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Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

Posted by nms21 (My Page) on
Mon, Jun 18, 12 at 15:05

We�ve got following quotes for new furnace and ac. Existing system is abt. 20 yrs old York (ac 5ton 10 seer or so and 100000btu single stage furnace). Evaporator coil has major water leak and replacing it would cost some where near $1600-1700. All contractors said it can be repaired but of the opinion that since it is very old system its better to have newer more efficient system be installed. So got quotes now for different systems and bit confused which one to choose ( guess more options more confusion).
House is 3000SF two story. All HE system quotes qualifies for 700-900 reabte from state of NJ.
Also wanted to know why HVAC contractors offers only one brand?
I�d really appreciate all experts� help here to narrow down the choice.
A) Goodman GMVC95 HE, Variable speed furnace 95% AFUE, Goodman DSXC18 upto 18 seer AC.
$10350.00
B) Trane XV 95 120K BTU 95% AND Trane XR15 15 seer 5 ton ac. $11895.00
C) Rheem Prestige Series: 80% AFUE 2-Stage ECM Motor and 13 seer 5 ton AC. $8200
D) Carrier Infinity 2 stage variable speed furnace and 4 ton 16 seer AC.
$12500.00. Also this guy offers whole energy package which includes new bradford 40 gal water heater, sealing the attic to remove the draft in order to qualify us for state of NJ 10k 0% finance for 10 yrs. Looking at other quotes his price seems reasonable with extras he offers.

Please help us out to make right decision.

Thanks in advance.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

Did any of these contractors to a heating and cooling load calculation? I doubt you need 5 tons of cooling and 100K BTU of heating.

I would avoid the Goodman equipment. You can search on this forum for the complaints about Goodman.

The Trane furnace is very oversized. Get a quote for a 95% AFUE Rheem furnace.

The Carrier Infinity equipment is very good. Does this price include the Carrier rebate? It is does, it seems over priced. These NJ energy packages might seem attractive, but I think you are paying higher prices in order to subsidize it.

Where in NJ are you located?


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

hi mike_home,

Thanks for your prompt reply. Yes, one of them did load calculations, some just did measurement of house and told us they've been doing these for years and don't need to do that..We don't like Goodman either. Carrier option does include rebate and yes, that's why we need some opinions as it seems bit pricier..

i'm close to cherry hill ..


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

NMS

I would scratch the Goodman quote.

On the Trane, dealer has quoted 120K furnace. You don't need that large size. The 100 K model would be just fine. Also ask dealer if the XR15 condenser is two stg in the 5 ton size.

Nothing wrong with the Rheem brand but dealer should quote you a 95% eff model with a 15 SEER condenser.

You don't provide mdl numbers on the Carrier but it isva great system with a frisky price.

You are getting different sizes both heat and cool. I believe the 100 K furnace size is about right but I would insist on knowing the cooling load whether 4 or 5 ton size is called for.

IMO


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

ok..thanks tigerdunes..will ask for rheem 95% furnace quote..what do you think abt. carrier one?


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

Nms

Post back with all mdl numbers/size of furnace, condenser, evap coil, and all related accessories included.

New lineset, filter box, Infinity control, any ductwork modifications, etc?

IMO


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

hi tigerdunes,

i'm sorry but the model nos of carrier are not readable in quote. but it is for the system which gives you 1100.00 in rebate if that helps.. furnace is 100k and ac is 4ton.
no new ductkwork, infinity control, newlineset(copper line, new outside switch box.etc is included.) as said he offers new bradford 40 gal gas heater also.10 yrs parts and lobor included also 2 yrs maintenance. quote is for 13500.00 excluding carrier rebate. but does it cost extra 2500-3000 to seal attic? that is his selling point. and if i look at the whole deal carrier looks appealing..what say?? thanks..


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

Nms

Where will new furnace be located?

What is prompting your question about sealing the attic?

If you were not already aware of it, new install HVAC can be mighty expensive in NJ, a state with taxes gone extreme.

IMO


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

I think NMS is trying to qualify for the NJ Clean Energy program. Another poster for NJ brought this up recently.

The catch is you are paying $3000 to seal your attic. I have no experince with this, but it sounds like a lot of money. I don't understand where the funds for this program are derived. Somebody has the cover the cost of the free hot water heater and the 10 year financing.

Most likely it is my NJ tax dollars. :(


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

hi tigerdunes and mike_home,

Thanks for your input. mike_home you're right that i'm trying here to justify my decission as to spend that EXTRA money towards new water heater and attic sealing. Yes, i'll end up spending almost 4500 more if i go with RHEEM option which is 8200 and may be little more for RHEEM 95% variable speed ecm motor furnace.

tigerdunes, furnace will replace exisitng one in basement. And i find it very strange that none of this contractor bothered to call back after giving quote. Guess not interested in 8-10k business..

if you guys want to add anything else please do so..


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

Nms

Again where will furnace be located?

Until you reply , I don't make a connection between the NJ program you want to qualify for and the extraordinarily expensive attic sealing.

IMO


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

tigerdunes, guess you missed that in earlier post..i said that newer one will replace the existing one in center of BASEMENT..


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

Then what the hecK is the attic sealing all about? I don't understand. Pls explain.

wdc


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

Ok..here's the explanation.. in NJ there's something called NJ clean energy program. pl.visit this for more info. (http://www.njcleanenergy.com/residential/programs/home-performance-energy-star/benefits-and-incentives).Under this program Enhanced incentives are available based on the home's estimated total energy savings (TES), as a result of energy efficient measures installed. there's break down the incentives offered by the program and requirements for eligible measures.

Now if i want to take advantage of this program i've to go with certain type of system and attic sealing etc. Program is hard to ignore because of 10k of loan with 0% for 10yrs.

The confusion is does 12500 price(for carrier system) after rebate and all that make sense? I'll end up getting new water heater and attic sealing. and yes, my out of pocket expense is only 3500 of which 1100 will get back from carrier in form of rebate.

hope i've made myself clear now..any thoughts????


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

What Carrier Infinity furnace and AC are you being quoted? Does this include the 10 year labor warranty, and 4 inch media filter? Any duct work being done?

I think a price of $13,600 before the Carrier $1100 rebate is high. Get a quote from another Carrier dealer to confirm my thinking.


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

well, mike_home: got quotes from two other carrier dealers but their prices are also 11k+ for just system NOt energy package..so in big confusion as to go with nj clean energy program or not..:(


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

Hey, I'm also 'near' Cherry Hill and can't imagine a 3000 SF home (anywhere) in NJ needing 5 tons, nor 100K+ BTUs for heat.

My 2500 SF home, about the same age as yours, had a 125K furnace (way oversized). Replaced with a modulating furnace 90K (oversized for A/C) which mostly coasts at lower stage. Heat loss of home is 60,000 BTU.

Did your Carrier contractor 'include' duct cleaning? Name begin with an H?

V


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

nms

"The confusion is does 12500 price(for carrier system) after rebate and all that make sense? I'll end up getting new water heater and attic sealing. and yes, my out of pocket expense is only 3500 of which 1100 will get back from carrier in form of rebate."

So do I understand that by participating in this program, your net out of pocket cost for the Carrier System, new HW heater, and attic sealing is only $2400?

If this is the case, then what are you waiting on?

IMO


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

Who is supplying the financing at zero percent interest? Do you need a new hot water heater?

I n my opinion the numbers suggest you are paying for everything you are getting. It feels like a good deal because you are putting a small amount of money up front. You can also get financing through Carrier if this is important to you.


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

mike_home financing is thru' some affiliated nj clean energy firm..i don't need new water heater but to qualify you've to go with whole energy package..and guess make sense to go with carrier as end getting some extras at almost same cost..i know i'm paying for it and yes financing is major factor..

Thanks guys for you valuable input..really appreciate it..


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

Hi. I'm in the same dilemma. I was told we need new water heater because once the house is more tightly sealed it needs the power vent on the water heater to vent properly up the exhaust. Not sure if that is true. In my case i need it to meet the savings because my old furnace was 90 eff so I need to become MORE eff than most people.

Chances are you don't need the infinity system. I was quoted about 1500 higher for it, plus the carrier controller for another 500 or so, so even after rebate it was cheaper to go 16 seer ac and 96 eff gas...not sure if you considered that. My Attic and hot water seem high priced as well. Looking at my lowest option being 2500 or so after rebates, 3000 if I go tankless water heater.

Are we allowed to name names? I have one from H, big name here, but they didn't give me itemized quote...just a vague print out. S is another big name. Very thorough, itemized quote etc. I'm curious who you found to be cheapest. I have o e from B in sicklerville but the quote he emailed isn't what we discussed so I'm waiting to hear back. I decided what the heck, so co 4 which is very local to me (bhp) is coming Monday.

The havoc guys try to act like we aren't paying the 10k because it is financed.....yes we are, that is why we want the best price (not the guy here,he thought you only owed the 2500)


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

"I was told we need new water heater because once the house is more tightly sealed it needs the power vent on the water heater to vent properly up the exhaust."

Cindy,

I have never heard this. Perhaps you misunderstood. If you have a masonary chimney, you may need to get it lined if the furnace will no longer use it. Perhaps the contractor is suggesting using a power vent instead of lining the chimney. Lining the chiminey would be much cheaper than the price you were quoted for the hot water heater.

I don't think there are any forum rules about posting names of contractors.


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

He explained it that the exhaust wouldn't draw the proper draft to safely travel up the chimeny. Apparently sealing the attic akes the house too tight formproper draft of thenregular style water heater.in this case the chimney is metal just for the water heater and I believe it goes from the basement out thru the roof. I think the new system would go out the side of the crawl space which is next to the part of the basement where the the water heater is located. It is not connected to my fireplace chimney or my furnace chimney which is PVC. I may also need the added efficiency to qualify for the rebate.

My water heater is about 56 eff and is 8.5 years old. The rebate would sort of pay for it.


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

Most of the air leakage in a house is through the windows and doors. I have never heard that if you seal your attic you must change your hot water heater.

You are being sold all these items in order to qualify for the NJ Clean Energy program. You have to decide if this is a good deal for you or not.


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

nms21...while you're at it you should get the 50 gal water heater. At 3000 SF, I assume you have 4 Bedrooms..some day if you sell the 50 gal might be attractive. I sure do prefer having the extra in my house on those days we all want showers around the same time. I doubt it could be much extra $.

My quotes were from Hutchinson, P R Sanders,Bovio and Monday is Black HOrse Pike Plumbing and Heating. I sent BHP plumbing and heating one of the quotes from one of the first two, but I took out all the prices and names. I would like to see what a smaller outfit prices for the same equip. They all have A+ bbb ratings. I got them off the njcleanenergy website and all have done a good amount of jobs under the program.

One of them quoted me 13244 after all rebates for the Carrier Infinity 98 gas furnace and infinity 17 2-stage air eligible for the 1100 rebate. That was with a 50 gal direct vent hot water heater and attic sealing. I just don't think I need that hvac. Sounds like a "cadillac" system..I hope he emails me back with something more reasonable. When he was here I thought his would be one of the lower prices....but his quote is for different stuff!


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

hi cindy,

sorry for late posting..yes, i did have quote from h and bovio..h is too high..b is so far reasonable..if you've noticed one thing from all these contractos; they're making money on system, installation plus the 5k or 4k nj state rebate..they quote you so high and then deduct all rebates from quoate and at the end show you that you end up paying only 2500 or 3k out of your pocket..as if 10k loan is free and you don't have to pay back..they ask you to go for higher end system to qualify for rebates..but you pay more and save little..i'm kinda tired of this now..you can't trust anybody..all are after your money..don't bother too guide you nor do they care abt. our 10k plus project..still after almost one month of research and all quotes believe that will be better of with nj clean energy program if we get that 10k interest free loan for 10 yrs..

Thanks for your suggestion of 50 gal tank..will think abt. it..


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

I agree that even tough we are overcharged we do get some benefit, just that we aren't really getting ALL of the rebate savings. There is some paperwork involved, so I get it, to some degree.

Bovio had a better price in my home, on his notepad, but wrote me up and emailed me a fancier system. I'm waiting to see iif he responds to my email asking for more quotes.

Have you found anybody else?


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

@ cindy,

yes, did with hd, sears and 3 more found from angieslist. one quoted goodman which doesn't have good reviews. hd was trane, but all were almost at same price as bovio,JUST for system and installation. No nj clean energy program. So in my case am leaning towards bovio with carrier comfort as opposed to infinity they suggested..here's the models:

http://www.residential.carrier.com/products/furnaces/gas/performance95t.shtml

http://www.residential.carrier.com/products/acheatpumps/ac/comfort.shtml


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

EXACLTY what I am looking at...but Bovio so far has only quoted me the inifinity.

Are you doing the cleanenergy with BOvio, or just the hvac? I am so torn on this because apparently the air sealing and insulation are very good ideas to save $.

Can you email me your quote from Bovio? I will go in my profile and make sure the email is enabled. You should be able to click my user name and email me. Thanks!


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

ok. on my member page there is a little link to send me an email. Your page doesn't have one.


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RE: Pl.help to choose right HVAC system.

cindy,

i sent you an email..pl. check


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