I will weigh in on the geothermal option. However, since you plan on staying only another 5-years it may not be the best decision but your situation might have some things going for it, the well and the gas furnace.

I would perhaps keep the Carrier gas furnace and install an open loop âÂÂsplitâ geothermal HP if your well can support it and you have a way of responsibly disposing of the return water, preferably back to the same aquifer. If your gas furnace has a single speed blower I might only install a single speed GSHP. You will basically be using your gas furnace as a backup and for its blower. You will use little to no propane for heating and have about the highest efficiency possible - if your well is not too deep. If it is deep, then well pumping energy reduces overall efficiency.

Is the 80-gallon tank a buffer tank for DHW? It seems rather large.

If the gas furnace is in good shape this option might cost a whole lot less than $24k. The biggest material expenses would be a well pump and the âÂÂsplitâ GSHP that would cost less than a mono-block GSHP, as you would not need the blower. The rest of the expense would likely be mostly labor. I wouldnâÂÂt necessarily go for a fancy T-stat either; a simple set it and forget it T-stat would do just fine.

IâÂÂm not saying this is the option you should choose but if you do this is how it might be done efficiently and for less money.

The big question marks are the quality of the water, what to do about the return water and the capacity of your well. You donâÂÂt want to be in a situation where your neighbor, who has never had water problems, suddenly has no water because youâÂÂre pumping over 10,000 gallons a day out of the aquifer!

SR

What is your cost of propane and electric?

Do you use propane for any other use than fuel for furnace?

Tell us about your furnace. Model, high eff or conventional 80% eff, var speed blower or standard PSC?

Since you don't plan on living in this home more than five years, I would forget geothermal and install a good 13 SEER heat pump condenser with matching evap coil and keep existing furnace. Of course you will need a heat pump thermostat with outdoor sensor.

Post back.

IMO

This post was edited by tigerdunes on Fri, Jun 28, 13 at 8:03

To: Tigerdunes -
1)Cost of Propane is $3600/yr and Electric is currently $1680/yr wo AC. W/ AC is is $2280yr
2))Propane is also used for 80 Gallon Conventional Storage Water Heater , and for heated (radiant) bathroom floor in master bath
3) Furnace is Carrier, was new in 1997, not sure which model - it was id range to top of the line in 1997. .Let's assume it is conventional 80% eff,
4) Another factor is noise - with my previous AC (15 Seer) my renters downstairs hated it and moved out soon after. I can move the outdoor unit, where noise should not be a factor, and go with 13 SEER HP, or I can try to get a quieter unit(though I am told my (now broken) AC was one of the quieter ones.
Heat Pump Bids are for:
Trane 4 ton XR15 at $8000 $8000
Lennox 4Ton XP14 Elite series $6895
Carrier Model 4 ton 25HBC5 $6280
(bid says Performance Series but this model is actually listed as Comfort Series).

The Trane Dealer got the best reviews. The other two HP came form a dealer that got mediocre to poor reviews.

Are these good Prices? If were staying longer, would your recommendations be much different?

TO: fsq4cw: Thanks for the detailed reply. I don't really know how long I will be this home so guessed 5 years.. Our well is, I believe, 80 feet deep and sits about 1/4 mile above the home site. You mentioned the "quality" of the water - not sure what you meant, but we do have very hard water (Iron, and other deposits).

General Info: Our home is 5000 square feet , but the finished basement accounts for 1900 of that, and is much cooler than rest of house. There is some volcanic rock out here, so Geothermal costs may go up, due to difficulty with trench. Also, our Septic field lies in our back yard, so not sure where Geothermal Trenches would go - they might end up 70-150 feet from utility room.

An aside - If I were staying indefinitely, I would also look at other options for generating electricity for this 40 acre property, including:
1) Windmill: since we are situated up on a bluff over looking river, there is a constant breeze (meets standards for wind power)
2) Solar (south facing home)
3) Hydroelectric - have a three season creek so not sure how well this would work.

RIght now, I am leaning towards Heat pump, and chinking log home and over next few years to improve efficiency.
.

Rates please for propane cost/gal and electric cost/KWH, not yearly cost.

Your add on prices for HP condensers and I assume matching coils are absurd.

Stay with good 13 SEER HP with matching coil. You will require HP thermostat and outdoor sensor.

IMO

Thanks Tigerdunes:
Electricity use is as follows:
First 1,000 kWh 6.778 â per kWh
Over 1,000 kWh 7.500 â per kWh
( I use about 800 kwh without AC and 1300 Kwh with it)

Propane: 2.69per gallon - usage in winter used to be approx 350-400 gallons per month!

I agree that the mark ups for the Heat Pumps condensor are outrageous. The cheapest price I was quoted was $5310 for a Trane XB14 unit, or $5225 for RUUD.

I started shopping in May, have had 4 contractors out here, and still see major issues with each contractor. The one I like the best is from Sky Heating, as he was the most thorough, and company got the best reviews. He had the lowest prices as well, but they are still about 3 times the wholesale cost.

I have the money to pay for the more expensive systems, but I just can't find a good reason to do that. won't, on principle, as I feel they are purposefully marking them up. This kind of stuff happens to everyone, but seems to happen a bit more to single women ?!? (kind of a sexist comment, but I have noticed this to be true).
Back to the subject at hand - I looked at QualitySmith.com for nationwide averages for installation on various Trane Heat Pumps - I compared it to the bids I received:

Trane Installation costs (range nationwide)

XR15:Install cost $4500-$10,000 (quote= $8100)
XB14 Install cost = $3000-$7500 (qutoe was $5300)
XB13 install cost =$2500-$6500 (quote was $6400)

I noticed in another post that you were recommending a SEER 13 unit, but did not like the Trane XB13 (SEER 14-15) but not the Trane units. You specifically wrote that wrote that you would not get a Trane XB13. I was wondering if you liked any of the Trane models that I have listed?

What Brands/models do you like that are SEER 13?

Any suggestions for how to find a more competitive bid? I tried Bargaining with one contractor, and I could tell he was completely resistant to it- giving me less information each time I contacted him; strong arming me to come back and meet with me again, etc.

Here are some other Brands I received bids for - they also seemed a bit high but are cheaper than others:
: Carrier 25HBC5 Comfort - SEER 14.5 FOR $6289_
York YHJFLX series SEER 14.5 for $5869.00
RUUD 4 ton Achiever SEER 14.5 $5225

I would like to pay less than $5000 but that has not been possible.
With 5000 Square foot home, and the logs not chinked, I don't envy the contractors for trying to decide what would work best. A two zone system is preferred in houses like this but the cost to retrofit is exorbitant.

Desperately confused in Oregon!
Thanks again

It is a waste of money going higher than a 13 SEER HP as long as you plan on using existing conventional non var speed furnace. The reason is you can't achieve the higher SEER with 14+ SEER condensers using conventional furnaces. And BTW, you must know the blower rating on existing furnace.

If looking at Trane, the XR13 would be a good choice.

If interested in RUDD 0r Rheem, I can give you a comparable model.

IMO