Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
lacsdmbl

compare TRANE equipment bid

lacsdmbl
10 years ago

Greetings forum readers:

Can I get some opinion about the equipment below as 3 items matched for install? Are they well matched within each group and does any group of equipment appear worth price differentials? I am a homeowner with little experience in HVAC matters. All units below are TRANE, it appears

Also, are ARHI #s necessary for all portions of each system, not just the coil?

Price for bid differences are below, also

Received proposals from one contractor for the following:

Furnace XV80 TUD2C100B9V5VB
Coil T4TXCD063BC3HCA AHRI 5456393, 5 ton
Condensor XR16 T4TTR6060B1000A, 5 ton
Bottom price system

OR

Furnace XT80 TUD1C080A9H4
Coil T4TXFH063CZ3HHB ARHI 5868100, 5ton
Condenser XR16 T4TTR6048B1000A, 4 ton
$1000 more than base item above

But they offered 2 stage furnace and condensers from TRANE at 18 SEER like this:

Furnace XV80 TUD2C080B9V4VB
Coil T4TXCD063BC3HCA AHRI 5943139 5 ton
Condensor XLi18 T4TTX8048A1000A 5 ton
$ 800 more than base system above

OR

Furnace XV80 TUD2D120B9V5VB
Coil T4TXCD063BC3HC ARHI 5801268 4 ton
Condensor XLi T4TTX8060A1000 A (16 SEER (typo in bid, 18 ton))/13 EER), 5 ton
$2000 more than base cost above

All with single thermostat Trane XL602, no zoning

All ducting changed to R-8 (from ancient R-4 style)

Home is single story 2200 sq ft in Edison climate zone 9 in Southern California.

Comments (13)

  • tigerdunes
    10 years ago

    Wrong thermostat definitely.

    Pls describe typical winters and typical summers.

    What size HVAC are you replacing, both furnace and AC?

    Is good AC dehumidification in AC cooling important to you for your climate?

    Post back.

    IMO

  • lacsdmbl
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Hi Tigerdunes:

    Thank you for the quick response, much appreciated. Typical winters are cool but only a couple frost days, no snow, summers have several peak hot periods with temps in the 90s and 2 week periods of 100. Humidity is usually low in the summers, with a few tropical inflows periodically. A little warmer than Los Angeles city in the summer.

    Replacing 17+ year 5 ton Lennox single stage with 90,000 BTU gas furnace. No zoning in the house and likely not needed.

    Currently supply is from above thru attic/ while returns are near floor in most rooms(re use of 1950 furnace ducts).

    Proposals vary from continuing this crawlspace/attic install to a "put everything in the attic and get proper seal on ducts.

    My crude measurements show there is about 20" more of supply duct space than existing return duct diameter all based on a trunk and branch design from decades ago.

    New contractors mostly suggesting a plenum and direct duct per room where space available.

    Of course, any advice is helpful as I am concerned not just with well matched equipment but proper duct balance, too.

    Thanks again for any comments

  • tigerdunes
    10 years ago

    LA

    Well, from the choices presented, sizing is all over the place. Your proposals were all from the same contractor?

    If your home is reasonably insulated, I would not think you need more than a 4 ton condenser.

    Because you have relatively moderate winters, I like the idea of the XV80 two stage var speed furnace in the 80 KBTU size.

    Condenser selection really depends on what you are looking for in comfort and budget. Single stage models like XR15 and XL15i or two stage AC condensers like XR16.

    5456114 Active Systems XR16 TRANE 4TTR6048A1 4TXCD063BC3 1190 950 *UD2C080A9V4 48000 13.00 17.00 1 RCU-A-CB 342 Yes

    Here are the matching numbers of the XV80 paired with the two stage model XR16. Good numbers and qualifies for Fed Tax Credit. As noted in previous post, dealer is quoting incorrect thermostat. For best operation you want a true two stage thermostat. A good dealer would know that.

    Unclear about the return in the crawlspace. Is there a reason for this? How has this performed for you? Return trunk line runs back to attic through a closet or chase? How is return air filtered? Do you have a filter cabinet? Do you have individual room returns or several central returns strategically located in your home? Sorry for all the questions but would appreciate further elaboration.

    IMO

  • lacsdmbl
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Hello tigerdunes:

    I really appreciate your good comments and questions. Here are my attempts to answer:

    All recommendations from the same contractor.

    I also agree about your 4 ton advice.

    Thank you for the condenser advice and clear advice on proper thermostat selection.

    Old returns in the crawl space pre-dates our ownership by many years so I have no reason why they did that, other than to reuse decades old "furnace-only" house design Believe the have developed duct-boot leakages and one large return is nearly innaccesible from below, due to plumbing lines--so attic space is more generous.

    If returns move to attic they would return thru ceiling grills into plenum. The house is much longer than wide and returns are likely to positioned in 2 or 3 locations.

    The old design of returns in the crawl space allowed the bedrooms and dinning room to have their own 8" floor level return duct. Kitchen and large family room use a larger return that is mounted in the corner of room.

    Another contractor who suggested keeping the crawlspace returns with new ducting also commented that some crawlspace ducts might not be fully sealable due to access and resulting in "HERS" test issues.

    Thanks for any advice on the items above, its very good to get smart advice!

  • lacsdmbl
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Hi Tigerdunes:

    Can you explain to me what your earlier post of "RCU-A-CB 342 Yes" refers to/

    I think it has to do with the coil ARHI, but not sure how to interpret that infomration?

    thanks again

  • tigerdunes
    10 years ago

    "Can you explain to me what your earlier post of "RCU-A-CB 342 Yes" refers to/"

    Nothing for you to be concerned or worry about.

    The numbers you should be interested in are cooling BTUs, EER, and SEER.

    For the system I listed that would be 48 KBTUs, 13 EER, and 17 SEER

    Now of course those numbers come from the system which includes that evap coil model number and the 80 K XV80 furnace.

    If I understand you correctly, your home only has one return? If so that is not adequate and I would ask dealer to look at adding two other returns strategically located in your home. Pretty important regardless what has been told to you. I would assume that if this is difficult, then he will close up existing return and locate multiple returns in the ceiling, again strategically located. Number of returns, size of return, location is important and this should be discussed with dealer and understood. For a 4 ton blower on the furnace, returns should be sized for 1600-1800 CFMs. The right location will add additional comfort. Ductwork in attic should be R8 insulation or better and of course tightly sealed for minimum air loss.

    IMO

  • lacsdmbl
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Hi Tigerdunes:

    Thank you for this information. For clarification: we now have 5 8" duct returns in bedroom/dinning rooms and 2 14" returns at floor in hall and large family room. But think this underbalanced to supply from attic.

    Contractor will now be performing a Manual J and D calculation and sharing those load/design detals soon.

    New possible return design will include two ( or 3) 18" or larger returns in strategic locations.

    thanks again for your comments back

  • lacsdmbl
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Hello Tigerdunes and others:

    He has suggested the XL602 thermostat is proper for 2 stage system but could use the XL802 or 902; with the XL600 for single stage system. Does this sound more reasonable?

    The contractor has also suggested the Trane XR17 unit might be a worthwhile choice between his earlier XR16 and XL18i examples.

    I do not have this XR17 model number, but if anyone has an opinion about the XR17 being an "odd duck" or good equipment, would like to hear that.

    Does the "top hat" cover on higher end Trane compressors truly make a cost value difference?

    thanks for any feedback help

  • tigerdunes
    10 years ago

    LA

    For a home your size, I would want a minimum of three returns strategically located for best airflow and improved comfort. As stated earlier, sized for 1600-1800 CFMs.

    You want a two stage thermostat where the thermostat controls the staging of the two stage furnace based on demand, not a timer on control board that will always roll over to high stage whether needed or not.

    I have no way of knowing your budget. The XR16 that I listed in the system above has great numbers and has two stage cooling. Moving up gets you little to nothing. Weigh the price difference.

    Two-Stage XR16 air conditioner models (R-410A refrigerant)
    Model Cooling Capacity (BTUH) Nominal Tons Height (in.) Width (in.) Depth (in.)

    4TTR6048A 48,000 4 45 37 34

    Regarding the XLi series of condensers really involves two features. An extra 2 yrs on compressor warranty and of course the proprietary top. I have an 8 yr old XL14i and a backyard with trees. The top does reduce leaves dropping inside the condenser cabinet. Other than that, the top serves no other purpose. Sound difference between the XR series and XLi series condensers is inconsequential.

    IMO

  • ryanhughes
    10 years ago

    FYI for everyone:

    The 2-stage XR16 is being phased out by the XR17 (also 2-stage). Just a product name change. Hope this prevents any further confusion to you as you decide.

  • ryanhughes
    10 years ago

    FYI for everyone:

    The 2-stage XR16 is being phased out by the XR17 (also 2-stage). Just a product name change. Hope this prevents any further confusion to you as you decide.

  • tigerdunes
    10 years ago

    Thx Ryan...

    Still a bit confused on Trane's marketing name changes..
    Trane's website still lists both the XR16 and XR17.

    TD

  • lacsdmbl
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thank you for this good updates and clarifications on two model features.