Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
shortty_98

Need help with HVAC decision

shortty_98
10 years ago

Residence is 1750 sq ft, 2 story cape cod with full basement northeast of Philadelphia.

Looking into replacing 26 year old Whirlpool gas furnace 75k 90% Aflue model
NUGK075DG01, and 2.5 ton Whirlpool condenser model NCAFA29VB02. It has
been (and still is) a great unit. I would like to replace with a unit that lasts as long
and is as trouble free.

I am in the process of cleaning / sealing ducts. In cooling mode the upstairs air exiting the registors are 3-5 degree warmer.These ducts go up an inside wall and across the ceiling. They are also the longest runs. Currently these ducts have a 90 degree transition from 7 inch round to 7 inch oval via flexible nsulated duct. I plan on replacing with a metal 7 inch oval to round elbow duct.

Whole House Load Calulator
TD: Cool 16 Heat 59 Sq. ft. - types 1 and 2 shading Sq. ft.- types 1 and 2 shading Sq. ft.- types 1 and 2 Sq. ft.
Outside Wall: NE & NW 1: 528 2: 410 Windows x 1: 109 2: 45 Glass Doors x 1: 2: Doors 24
Outside Wall: SE & SW 1: 528 2: 450 Windows x 1: 45 2: 15 Glass Doors x 1: 2: Doors
Floor - (linear ft. if slab) 1: 1088 2: 700
Number of Appliances 2
Number of People 4 Fresh air recommended: 49cfm --> CFM 100
Conditioned - Sq. ft.: 1750 Cubic. Ft.: 14000 Construction:good Duct system:
Calculate Load
Total Btu's Cooling 28432 Sensible Load 24204 Latent Load 4228 Total Btu's Heating 68089


Estimate 1
All options include new lineset, condensate pump, small bypass humidifier, humidistat mount, media air cleaner cabinet and filters

Option 1 Carrier Condenser 24ABB330 2.5 ton 13 SEER, coil CNVP3617, gas furnace 92.1% Aflue 75K Btu output 59SC2B080S1716, Carrier Edge thermostat. 10 year parts, 5 year labor, lifetime heat exchanger, 10 year compressor.
$7,969

Option 2 Carrier Condenser 24ABC630 2.5 ton 13 SEER, coil CNVP3617, gas furnace 96.2% Aflue 78K high stage, 50K low stage 59TP5A080E1716, Carrier Edge thermostat. 10 year parts, 5 year labor, lifetime heat exchanger, 10 year compressor.
$ 8,915 EAP rebate $500 Final $ 8,415. Also qualifies for $300 PECO rebate, federal tax $300.

Option 3 Carrier Condenser 24ANB630 2.5 ton 13 SEER, coil CNVP3617, gas furnace 96.2% Aflue 78K high stage, 50K low stage 59TN6A080E1714, Carrier Edge thermostat. 10 year parts, 5 year labor, lifetime heat exchanger, 10 year compressor. Carrier Infinity Controller Model SYSTX thermostat 10 year parts, 10 year labor, lifetime heat exchanger, 10 year compressor.
$ 10,127 EAP rebate $500 Final $ 9,627. Also qualifies for $300 PECO rebate, federal tax $300.

Estimate 2
Carrier 1 Stage/ ECM blower 96.5%AFUE Gas Furnace (59SP5A080E17-16) set on blocks and a new media air filter on the return drop. Install a new Aprilaire bypass humidifier on the return drop, Carrier N-Coil (CNPVP3117ALA) ,Honeywell Digital Set back thermostat (PRO6000) , Carrier 16 Seer AC condenser will be placed on a new condenser pad with a gravel base, new copper line set between the condenser and the new N Coil (on top of the furnace). ARHI# 4744732 (according to ARHI# 4744732 condenser would be model 24ABC630A**30)
Warranties are as Follows: 1-Year Parts and Labor
2-5-Year Carrier Limited Parts Warranty (No Labor)
6-10-Yr Extended Warranty on Carrier Parts w/Customer Registration within 90 days of install
Price: ($7,938.00)

This installation qualifies as a qualified system for the federal tax credit of up to $500.00 cap allowance. This installation also qualifies for the PECO Smart Home A/C Rebate of $300.00. Federal Tax Credit: $50.00 advanced blower +$150.00 95% furnace +$300.00 16 SEER AC = $500.00 total cap
Peco Rebate: $300.00 95% furnace + $300.00 16 SEER AC = $600.00 total
Total Credit and/or Rebate: $1,100.00

Estimate 3
Option 1 Carrier Perfomance Series 95% gas fired furnace 59SP5A008E17-16 with ECM motor, one Carrier Comfort Series 16 Seer 2.5 ton condenser 24ABC630 with matching air handler CNVP3117, digital thermostat. Includes 4" Media cabinet, new line set.
10 year limited manufacturers warranty on parts on furnace, A/C, and coil.
$ 6, 025.
Rebates: $ 300 PECO Rebate A/C, $300 PECO gas, $100 PECO fan $500 Fed tax credit
$6,025 - 300 - 300 - 100 - 500 = $4,825

$600 for 5 years labor warranty on furnace, condenser, and coil. (must sign up for yearly maintenace at additional $$)
$1100 for 10 years labor warranty on furnace, condenser, and coil.(must sign up for yearly maintenace at additional $$)

Option 2 Same as above but upgrade condenser to Carrier Performance series 24ACC630.
Add + $600 .

Option 3 Upgrade to Infinity 96% two stage variable speed furnace 59TN6A080V17-14.
Add $600 - Additional instant rebate $100 Carrier cool cash.

I have a contractor that wants to estimate for a Rheem system. Should I consider or stick with Carrier?
Carrier coil should I make sure aluminum coil ALA is speced, ie CNPVP3117ALA ?
First estimate speced coil CNVP3617, said it was to get higher SEER...if so how much at what cost?
Third estimate seems to have done best job on finding rebates, and best price.
Should I consider labor warranty?
Comments on Aprilaire bypass humidifier vs Carrier. From what I read its best to install on return drop.
Honeywell Digital Set back thermostat (PRO6000) vs Carrier Edge?
Estimate 3, I need to get specs on digital thermostat, especially if upgrade to Inifinity, also need price spec on humidifier.

Appreciate any / all comments on selecting a replacement system.
Is it better to do now or wait till fall?

Comments (9)

  • mike_home
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You have three estimates each with several options. Do you like any of these contractors? That is the most important decision you will make. Rheem equipment is also good.

    The Carrier ALA coil is the newest version. The ATA version is also acceptable. You will find that a system can use several sizes of coils. It is fairly common to size the coil larger than the condenser.

    If you plan to live in the house for 10 years then I suggest getting the Carrier labor warranty. Do not be roped into having to any maintenance contracts.

    If you get Carrier equipment then it is best to get the appropriate Carrier thermostat.

    The best time to get new HVAC equipment is fall and spring. This is when business slows down and contractors are not over worked. You get a little better pricing and hopefully a better installation.

  • shortty_98
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mike :

    Thanks for your reply.

    They all seemed like they would do a good job. Who would do the best installation is a harder question. All basically asked same questions about existing system, comfort issues, etc. All three are Carrier Factory Authorized dealers and have Carrier Presidents awards.

    Is the Carrier Performance series 24ACC630 worth the $600 upgrade. A little quieter, better construction, pressure switches. What about the upgrade to Infinity 96% two stage variable speed furnace 59TN6A080V17-14 for $600?

    Are the two stage furnaces as reliable as single stage ones? The ECM blowers are they as reliable as the old PSC ones.

    As far as maintenance for labor, estimate 1 contract states maintenance contract is required and that looks like their company's. Estimate three requires maintenance to get labor warranty. I need to check if they will provide a Carrier 10 year labor warranty without a maintenance contract. How much should a 10 year labor contract cost $ 700 - 1000 ?

  • mike_home
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If you are buying Carrier equipment, then it is best to buy from a factory authorized dealer. They are supposed to install the equipment to your satisfaction or remove it and refund your money. They should also have better training than the typical Carrier dealer.

    The Comfort series is Carrier's entry level product. I would be a good idea to upgrade to the Performance equipment. It is a little better built and quieter.

    I think upgrading to the 2-stage Infinity furnace is expensive, but worth the money in my opinion. I hope your upgrade price includes the Infinity controller. The ECM motor is reliable, but is expensive to replace if it ever goes bad.

    If you get a labor warranty get it through Carrier. I have the Carrier warranty and I am not forced to have maintenance. But you do have to take care of your equipment and not abuse it. I suggest having maintenance done once a year. You should not pay more than 10% of the total price for the labor warranty. You are already covered by a 10 year parts warranty.

  • tigerdunes
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would want the heating load calcs run again. I question yours as being too high.

    IMO

  • mike_home
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The cooling load looks reasonable. I question the heating load. If it is accurate it means your current furnace is undersized.

  • shortty_98
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I redid load calculation.Design Indoor Cooling Temp. :75°F, Design Indoor Heating Temp. :76° F, Design Outdoor Cooling Temp. 90:° F,Temp. Difference Cooling :15°F Area: Philadelphia Northeast Airport, PA Temp. Difference Heating :63° F, Indoor Humidity: 50 Grains difference: 38

    Totals Cooling Btu's 26205, Sensible Load 21977, Latent Load 4228, Total Btu's Heating 43273

    FYI on a 5-10 degree day heater cycles on and off and runs approximately 45 minutes out of the hour, Current system 90 % of 75K equals 67.5K.

  • mike_home
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Heat loss calculations are usually done with an indoor winter temperature of 72 degrees. Do you keep the temperature at 76 in the winter?

  • tigerdunes
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I strongly suspect a 60 KBTU high eff furnace with a 2 1/2 ton AC condenser would be more than adequate.

    IMO

  • shortty_98
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Reran load calc with indoor temp at 72... total Btu's needed is 41214. Only time I have temp at 76 is when parents visit from FL.

    If I were to heat my finished basement how should I estimate the heat load.. It is below grade, typically in mid 60's in winter, solid concrete walls with one inch gap between them and 2 x 4 .5 inch sheetrock walls with R13 insulation,ceiling is accoustical tile about 7' 3" in height. 1060 sq ft, 7585 cubic feet.