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Help on Lennox unit choice

Posted by socalmom2008 (My Page) on
Wed, Jun 25, 08 at 12:55

I've been reading and learning a lot from this forum. We decided to replace our HVAC system and have been getting quotes from contracters.

We have decided upon a contracter and now need help figuring out which system to choose.

some basic info: We are in Southern California in an area that is typically about 10 degrees cooler than Palm Springs (i.e. when it's hot, it's VERY hot). I have a house from 1990 with huge, older windows that all need to be replaced with newer, low-E windows. There are a lot of windows. There are 5 people, 4 pets in the house. We have only one unit for our 2000 sq ft, 2 story home. There is one return register for the entire house, located downstairs in front of the stairs, catty corner to the front door of the house.

I am getting:

Lennox G60UHV60C-090X
Lennox Comfort TouchScreen TStat
EZ-Filter 2" rack

And this is what I'm deciding between:

Lennox XC14-048
w/ Lennox CX34-50/60 C (it says w/TXV, don't know if that's standard or not for that coil but I'm glad it's included)

$5695

or

Lennox XC16-048
w/ Lennox CC60D44 w/TXV

$6120
Upgrade options:
replace all ducting in attic add $920
replace all registers to shoemaker stle $175

We feel replacing all the ducting is crucial and important. The ducting was poorly designed to begin and with only one return and it being so close to the door newer, well designed ducting will help the upstairs cool better.

Other than that, we're not sure if the second unit is worth the upgrade cost. Electric rates are high so we try not to run the air except on the hottest days of the afternoon.

Do you feel it is worth the upgrade cost? Do both units have the same EER rating? How do they compare on ARI certificates?

Also, is it worth the expense for the shoemaker registers? Do they really improve air flow as they claim?

Thanks for any help!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Help on Lennox unit choice

1235455 Active Systems XC14 SERIES LENNOX INDUSTRIES, INC. XC14-048-230* CX34-62C+TDR G60UHV-60C-090* 49500 12.50 15.00 1 RCU-A-CB

1003907 Active Systems XC16 SERIES LENNOX INDUSTRIES, INC. XC16-048-230* CX34-62C*+TDR+TXV G60UHV-60C-090* 48000 12.00 16.00 1 RCU-A-CB

socalmom

verify the evap coil model for best efficiency. If you don't plan on running AC except on hottest days, then stay with the XC14. for best airflow and improved comfort, you need more than one return especially for upstairs. I would also look at a better filter-something like a 4-5" pleated media cabinet like Honeywell F200 or AprilAire. And finally, I want a stat like Honeywell VisionPro IAQ that controls var speed motor for better dehumidification in AC mode. BTW, pricing looks very reasonable. can't answer about the registers.

IMO


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RE: Help on Lennox unit choice

"verify the evap coil model for best efficiency. If you don't plan on running AC except on hottest days, then stay with the XC14. for best airflow and improved comfort, you need more than one return especially for upstairs. I would also look at a better filter-something like a 4-5" pleated media cabinet like Honeywell F200 or AprilAire. And finally, I want a stat like Honeywell VisionPro IAQ that controls var speed motor for better dehumidification in AC mode. BTW, pricing looks very reasonable. can't answer about the registers."
--- I agree 100% with tiger.

"We feel replacing all the ducting is crucial and important. The ducting was poorly designed to begin and with only one return and it being so close to the door newer, well designed ducting will help the upstairs cool better."
---Yes! Absolutely important to have proper ductwork and airflow, and this can really make a difference in comfort and efficiency. Definitely want more than one return for a 4 ton.

Both would make great systems. If you get the new ductwork, it's probably worth getting new registers where the installers can set the air "throw" in such a way that it cools the space better and counteracts the heat load. Verify "Lennox CC60D44 w/TXV" -- sounds like either a third-party coil or a wrong model number. It's important to get the sizing right. A properly-sized dual-stage unit (XC16) would be able to run on an efficient low stage to remove humidity and provide for more comfort.


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RE: Help on Lennox unit choice

Thanks for your quick responses!

We'd love to add a second return in the house but that would mean another $3-5K and losing half the closet in the guest room/ofice. We don't have money for that and we do need the closet space. So the one downstairs will have to do.

Am I reading the ARI specs right in that, if the same coil is used for either condenser, it will actually be more efficient with the XC14 than the XC16? The EER is better as is the BTUs, right?

Does the Lennox stat not have the capability of running the fan on low? Or do you recommend the Honeywell because it is better at this capabilities? We wanted a 2 speed fan because there are times we close the house up and turn the fan on low to clean the air(ex. wildfire days. I want a thermostat that can run the fan on low or high, whichever I choose.

Thank you for your help!


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RE: Help on Lennox unit choice

"We'd love to add a second return in the house but that would mean another $3-5K and losing half the closet in the guest room/ofice. We don't have money for that and we do need the closet space. So the one downstairs will have to do."

The I would at least add another upstairs. One return for 4 tons doesn't sound right. You'll need 1600 cfm of return air, and it would have to be a big return or it'll probably be loud. Balanced airflow is very important. Shouldn't be too hard if they're already replacing the ductwork in the attic. Ask your dealer what he thinks about adding another return since that's a lot of return airflow needed for 4 tons. I have 3 returns for my 3.5-ton system.

"Am I reading the ARI specs right in that, if the same coil is used for either condenser, it will actually be more efficient with the XC14 than the XC16? The EER is better as is the BTUs, right?"

Could be right. EER isn't everything. SEER is to be considered as well, unless you'll only use your A/C when it is 90+ degrees out (EER rating range). Different matchups will yield better results. That's good that you're checking the ARI directory--shows you're making an informed decision.

"Does the Lennox stat not have the capability of running the fan on low? Or do you recommend the Honeywell because it is better at this capabilities? We wanted a 2 speed fan because there are times we close the house up and turn the fan on low to clean the air(ex. wildfire days. I want a thermostat that can run the fan on low or high, whichever I choose."

The advantage of the IAQ is it's ability to slow down the v/s blower on demand to remove humidity. I don't know if Lennox's ComfortSense 7000 (is this the one you're looking at? Lennox has two touchscreen thermostats). has the ability to do this. About controlling constant fan speed, I'm pretty sure it can only run at one speed during constant fan (don't have Lennox's engineering handbook data in front of me so can't tell you for sure what speed it would run at). I do believe the Carrier Infinity has selectable constant fan speeds. One slow constant fan speed should be good enough for constant air circulation and filtration.

Hope this helps.


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RE: Help on Lennox unit choice

I'm looking for the same system, only a 5ton. Sounds like you got a good price. Who did you get the quotes from? I'm in socal in tustin.

thnx,
pj


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RE: Help on Lennox unit choice

Thanks, guys!

Based on your suggestions, we're bumping up the furnace, thermostat and air conditioner:

Lennox XL280UH-090V-48B 80% 2-stage variable speed furnace
Lennox XC21-048 (4 ton) 2-stage A/C
Lennox iComfort thermostat

It increases the cost of the job by $3,000. However, we're now getting a $1,000 rebate from Lennox, plus $250 in state tax credit and $400 rebate from the electric company. So really my cost only goes up $1350 for considerably better equipment.

Thanks again!


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RE: Help on Lennox unit choice

Thanks, guys!

Based on your suggestions, we're bumping up the furnace, thermostat and air conditioner:

Lennox XL280UH-090V-48B 80% 2-stage variable speed furnace
Lennox XC21-048 (4 ton) 2-stage A/C
Lennox iComfort thermostat

It increases the cost of the job by $3,000. However, we're now getting a $1,000 rebate from Lennox, plus $250 in state tax credit and $400 rebate from the electric company. So really my cost only goes up $1350 for considerably better equipment.

Thanks again!


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