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acdecision

Help with Trane AC proposal

ACdecision
10 years ago

Thanks in advance for the help.
My house is located in Dallas Texas. It is a 2 story with living space total of 2916 sqft. The floor plan/map is attached above. It has 2 rooms( living room and entrance) with high ceilings. The plan of the house is very open with air being shared between the first and second floors(see the map attached).Currently I have Lennox builders 13 SEER 2004 model systems, 4 ton for first floor and 2 ton for the second floor. I have decent attic insulation 13 inch of fibreglass and I plan to add more inches of cellulose on top. I have installed radiant barrier foil under the rafters and plan to seal most of the holes in the attic floor with foam. I will seal only the big holes and not the whole floor(DIY proect). I also have installed solar screens on all windows. The AC that need replacement is the one on the second floor(2 ton) and I have gotten some quotes. With the current system, when it was working I am not sure whether it was adequate or not so it like I am starting from scratch with load calculations. I have had some contractors come and gave quotes, some did load calculations and others did not(almost fly by night contractors). Those who have done load calculations say I am currently undersized so I need a 3 ton. Here are some quotations:

1. TRANE XR 17
Condenser: 4TTR7036A1000A
Coil : 4TXCC005CC3HCB
Furnace : TUD2C080A9V4VB
This also includes supply and return plenum, drain pan,float switch, gas flex, gas stop,mastic seal, Rex Rack 4 inch(filter size 20x20x4), filter drier,disconnect box,N/S dumpers, grills, T-Stat Focus, 9 supply registers.

warranty: heat exchanger-lifetime
10/10/10 on compressor/parts/labor and 1 year maintenance agreement.
This guy measured every room ,he spent 2 hours at my house working on this and answering questions.

Total Price: 6500 cash price after some discounts and tax credit

2. TRANE XR 16 3 ton( SAME GUY AS ABOVE)
Condenser: 4TTR6036B1000A
Coil: 4TXCB004CC3HCB
Furnace: TUD1C080A9H41B
This also includes supply and return plenum, drain pan,float switch, gas flex, gas stop,mastic seal, Rex Rack 4 inch(filter size 20x20x4), filter drier,disconnect box,N/S dumpers, grills, T-Stat Focus, 9 supply registers.

warranty: heat exchanger-lifetime
10/10/10 on compressor/parts/labor and 1 year maintenance agreement.
This guy measured every room ,he spent 2 hours at my house working on this and answering questions.

TOTAL PRICE 5283
This guy pointed out that when my first floor needs replacement it is better to go with a 3 ton rather than a 4 ton currently installed as there is air sharing and 6 ton is adequate for my house. There is just bad air movement configurations, which I tend to agree with.

3.Different contractor
4TTR6036A1000A -Condenser
4TXCB036BC3HCA- Coil
and TUDB080A9V3VB-Furnace
TCONT802AS32DA-thermostat
1-plenum
flush linesets
1-2 inch filter box
1 eletrical disconnect box
1 year labor warranty
Total price $6200

Here are my questions

a. looking at my numbers as shown in the attached map, does it make sense to go with a 3 ton system?Contractor 1 did suggest increasing some ducts @350 a pop
b. Are these systems properly matched?
c. I really like the 10 year labor warranty offered by the first contractor. but is it really worth it to go with XR 17? I was hoping to get something like the third combination, but with the first contractor hoping that the numbers will fall inbetween $6500 and 5283, but with the benefit of two stage systems.
c. Are the thermostats in these quotes a match for humidity control?
d. I want a system that is cost efficient, performs well and is effective, looking at these prices I think they are fair not sure if they are the best. I would have liked an XR15 condenser and XV80, tough luck Trane no longer has XR15 condenser.I was hoping this will be cheaper and will do the job.

Thank you for your help. It is greatly appreciated

Comments (6)

  • ryanhughes
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It's hard to say whether 3 ton is adequate simply by looking at the floor plan, but I like the fact that the contractor is not quick to oversize as many are. Oversized systems do not provide the comfort or efficiency you are looking for. If they did the calculations to determine that 3 tons is adequate, then I would certainly not hesitate to downsize. Many homes have undersized ductwork to begin with, so if you had a 4 ton system to begin with, going with a 3 ton would help allow for more even air distribution. Longer run cycles are better for the equipment and your comfort.

    Looks like (3) is also quoting the 2-stage XR16 model, which is essentially equivalent to the newer labeled XR17. Option (2) from your first contractor is for the single stage XR16 model, which replaced the XR15 and again, is essentially equivalent mechanically speaking. The new naming simply better reflects some of the SEER rating capabilities some matchups are able to achieve, but does create some confusion.

    I do recommend the 2-stage condenser (previous XR16 model -- confirm with dealer you are getting the 2-stage "A" model and not the newer single stage "B" model -or- XR17), as well as the XV80 furnace for the variable speed blower (which when set up properly assists with airflow on restrictive duct systems and has dehumidification features). You wouldn't be disappointed with this system properly sized and installed. The XR16 (single stage) is also a very nice unit, but 2-stage does give better comfort. You'll have to decide if it's worth it to you. Proper installation of either system you select is the most important thing to consider.

    What is the first dealer doing about the existing linesets? Both dealers checked to ensure proper size of existing?

    If either has done a true Manual J load calculation, I would not be surprised if the 60k btu XV95 furnace with 3 ton blower was all your home required.

  • ACdecision
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ryanhughes,

    Thank for your reply. Just to clarify, the AC being replaced is a 2 ton system. The contractor is recommending 3 ton. This is for my upstairs floor. The total AC tonnage for the house is 6 tons and it is currently distributed as 4 tons for first floor and 2 tons for the second floor. The contractor is recommending to go 3 tons on the first as well as on the second floor for a total of 6 tons.

    For linesets both dealers are going to flush and use the old linesets. They said $200 for new ones,but it is not necessary.

  • ryanhughes
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sorry for my earlier confusion. OK. While I am not there to see your home and spec the system... I do not see your first floor needing 3 tons. With 1100 sqft and an open floor plan as you describe, the 80k furnace sounds even more oversized, for downstairs as well. I suspect your downstairs system is likely oversized as well. An accurate Manual J would determine this. Are all dealers saying 3 tons for upstairs? If so, I'd definitely want the 2-stage model. Also, just to clarify, are you replacing the downstairs system as well?

    $200 for a new lineset is a reasonable price and I would go for it, but that is up to you. The new one should be the proper size per the manufacturer specs (or the old one must be). With new copper, you don't have to worry about any contamination from the previous system due to poor installation practices and system condition affecting your new system. But, replacing isn't always feasible, so yes, flushing is often acceptable and enough when done correctly.

    This post was edited by ryanhughes on Sat, Jul 13, 13 at 9:31

  • ACdecision
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ryanhughes,

    Thanks again for your response. Both these dealers are saying 3 tons. I have had other dealers who said 3 tons is an overkill and recommended 2.5 tons but they did not do load calculations. I am not planning on changing the downstairs system at the moment, it is working fine.
    I am definitely leaning towards 2 stage systems

  • ryanhughes
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would tend to think 2.5 tons myself, if not 2 tons, without doing an accurate load calculation. 2-stage systems do come only in full ton sizes. So a 3 ton 2-stage scroll system will provide about 2.5 tons on low stage. Trane does have the XL20i system that provides 50% capacity on low stage (2 compressors).

    Problem with oversized 2-stage systems is you will not see the long runtimes in low, which is the main comfort advantage.

    This post was edited by ryanhughes on Sat, Jul 13, 13 at 20:29

  • ryanhughes
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What have the dealers said about your ductwork? If system capacity is increased, supply/return ducts must also be enlarged to handle the air volume. Many homes already have undersized duct systems, and installing larger equipment without fixing the ductwork only creates further problems while compounding others.

    This post was edited by ryanhughes on Sun, Jul 14, 13 at 13:46