What model furnace? That's a part of the matching components.

IMO

Sorry about that. Its a Trane XV80. Model Number is TUD2C100A9V5VB.

It is a match but does not meet the qualifying standard for the Fed Tax Credit.

5867528 Active Systems XR16 TRANE 4TTR6042B1 4TXCC049BC3 *UD2C100A9V5 40000 12.50 15.00 1 RCU-A-CB 323

IMO

thank you for the follow up. Is it not qualifying because of the low efficiency of the furnace? I live in southern Virginia (Norfolk area) and have never had an issue with my gas heating bills in the winter so I figured the payoff for a higher efficiency furnace would not balance the cost of getting one.

I was actually quoted for a XR15 but the installers showed up today with a XR16. I am not paying any more, but wanted to make sure they werent trying to match the XR15 and not the XR16.

The problem with the tax credit is not meeting the 16 SEER/13 EER threshold, a weakness with Trane.

What is your location?

IMO

I am just outside of Norfolk VA.

What type of residence do you have? Condo or Sgl family residence?

Size living area?

IMO

I live in a two story house. 2300 sq feet living space. Currently only 1 14 inch return at the top of the stairs, but I have contracted to have another return installed since my air flow is not adequate. The HVAC company agrees and they are putting in another return to get my airflow moving. I am also getting a Trane perfect fit 5" media filter installed also while I am getting the unit changed. They are running new lineset and putting in all new stuff. My furnace is in the attic since there is no basement. I am also having them move the outside unit around to the side of my house so it is 1. In the shade and 2. So it is not right outside my back door so I can put in a back patio.

I think that furnace is way oversized for your home. Ask for a load calculation both heating and cooling.

Look at following XV80 in 80 KBTU size with 4 ton rated blower.

TUD2C080B9V4VA 40 21.0 28 41,600/64,000 80

IMO

ChiefM,

Submariner or target rider?

Tiger,
When I was given the estimate with the equipment listed I asked if both units were the right size for my home. I was assured that they did the load measurements and calculations and it is the equipment recommended. Is there a big issue if the furnace they put in is a little oversized? Is it going to heat the house too fast or have any issues with how the home feels (kind of like the cooling if the unit is too big or too small)? I appreciate the help so far!

Saltidawg,

I am aviation. I work with H60 helicopters.

Oversizing is never good. I would want to see a load calculation in writing especially for heating with your design temperatures both inside thermostat setting and outside temperature. You will be surprised at the results. Plus it will save you on operating costs. Of course that furnace requires a true two stage thermostat for best operation. What thermostat has dealer quoted?

BTW, what size and efficiency furnace will you be replacing?

Post back.

IMO

The thermostat is a Honeywell Vision Pro TH8000 series.

The old furnace is contractor grade 80% efficiency and 100 BTUH (from what I can make out on the unit).

I have 2 neighbors with similar constructed houses that have the same XV80 at 100 BTUH in their house and they say it works fine.

I wasnt really looking for more efficient because my gas bills arent ever high and I the payback would of been pretty long so I decided to keep the same efficiency and save a little money up front.

This post was edited by ChiefM on Tue, Jun 25, 13 at 8:12

Don't misunderstand. I am not saying it won't work. Why be oversized if you don't need it? That's the point especially when energy costs are only likely to increase. And an 80% eff furnace is really a dinosaur. Have you considered a HP to leverage against an 80% eff furnace? Depends on your electric rate vs nat gas rate. Post your rates if interested and I will run a down and dirty fuel comparison for your review. Still believe I am correct about the furnace sizing.

IMO

Again, not complaining with what you are telling me. To be honest, when I have been reserching things I came across this forum and saw a lot of things you answered and thought you have been very helpful. When you responded to my post I was pretty happy with it because I knew you would give it to me straight and without a lot of BS.

Is that thermostat a decent one? I saw you post alot recommending the HW IAQ, but is the one I listed adequate for my needs?

Here are those rates you asked about. The gas was tricky to figure out so I posted the rates from my bill:

Electric is 0.117 KWH (after all charges and stuff averaged)
Gas is Distribution Service 9 Ccf at $0.26530 per Ccf & Natural Gas Supply Service 9 Ccf at $0.83930 per Ccf.

The HW VP IAQ is preferred. It is a true two stage thermostat plus it has "dehumidify on demand" feature.

As to fuel comparison. Here are my results. To be used as a guide only.

Cost per 100,000 btu of useable heat
Electric baseboard: $3.09
Heat pump: $1.25
Natural gas: $1.33

The HP has a small operating cost advantage. However, not enough to justify a HP for a DF system.

I would insist on a load calculation for heating as part of any purchase. In fact you could do it yourself if interested. Cost, your time and $49.

IMO

Hmm, now you got the wheels turning. How would I go about doing my own load calculation?

I will also have to look into the IAQ compared to the one they want to install with my system.

As to thermostat selection, you want a true two stage thermostat that controls the staging based on demand need, not by timer on control board that will always time out to high stage whether it is needed or not. A big deal in my book.

Load calculation site with link below.

IMO

Here is a link that might be useful: HVAC Calc Software for Residential

I agree with tiger about the equipment sizing and the need to see that an actual Manual J load calculation was done. The 100k furnace for 2300 square feet is what stands out the most to me. As said, oversizing is not good. The XV80 is a 2-stage model, but to really get the comfort benefits 2-stage equipment has to offer, the system needs to be sized properly. Trane does make an 80k XV80 model with a 4-ton blower. Are they adding another 14" return? Either way, sounds like the 100k furnace with a 5 ton blower (especially if dipswitches aren't adjusted as they absolutely should be) will be trying to move a lot more air than the duct system is capable of handling, lowering efficiency and performance. While Trane is great equipment when installed properly, I would definitely focus on the ductwork and equipment sizing. A Manual J needs to be done. There are all sorts of "calculations" that can be done, but a proper load calculation will set you in the right direction and likely reveal a grossly oversized furnace and possibly oversized a/c as well. If you had an older 3.5 ton system previously with a single 14" flex return, it is doubtful you were getting close to the full output capacity. Sadly, many oversized systems get installed each day. And many of them will work satisfactorially to the homeowner's expectations who may not know what benefits a properly sized system provides in terms of comfort and energy savings.

This post was edited by ryanhughes on Tue, Jun 25, 13 at 10:25

Thanks for the link! Also, thanks for all the feedback, it really does help!

Good advice by Ryan.

Always good to discuss ductwork system, both size and design, as well as adequate return on each floor for best air flow and comfort. Probably the most overlooked and disregarded aspect of new/replacement installs.

Any hot/cold spots in home?

I always recommend a good pleated filter media cabinet.

Ryan, thank you for the feedback as well. I will get with the company and see if I can look at the calculations that they came up to size my system the way they are recommending. I currently have 1 return at the the stop of my stair case and nothing else (14 inch). They are going to be installing another 14 inch return because my current air flow is not cutting it.
I will be forwarding all these items you have both mentioned to the HVAC company and see what they say. Again, thanks for all the help.

I am getting the perfect fit 5" media filter installed with the new system. I think there arent really hot or cold spots other than what is typical of a 2 story home with a finished room over the garage. In the winter, the downstairs is colder than upstairs, and usually the downstairs is fine in the summer. I do get a lot better air flow from my supplies on the 2nd floor so thats why I was concerned with inadaquate returns because I dont think my current system is moving the right amount of air. The HVAC company agreed after doing his walk through that why I am getting the 2nd return installed. I am hoping it helps with my airflow to my first floor.