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bwze_gw

To zone or not to zone...

bwze
10 years ago

Hey folks, looking for general opinions or suggestions surrounding the following matter. I live in a 2000 sqft home with a room over my garage and bathroom upstairs. When my home was built these rooms were not included with the downstairs HVAC system but instead a through the wall AC was put in place to help cool and heat the area. Only problem is that the AC was installed with the condensor portion of the AC in the attic...which is not the best of situations. Of course, this room is notoriously hard to keep cool in the summer and I've researched this topic and found that it is primarily due to the affect of hot attic temperatures against the exposed insulation of the knee walls, along with other issues. I have taken the steps to install foil based poly-iso on the backsides of my knee walls, sealed around the insulation that is exposed below the roof vents and made sure that the access doors are properly sealed. This has helped somewhat, but the fact that the AC struggles to exchange hot air with even hotter attic air is like beating a dead horse, and putting my AC to an early death with the extreme pressures involved. All of this made no differnce in the past, however, because I rarely used the room. Now, it is my everyday office and I need a solution that is both feasible and logical. Hence, I've been led to the discussion of zoning or installing a second system. Currently, my home has a 2.5 ton heat pump installed for downstairs and that works flawlessly....well almost flawlessly. Anyway, it's a split system with the condensor outside and an air handler/evaporator under the house along with all of the duct work. I've never really like the idea of the air handler being under the house since it's so difficult to access, so I'm considering moving it to the attic and re-plumbing all of the supply and returns into the ceiling of the downstairs. At the same time, this would give me the opportunity to install a return and supply ducts to my room over and the bathroom essentially killing the need for the throught the wall AC but requiring that I install a zoning sytem in the process. So that begs the question....should I do this and essentially kill two birds with one stone, gaining access to the evaporator/air handler via the attic and tying in my unconditioned rooms, or should I poo poo this idea and install a separate smaller split system for just the upstairs. I've considered going the mini split ductless system route upstairs, but with two separate rooms I'm not sure that this would cool and heat sufficiently. Thoughts?

Comments (6)

  • klem1
    10 years ago

    If cost effective is a consideration,I would go for a mini-split now and deferr any change to the downstairs system until it requires replacement or major expense for repair. If cost is not a factor,new is always better and more dependable,so changing out downstairs would be a go but I would still use a mini-split for the office. A ceiling heat lamp will be suffecent in cold weather and a small through wall fan can be added if bath isn't cool enough in hot weather. Zoning is something 85% of technicians don't fully understand. Having a zoned system leads to technicians wasting time trying to deal with it every time they are doing any thing to system from now on.

  • energy_rater_la
    10 years ago

    moving air handler from crawlspace to attic is a big undertaking.

    hotter in the attic, dirtier in the crawlspace.

    moving units is always a pita & to replace
    all ducts...that is a big job, with a hefty cost.
    you posted that the unit as is operates almost
    flawlessly...kinda hate to mess with that!

    you don't know that once you take ducts out of
    cool crawlspace & put them into the hot
    attic that you'll have the same performance
    as before. and its doubtful...given the extreme
    heat in the attic.

    is there anyway to put ducts into the conditioned space
    by building furdowns? that would be ideal, but
    depends upon layout of the house as to if it
    can be done or not.
    can you locate the ahu in a central closet inside
    the conditoined space? the r/a would be at the
    bottom of the closet.

    kudos for putting the sheathing on the walls of the
    room above the garage. did you diy it, or hire it out?

    mini split would be faster and probably cheaper than
    moving equipment & ducts.

    its a tough call...if you could put it all inside the
    living/conditioned space instead of the attic...
    it would be worth the extra cost because of
    energy savings.
    personally...I think I'd look at that option over
    putting system & ducts in attic.but layout of
    house is what will determine if you can
    do this.

    best of luck.

  • ionized_gw
    10 years ago

    If the office space is going to be used while the rest of the house is not occupied, I think that a mini split is a good thing to do. Why condition the whole house for use of the office only?

    You can install a mini spit ducted air handler and run ducts to two rooms. They will probably cost more and are not as efficient as the high wall units. The question is, do you have a place to put it inside of the house envelope?

    I have mini splits with seven indoor units. I wrung my hands over whether I would miss having the ducted system running to the baths. I am in a predominantly cooling environment, Gulf of Mexico coast. I don't miss the cooling in there in hot weather. It is a bit cool in cold weather.

  • bwze
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thanks for suggestions folks....

    klem1, I agree that it seems that a lot of techs do not truly understand a zoned system.

    energy rater la, thanks for your words of wisdom. I guess I could install fur downs (didn't even know what a fur down was...had to Google it), but it seems like it would be quite a hassle. I do have a place I could move the ahu to, inside the house envelope. It'd require me to purchase a new ahu however since my current one is not designed for a vertical application (needed for the space I've got). As far as installing the polyiso, I did that myself...man what a pita!

    ionized, would you happen to have a link to a mini split ducted air handler somewhere online? You mentioned that you have mini splits with seven indoor units (that must be one heck of a big house you have there). Did you get the ceiling mounted condensers or the ones that mount on the wall? Also, how do you like this option?

  • ionized_gw
    10 years ago

    If you do a search on mini split (mini split, mini-split) and Sanyo or Mitsubishi, you will easily find info about alternatives to high wall mounted equipment. I have 2000 sq feet near New Orleans so it is hot and humid here. I have seven rooms with one unit, 6K or 9K, per room. I have high wall, but I wish I had put a ceiling recessed in the smallest room (dining room) and it is obtrusive in there. All of the associated plumbing and cables are run in the stud space and under the house rather then trough exterior walls. All but one are mounted on interior walls.

    I like the way my system works for the most part. I would not go back to ducts. There are a couple of drawbacks. I can not do a true set-back with the remotes, only a timed start/stop. Can't do a hard-wired t-stat either. For the heating season, I would like a real set-back. We don't do much heat here so it is not such a big deal. I believe both of these things have been changed for Mitsubishi high wall and you always had those options for ceiling recessed and ceiling hidden.

    One thing that came out of the sun that I should have thought of is that maintenance is more time-consuming. I have to keep seven filters clean rather than swapping out one dispo filter now and again. It is not a big deal though.

    In heating season they high-wall units turn into good ceiling heaters in the default programming. The blower slows way down as they approach set point. A ceiling fan or setting the air handler manually to a higher speed fixes it. Keep in mind that I have an open crawlspace and a poorly-insulated house that I am working on.

    Some of the benefit is lifestyle-related. It is just my wife and I so we just condition the rooms that we are in. I like the way it throttles back. Humidity control is great.

    It is easy to run parts of the system on portable generators. At low speed inverter-driven motors are very efficient compared to other types of variable speed. I think that the start-up surge is way less too. I was running two outdoor units with one indoor unit each plus a refrig and chest freezer and a couple of lights on a Rigid Rd6800 genset. I went for a couple of days and I was considering trying to add an additional indoor unit to see if it sagged, but the power came back on.

  • bwze
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Sounds awesome ionized....I'm definitely going to look into these. Thanks so much....