trane HVAC that I thought was on the high side price wise.

I would suggest getting an upgrade price on the Rheem RPQL condenser. Better numbers. I would also recommend HW Mdl 8321 thermostat.

Compare any warranty differences between the Trane and Rheem.

IMO

Ok, system is installed but it took 2 return visits of installer to get the thermostat and unit to actually cool the house. Turns out the installer was not aware of a "tech" setting on the thermostat.

Seems like the unit runs all day and is not able to keep up. Set at 77F but house remains at 82F while the sun is up. The old Carrier unit (model 38YRA060300) had no problem cooling of the house and bringing down temperatures no matter how hot the day (100+F). Yesterday was rainy, cloudy, and only in the low 80s and unit still couldn't control temperature.

Al

Thermostat is a "Pro1 IAQ" model T705.

Al

Should have also stated we had installed the Rheem unit.

Rheem 5 ton 13 SEER HP system with 15 kw heat strip
Condensor RANL060JAZ
Air handler RHLLHM6024JA

Al

As I told you in earlier post, the RANL is not a HP, but an AC condenser.

If this is the Mdl you installed, a big mistake.

What happened to the RPNL, hope this is the model you actually had installed.

BTW, what brand is that thermostat,the 8321 should have been installed. It has the humidity sensor.

IMO

You have a significant installation problem if you can't cool a 2700 sq. foot house with a 5 ton condenser when it is cloudy outside and the temperature is in the low 80s.

I would be concerned that the contractor has already returned to your house twice and the AC is still not even close to operating properly.

When is the contractor coming back to fix the issue?

As Mike states, something definitely not right.

IMO

I apologize I was posting from the original quote. These are the updated model numbers from the installation receipt:

Rheem 5 ton 13 SEER HP system with 20 kw heat strip
Condensor RPNL060JAZ
Air handler RHLLHM6024JA

We did opt for the heat pump.

I am concerned after reviewing the installation manuals. In the trouble shooting section and early in the manual it states that for ideal efficiency an AH unit should have 400cfm of airflow per ton of cooling effect. Elsewhere it states 375-425cfm. When I looked at the "AHRI Rated Indoor Air Flow for Matched Systems" it rates the two available matching AHs as rated for only 1800 cfm (max). I checked the AH installation manual and it states the unit that was installed is the RHLL (high efficiency) unit which is only rated at 1661cfm max. The other RHSL (standard efficiency) unit is rated at 1844cfm at 240v and 1796cfm at 115v.

I am a mechanical engineer by trade and it seems to me that by design the 5 ton Rheem units (at max performance) are sub optimized to start with and the high efficiency unit will not be able to deliver a true 5 tons of cooling capacity, based on cfm. I am not ruling out the likelihood I don't have the full picture, but I am now concerned the unit can not deliver a true 5 ton cooling capacity and is not correctly matched to my home. Any advice here is certainly appreciated.

I am puzzled how our previous 19 year old Carrier heat pump had no issues keeping up on the hottest days. It was a Carrier model # 38YRA060300. Perhaps it had more capacity? Would anyone happen to have numbers on these units.

I would like to be well prepared before having this discussion with the installer.

Thanks for all the advice so far!

Al

I think you are mistaken and barking up the wrong tree.

AHRI shows this as a matching system. See below.

3544242 Active Systems RHEEM RPNL SERIES RHEEM MANUFACTURING COMPANY RPNL-060JAZ RHLL-HM6024+RCSL-H*6024 1800 60500 11.00 13.00 58500 8.50 38000 1 HRCU-A-CB Yes 563 1368

While the condenser you installed is a basic 13 SEER HP condenser,it does have the high eff air handler not var speed. Rheem is a good company and their HVAC is often overlooked.

Do you know what the installer set the airflow at?

I would advise you to take some supply vent temperature readings at different locations in your home. Note time, location, temp reading, and outside temperature reading. Also indoor and outdoor RH as well.

I believe this is an install issue.

Post back when you get the readings.

What brand is that thermostat?

IMO

This post was edited by tigerdunes on Sat, Aug 10, 13 at 12:44

Tigerdunes,

I started measuring room temps yesterday and the house appears to have relatively uniform temperatures throughout. The various room temperatures also appear to match the thermostat measured temp. Unfortunately, the unit can't reach the set. Is there a specific procedure for measuring duct temperatures? Do I stick to thermometer into the grille of the vent, attach to the grille, or suspend it below?

Al

Digital hygrometer for both temperature and RH readings. Also take temperature of returns.

IMO

A quick assessment today:

Cloudy to partly cloudy today, with a few showers.
Outside air temps mostly 86-88F, hit a brief high of 91F when the sun came out for an hour or two.
Inside home temperature was set at 76F which the system maintained until 1:15pm and slowly rose to 78F by 2:30pm. It is now 6pm and still at 78F. I checked the attic which hit a high of 100F and is now at 94F.

Room temperatures have been relatively uniform at 77-78F most of the afternoon. A small indoor/outdoor thermometer inserted inside the vent at the grilles has registered a constant 65-67F throughout the day. Grilles farthest from the AH had the slightly higher temps.

-Al

This is an install issue or leaky ductworks. You should be getting supply temps no higher than 60 degrees. I tend to think you have a charge issue and you won't be satisfied for comfort until this is addressed and corrected.

I definitely would get a hygrometer digital model. They are relatively cheap and can be purchased at any big box store.

You need a HP tech experienced in correct refrigerant charge.

IMO

You should have a temperature difference of 15-20 degrees between the return and supply air. Take the temps with a digital thermometer at the air handler if possible. I have seen undersized liquid lines cause this problem also make sure they are 3/8.