I would like your opinion on the following quotes:

Carrier Performance Series
2 TON HP 15 SEER / 8 HSPF, Silencer System II, equiv to 69dB
programmable digital thermostat by Aube or White Rogers (no mdl number given)
electrostatic air filter that is washable, does not use throw away filters (no manufacturer or mdl number given)
includes all new piping for the Puron gaz
15KW furnace (no mdl nunber given, was told there is only one model of furnace from Carrier
1 yr labour/10 yrs parts for both HP and furnace
6995

Whirlpool Gold WGHp44 Seer 14/HSPF 9
2.0 Ton Quiet Partner (was told it is about the same noise level as the Carrier performance)
programmable digital thermostat (no mdl name or manuf yet)
air filter (no mdl number or manufacturer yet)
15KW furnace WAHME
warranty for heat pump:
lifetime replacement of unit for compressor failure/10 yrs labour/10 yrs parts
warranty for furnace:
10 yrs labour/parts
includes all new piping for R410A gaz
5500

On the surface the Whirlpool has it hands down, but it's pretty unknown here as an HVAC provider. This firm has been selling it for one month and they push it much harder than the Carrier system although they are certified Carrier dealers. I am a uncertain about the reliability and the service for the Whirlpool.

Please let me know your comments on both products, and if anyone has comnents on the Whirlpool product. Was told it's been around for 15 yrs in America, and made in Florida or Houston. I don't want to buy a re-branded Goodman, since Goodman/Amana also own this Whirlpool brand.

I also received a Lennox quote for the Elite XP14/CBX27UH for $7400, but I don't have as good an impression of Lennox heat pumps from what I read on the web. So I'm learning towards the above Carrier quote at this point.

thanks.

what size system are you replacing? what size heat strip do you have now?

for your location, I would not purchase a new system that does not have
electronic demand defrost.

there are three equally important components-quality HVAC, the install by dealer, and probably the most overlooked and disregarded is the ductwork system.

these are my minimum specs for a new HP system. both outside and
inside units should be replaced to have a properly matched system.

15 SEER, 12.5+ EER, 9 HSPF
best matching VS air handler
full BTUs in both cooling and heating for your rated size
R-410a refrigerant(same as Puron)
scroll compressor preferred
electronic demand defrost preferred
thermostat with "dehumidify on demand" feature
staged backup heat strips
new and correctly sized refrigerant lineset
10 yr warranty compressor and parts

you want a thorough inspection of your ductwork system. size, overall condition, supply and return lines, insulation qualities, leak test, etc.
any hot/cold spot issues in your home should be addressed.

I would only use authorized dealers for the various brands that provide quotes. see mfg websites.

I would look at Trane/AmStd,Rheem/Rudd,Carrier/Bryant.

I would not purchase a new HP system that did not have electronic demand defrost.

IMO

You need to get model numbers for all your equipment regardless of what brand you buy. There is no reason for the contractor not to do this.

If you do go with the Carrier equipment, then insist on a Carrier thermostat.

Do you really need an electronic air cleaner. A 4 inch media filter is less money, requires little maintenance, and can be very effective.

Is your electrical entrance 200-amp?

Have you considered dual energy with Hydro-Québec's (DT) bi-energy rate?

Have you considered GazMétro's sizable incentives?

Have you been advised of the pending federal subsidies under the ecoENERGY plan and how to proceed accordingly?

Frankly, the prices seem very low for our region. There's a lot more than just price; I would be suspicious...

IMPO

SR

Some answers to the replies so far:
-Winters here can range from 0C to -25C. (13F to -13F). So the furnace will definitely kick in regularly
-my current 20 yr old RHEEM is 2.5 Ton. My current furnace is 20KW. It was explained to me by two reps that the calculation of capacity is done differently now, using guidelines of 800 sqft instead of 600 sq ft as in the past, so 2.5 Ton would be considered oversized now.
-I currently have an EAF, but since the furnace package also includes a new air filter in both cases, I'm thinking of changing it out
-I have 200 AMP
-I will not consider dual energy. Gaz Met does not serve my street, and I will not go to oil since don't want an oil tank in the house.
-Who knows when the Federal program will kick in again? So far it's expired....So I'm not considering it until the fat cats in Ottawa move their butts.
-Agree the Whirlpool quote is very low. The Carrier quote however is almost the same as another company, which quoted $100 above that.
-The Lennox quote from Costco was $7400 (includes a current coupon special for $400 off this month). A competing quote for the same equipment was $8100.
-Except for the Whirlpool and Trane, the quotes from 4 companies range from $7400 - $8100. Trane was $10k, but this is out of my budget.
-I was told that Rheem/Rudd is not offered by the companies I contacted, because their warranty is guaranteed by a 3rd party, and not the manufacturer. I have not been offered AmStd, Bryant or York by any company. The latter 2 don't seem to be common in my area, have never seen them.

Thank you, and I'll come back with the model numbers soon.

Make sure it has a 10 year labor warranty. Thats a very good deal.

I've emailed the company, asking for the outstanding model numbers. No response so far. Is everyone on vacation these days?

Does anyone have an opinion on whether the Lennox Elite XP4 / CBX27UH is equivalent to the Carrier Performance model?

I asked about variable speed and was told the Performance is single speed only.

Can someone explain what is meant by staged heat strip? The rep did not understand the question.

Gosh there is a heat wave going on...

I can't find any information on the air handler you listed. I think it is a single speed Base series model. I did find the product data for the FY4CNF series fan coil. Check your model number. I think you are missing a character.

According to the Carrier document, the last three zeroes (000) of the model number indicate there is no factory installed heater. Is the heat strip external? Staged means that the 15KW heat strip turns on in 5KW increments. I am not sure if the Edge thermostat has that capability.

I don't want to misinform you about the heat pump. Tigerdunes can give you better guidance on this.

You should insist on all model numbers and verify it is an AHRI match.

I will assume the HP condenser is Carrier's Performance 15.

It should be paired with Carrier's var speed air handler-FV mdl.

You do want staged heat strip as mentioned above including the Edge thermostat.

Refer back to my original post. I would not have a new HP system without demand defrost which this system does not have.

iMO

Usually, these 'strips' come in separate sections. They can be wired together to turn on all together, or wired separately to turn on in 'stages' by the thermostat, depending on how cold a day it is. The 15kw you are speaking of might be available as 5/10 or 7.5/7.5. This saves you money on those days when you don't need the full blast from the 'furnace', only a bit extra.

This 'staging' is similar to staging of the compressor, where the compressor can run as Medium and High.

-The 2.5 ton performance quote is confirmed to be the 25HPA6, 2-stage compressor it is SEER 15. Tigerdunes, is this what you mean by Carrier Performance 15?

-the furnace is the 15Kw FV4. Rep confirmed that it heats up in increments, as needed.
Also, specs state it has a variable speed fan. Tigerdunes, I think this matches what you posted.

I had just decided to go for this Carrier, but I now understand what is meant by demand defrost and it seems extremely desirable. But if this model does not support it, is it possible for Carrier to update it only with this feature? If not, I would have to start at square one for another alternative.

Carrier Infinity or Trane are out of my budget.

I had decided against Lennox XP14, however it looks like it has demand defrost.

Rheem/Rudd/AmericanStd/York have not been offered by any of the 5 companies I contacted so far, although I could find York by going to other companies I'm sure.

Was told Rheem/Rudd warranty is guaranteed by a 3rd party, so will not go there. Bryant/AmericanStd have not been offered at all.

Ask quoting dealer to provide you the AHRI HP Directory matching number on system he intends to provide. I will be glad to look it up for you. Post this before you sign any papers. Frankly, your dealer is not being honest.That would be enough to make me run, not just walk away.

To be Clear the single stage Performance 15 HP condenser is available in 1/2 ton sizes. No electronic demand defrost though on Carrier.

Sorry, something just not right here.

IMO

I decided against Carrier since I would like demand defrost. Further, Carrier Canada informed me the 25HPA6 is not available in Canada. I've given up on this HVAC company, too much wrong information.

I'm now looking at Rheem, based on comments from this forum that it is good quality equipment.

RPQL-030JAZ
Classic Series
2.5T, 15 SEER
10 yr parts
1 yr labour, additional 4 yrs available at $230
Scroll compressor
New piping for the R410A
White Rogers Thermostat, waiting for the mdl number.
$4500

I also asked about the matching furnace, and was discouraged from doing so, as the rep claimed it was not needed. Actually, several contractors told me it was not necessary, as my existing furnace is functional and can be modified. So,
I've now decided not to change my existing furnace. The contractor will modify my existing furnace to accomodate the indoor coil. My existing ductwork can be re-used.

This dealer does not sell the JEZ series.

Thanks.

Something still not right here.

When you say furnace, I assume you are speaking of your inside air handler.

You will not have a matched system unless you replace both outside condenser and inside air handler.

If you don't do both, then just a big mistake you will regret.

And I would want the JEZ type RPQL.

What size heat step? I suppose none if you still plan on keeping existing inside unit.

Good HVAC but you would be crippling its performance if you keep existing air handler.

Post back.

IMO

I admit I have not done any calculations to confirm my theory, but I will attempt to do so shortly. Have been out of town last week.
My current furnace is a 20KW model, which does heat up in increments.

The thermostat quoted is the White Rodgers IF70.

SR

I found a dealer that carries the JEZ line, and I think it's a pretty good offer so I'm going for the matching air handler (and will postpone my new car until next spring :-))

Rheem RPQL 030JEZ
RHLL-HM3617
Programmable Emerson thermostat 1F98-EZ 1441

Includes all installation including new piping.

Sounds ok?

A very nice HP system.

Has electronic demand defrost.

New refrigerant lineset included?

What size heat strip to be installed? If 15 KW, then you want this staged in 5 KW or 7.5 KW increments.

Here are the numbers.

3393439 Active Systems RHEEM RPQL SERIES RHEEM MANUFACTURING COMPANY RPQL-030JEZ � RHLL-HM3617+RCSL-H*3617 � 30000 13.00 15.50 29000 9.00
18300

IMO

The system provides 18 KW heat, staged in 6 kw increments.
New lineset was included, and he threw in an outdoor sensor so I can see the outdoor temperature in the comfort of my home :-)

Thanks to everyone on the forum, your comments and suggestions really helped.

Tigerdunes, I appreciate your comments and patience with the various options I presented.

Merry Christmas and best to all in the Gardenweb community.

You have a very nice system which you should notice quickly as far as improved comfort over old system.

After several weeks, it would be appreciated if you pst back about your initial impressions.

I really think 18 KW heat strips staged or not is way too much. However, if they are staged, you should be OK. Just for info, 18 KW is about 57 KBTUs.

Congrats again.

TD

1/ when the airhandler is blowing, it is quite a bit louder than my previous system and i can hear it quite noticeably through the ducts on the floor. The installer suggested he could decrease the speed of the fan to make it quieter. I havn't had him come in yet. Does his suggestion make sense?

2/With my old system, I had the habit of keeping the fan on all the time and felt it was very comfortable. The installer suggested I keep the fan on auto, instead of on. I've been doing this, but feel that the heating is not quite even, i.e. between the warm air, I feel cooler periods. What is the recommended setting for the fan? There is also a "circulate" setting. I'm not sure why I wouldn't want keep the fan on continuously unless there is a risk of wearing out the fan part prematurely.

The heat pump is a bit louder than I thought it would be; but it is much quieter than the one it replaced. So overall it's fine.

You are certain old system was a 2 1/2 ton system or was it a 2 ton system?

The symptoms you describe are typically ductwork related. Dealer should be called back and evaluate what if anything can be done to ductwork.

Also, I would reduce the CFM setting on air handler to 350-400 CFMs/ton.

There is nothing wrong on running system in recirculate. Try it. The cost is inconsequential since you have a high eff blower motor.

Post back and let us know what adjustments installers suggest and make.

IMO