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Advice on New Trane Quote

Posted by Frugger (My Page) on
Thu, Jul 5, 12 at 21:52

House is located in central Virginia (Charlottesville). House (and all systems) are 3 years old.
All exterior walls and roof are spray foam insulated. The house is 3 stories (finished),
sits on a conditioned crawl space and has the following HVAC:

1st Floor: 1519 Sq Ft.
Goodman 1.5 Ton / 13 Seer Air Conditioning Goodman 45,000 BTU /
1200CFM Gas Furnace

2nd Floor: 1431 Sq Ft.
3rd Floor: 690 Sq Ft.
Goodman 2.0 Ton 14 SEER 24,000 BTU AC/Heat Pump with electric damper.

The problem I'm having is that during the summer the first floor will not cool below
75F. Granted for the last week the temperatures here have been between 100F - 106F, but
during the hot & humid summers here 75F is as low as it will get during the day (and I
work from home). My neighbors on both sides of me have the exact same HVAC systems and
their homes are also 3 stories, but smaller square footage. They both have 2 Ton systems
for the first floor and 2.5 & 3 Ton for the 2nd/3rd floors. I had a local contractor come
out and give me a quote for the following Trane system to replace the 1st Floor:

1st Floor:
Heat Pump: 4TWZ0024A1
Coil: 4TWZ0024A1
Furnace: TUHMB060ACV3VA
Thermostat: XL 950
2 TON
17.5 SEER

OTHER:
LINESET
REDUCE TRUNK LINE AFTER 20 FEET IN CRAWL
CONDENSATE DRAIN AND REFRIGERANT PIPING
NEW EQUIPMENT CONNECTION TO EXISTING DUCT
NEW SUPPLY OUTLETS
ELECTRICAL CONNECTIONS TO EXISTING SOURCE

Cost: $14,641.00 (This is after a 20% discount from $18,301.00)

Since I was having the 1st Floor replaced I thought I'd get a quote for the 2nd/3rd Floor so the HVAC would be matched. These
floors are ok and never really have a problem heating or cooling, but I was curious to see what
it would run (might be more energy efficient and save me some money).

2nd / 3rd Floor:
Heat Pump: 4TWZ0024A1
Air Handler: TAM8AOB30V21
Aux Heater: BAYEVAC10BK
Thermostat: XL 950
Other: Trane Zone
2 Ton
19 Seer

Cost: $16,089.00 (This is after a 20% discount from $20,111.00)

I think the first floor is undersized, so I'll probably need to upgrade. Any thoughts on the equipment specified and more importantly the cost? Seems a bit nuts to me after seeing what other people are being quoted for systems. I'd really appreciated any insight or advice.

Thanks!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Advice on New Trane Quote

You need more quotes and I would include an American STD dealer, sister company to Trane.

I really do not understand the pricing.

IMO


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RE: Advice on New Trane Quote

All manufacturers have a Bronze-Silver-Gold product selection. Bronze would be the 13-14 SEER, Silver would be 15-16 SEER, and Gold would be the 17-20 SEER units.

The quote you have is for the 20 SEER Trane heat pump series. Is this something you requested?

Please note that a 20 SEER system does not blow colder air than a 13 SEER system...it is just more efficient. I would recommend going with a mid-range heat pump, a variable speed air handler, and a zone control system for your main level. A zoning system will more efficiently deliver air throughout your main level.


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RE: Advice on New Trane Quote

The system you have been quoted is nice but it is the top of the line. the t-stat (xl950) is new and basically is a computer you hang on the wall. It is really expensive, several hundred dollars expensive. As far as the price you were quoted, the 20% discount seems more like a perceived value as the final price is more like the regular price.


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RE: Advice on New Trane Quote

"the t-stat (xl950) is new and basically is a computer you hang on the wall. It is really expensive, several hundred dollars expensive."

I got a couple of Trane quotes when I did my home and it seems standard procedure to include this T-stat with the XL systems. I do know that only -certain- XL components can talk to the fancy thermostat.


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RE: Advice on New Trane Quote

I've got a few more quotes coming in. Is the general consensus that the pricing is too high for this system (especially since they are using existing duct work)?

Thanks


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RE: Advice on New Trane Quote

Yes as far as I am concerned.


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UPDATED: Advice on New Trane / American Standard Quote

Finally got another quote - this one is for an American Standard system - They recommend:

First floor 17.0 SEER , 2-stage, 2.0 ton hybrid heat pump system
Remove the existing 1.5 ton outdoor Amana unit and indoor 60,000btu gas furnace in the crawl
space. Install a new outdoor American Standard Heritage 16 Series 2.0 ton/ 2-stage heat pump
system mounted on a level pad and pop-ups. Run a new refrigerant line from the outdoor unit
to the new indoor 95% efficient/ 80,000 BTU/ 2-stage natural gas furnace with a variable speed
blower motor. We will install new PVC intake/vent pipe, connect back into the exiting
condensation drains, make some duct modifications to fit the new furnace into the existing duct.
We will also add 2 supplies in the office and 1 in the family room.

American Standard Heritage 16- 2.0 ton 2-stage heat pump Model # 4A6H6024E1000A
American Standard 95% efficient natural gas furnace Model # AAM7A0B30H21SA
American Standard indoor evaporator coil Model # 4TXCB031BC3HCB

2nd/3rd floor 17.5 SEER, 3.0 ton heat pump system
Remove the existing 2.0 ton outdoor Amana unit and 3.0 ton indoor air handler in the 3 floor
knee wall. Install a new outdoor American Standard Heritage 16 Series 3.0 ton/ 2-stage heat
pump system mounted on a level pad and pop-ups. Run a new refrigerant line from the outdoor
unit to the new indoor variable speed air handler with a 10kw backup electric heat strip. We will connect back into the exiting condensation drains, make some duct modifications to fit the new
air handler into the existing duct.

American Standard Heritage 16- 3.0 ton 2-stage heat pump Model # 4A6H6036E1000A
American Standard 3.0 Variable-Speed air handler Model # AAM7A0B30H21SA
American Standard 10kw back-up electric heat strip Model # 4TXCB031BC3HCB

Price($ 15,950.00).
This price includes the equipment, taxes, labor, and a $1,600.00 dollar American Standard instant rebate.

Obviously 2 American Standard systems for the price of 1 Trane system is starting to sound a bit more realistic. Any recommendations on whether this looks in line for what costs/sizing should be?

Thanks in advance!


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RE: Advice on New Trane Quote

Frugger

I believe I recommended looking at AmStd.

Some observations.

Has a written load calculation for both main level and upstairs been performed and given to you in writing? You definitely don't need an 80
KBTU high eff furnace for the main floor system. A 60 K two stg 95% would do just fine and save you in operating costs. I also question whether a two ton condenser whether straight AC or HP is the correct size for main floor system.

I would want to know your electric and nat gas rates. Duel Fuel system may be overkill based on your location/climate for the main floor system.

What thermostats are being quoted? The correct thermostat makes a difference for best operation.

What about filter cabinets for both systems?

Do you have adequate return(s) for both system?

On the HP system for upper zone, I would want a 7/12 KW two heat strip.

Still not cheap but good equipment and I realize there is extra work involved.

I might consider substituting Heritage 15 HP for upper zone and 2 1/2 ton Allegiance AC for lower zone depending on your electric and nat gas rates.

That's it for now.

IMO


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RE: Advice on New Trane Quote

I don't know that I would get a two-stage HP unit with gas backing it up. I think I would come down to the single stage Xx15 in the Trane or the equivalent AmStd.

TD is right about the 80K furnace.

You need to have load calculations done to get you sized correctly.


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RE: Advice on New Trane Quote

Goodman air conditioning systems are known for their energy efficiency. They consume less electricity but generate maximum cooling. Each air conditioning system has been rated with high SEER (Seasonal Energy Efficiency Rate) rating, which proves their higher performance and lower energy consumption.

Here is a link that might be useful: Goodman Air Conditioning Systems


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